Pats Seem to be Focusing on a QB

Crimson Warrior

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It depends on the context. I have no issue with building a board and the o-line coach advocating for Alt to be the top OL. I do have an issue with anyone who watched the offense last year and thinks OT is a bigger need than WR AND think Alt is a better prospect than MHJ.

Also, the more I think on it, if you aren't comfortable with flipping PJJ to the LT spot, you probably crapped the bed by trading up for him in round 1 last year.

So this.

This times 1,000,0000.
 

Crimson Warrior

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But why wouldn't the O-line coach argue for more help there?

Because the Oline was road-grading opposing defenses at the end of last year?

How in the heck were we running for 200 yards a game against good defenses like SF if our O-line wasn't killing it in terms of run blocking QuebecCard?
 

Cardiac

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Because the Oline was road-grading opposing defenses at the end of last year?

How in the heck were we running for 200 yards a game against good defenses like SF if our O-line wasn't killing it in terms of run blocking QuebecCard?
It was very encouraging and fun to watch the run game, especially at the end of the season. Oline gelling and KM made a big difference.
Now we have lost Hump so if that isn't addressed this offseason then the entire offense will suffer.
 

Crimson Warrior

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It was very encouraging and fun to watch the run game, especially at the end of the season. Oline gelling and KM made a big difference.
Now we have lost Hump so if that isn't addressed this offseason then the entire offense will suffer.

And that's 100% fair Cardiac.

But DJ was one of five starters on that unit. One of seven players that got significant reps for that group in 2023.

And it's debatable, but he was maybe our 3rd best offensive lineman (behind PJJ and Will H) last year, with Frodo pushing him for the #3 spot by the end of year. Plus we have PJJ all warmed up and ready to go at LT for 2024.

So while I hated to see The Captain get hurt, in my opinion, his injury does not create a hole like the huge gaping one we have at WR1. And like Chopper said, is Alt really the same level prospect as MJH? In terms of sheer talent?

Eh, whatever. If we draft Alt at 4, I'll be pissed, but it won't be the end of the world as long as he's really good. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
 

Cardiac

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And that's 100% fair Cardiac.

But DJ was one of five starters on that unit. One of seven players that got significant reps for that group in 2023.

And it's debatable, but he was maybe our 3rd best offensive lineman (behind PJJ and Will H) last year, with Frodo pushing him for the #3 spot by the end of year. Plus we have PJJ all warmed up and ready to go at LT for 2024.

So while I hated to see The Captain get hurt, in my opinion, his injury does not create a hole like the huge gaping one we have at WR1. And like Chopper said, is Alt really the same level prospect as MJH? In terms of sheer talent?

Eh, whatever. If we draft Alt at 4, I'll be pissed, but it won't be the end of the world as long as he's really good. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
I don't think you give Hump enough credit but that's just mho. I've moved off taking Alt at 4 but do believe we need to do something significant to address the OT position.

I do agree that the WR position is a huge need so I would be good with MHJ at 4.
 
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Harry

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Which coaches?

Petzing and the receivers coach, I can imagine. But why wouldn't the O-line coach argue for more help there?
I’m fairly sure the LB coach wasn’t asking for Harrison either. I had a solid source and did not feel he needed to name names. I’m sure he didn’t mean all the coaches.
 

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Because the Oline was road-grading opposing defenses at the end of last year?

How in the heck were we running for 200 yards a game against good defenses like SF if our O-line wasn't killing it in terms of run blocking QuebecCard?

So the O-line coach who's just lost his starting LT would be advocating for a w/o...

OK... fine.
 

Chopper0080

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Who we drafted last year isn't relevant. Coaches look at players available and pound the table for who they want. Monti has to listen then buy the groceries he thinks help the team the most.
This draft has deep quality at both OT and WR...we should get at least one of each in our top three picks .
I would double up on WR...
But drafting Alt doesn't reflect poorly on the PJ pick at all. We needed an OT upgrade last year... preferably one who could replace Hump at LT in a couple years...so we picked him.
But now we are in the same situation of needing an OT...and the prospects available are better than they were last year....we need a LT now...not in a couple years.
You pick the best players for your team from the talent available
Continuing to have to draft the same position because you miss on players in the draft is relevant. Monti traded up into the top 10 for PJJ and made him the 1st OT off the board. If he didn't believe in him as a future LT, he messed up. Monti should have had a huge grade on him to make that move. They gave up the 34th pick in the draft to do it. Alt might be a better prospect than PJJ (I think he is) but the grade difference should be minimal, and PJJ is now a known quantity.

And as I said, if Monti has a higher grade on Alt than he does on MHJ, that is a HUGE red flag. If Monti feels like OT is a bigger issue than WR, that is a HUGE red flag. Those are just two things I feel are not even really debatable.

Finally, all of your comments about need, all of them fit even more when discussing WR.
 

bankybruce

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If you mean WR, yes, it is reasonable for a OL coach to advocate for a WR over an OL. Top WRs get open faster, that is a huge help for OL.
The OL doesn't want to block longer than they have to. More opportunities for a mistake, no matter how good the OL is.
 

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If you mean WR, yes, it is reasonable for a OL coach to advocate for a WR over an OL. Top WRs get open faster, that is a huge help for OL.

Reasonable, as in within reason, sure.

But the case in point is the Cards' O-line coach, having lost his starting LT, advocating for a WR.

I'll say doubtful unless you've got a source.

JOB one is protecting the CARDS' most crucial asset, KM.
 

Crimson Warrior

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So the O-line coach who's just lost his starting LT would be advocating for a w/o...

OK... fine.

Of course we see your point QC!

But what if the plan is to move Paris "Pancake" Johnson to LT, and MO has a plan to fill the hole at RT?

Would our OL coach (Klayton Adams) still pound the table for Alt at 4?

Eh, you may be right and I guess we'll see in about 2 1/2 months! :)
 

Chopper0080

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Good O-lines make pedestrian wide receivers good... not vice-versa, as a rule, I would suggest.
There is a symbiotic relationship between OL, QB, and WR. I also feel it is reasonable to believe that WR and OL have equal priority. I personally feel after this last season, the OL outperformed the WR room by a pretty clear margin. IMO, WR shows the bigger need and has the better prospect. I think an OL coach who understands team dynamics would agree.
 

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Of course we see your point QC!

But what if the plan is to move Paris "Pancake" Johnson to LT, and MO has a plan to fill the hole at RT?

Would our OL coach (Klayton Adams) still pound the table for Alt at 4?

Eh, you may be right and I guess we'll see in about 2 1/2 months! :)

Of course, if we answer the TACKLE questions before the draft, Adams shouldn't have an issue with selecting WR at four.

And whether at #4 or beyond, I'm fairly certain that MO will give Adams some reinforcement in the draft.

P.S. I favour MHJ at #4 or a trade-down.
 

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There is a symbiotic relationship between OL, QB, and WR. I also feel it is reasonable to believe that WR and OL have equal priority. I personally feel after this last season, the OL outperformed the WR room by a pretty clear margin. IMO, WR shows the bigger need and has the better prospect. I think an OL coach who understands team dynamics would agree.

The O-line outperformed the WR room with DJ, and we don't know how the tackle dilemma will be resolved at this point.

I favour MHJ at #4 because he's arguably the best talent in this draft. I would say ALT if he graded higher because, as you say, they're of equal priority for the CARDS this offseason.

If MHJ is off the board, my second choice is a trade-down, which would answer both O-line and WR needs with lesser-graded talents in round #1 and beyond.

If there is no offer for #4... I take ALT.
 

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Sad that you think it's sad.

Waiting for this one line to become lore and see it used to beat Monti up repeatedly until the draft.

I mean, teams are nowhere near finished with their scouting and big boards yet and I'd be amazed if anyone anywhere is leaning in any direction on anything regarding the draft.

And I don't see why anyone would be pounding the table for OT at #4 in a class thought to have 8 first round worthy tackles and we pick again at #27.
 

oaken1

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There is a symbiotic relationship between OL, QB, and WR. I also feel it is reasonable to believe that WR and OL have equal priority. I personally feel after this last season, the OL outperformed the WR room by a pretty clear margin. IMO, WR shows the bigger need and has the better prospect. I think an OL coach who understands team dynamics would agree.
thats a fair take. I just dont see WR as the "Bigger" need. Mostly because we all wanted a LG before our LT went down.. so basically we are down an entire left side...and when faced with that you plug in the premium piece if you can.
MHJ is the sexy pick and I am fully onboard with him being the guy at 4 if he is available. But im fine with picking Alt if Harrison is gone.
 

kerouac9

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thats a fair take. I just dont see WR as the "Bigger" need. Mostly because we all wanted a LG before our LT went down.. so basically we are down an entire left side...and when faced with that you plug in the premium piece if you can.
MHJ is the sexy pick and I am fully onboard with him being the guy at 4 if he is available. But im fine with picking Alt if Harrison is gone.
So where does that put Paris Johnson, Jr? A top 10 pick stuck at right tackle and the team just told him they'd rather roll the dice with a rookie than go with him at the more valuable position.

From an overall talent perspective you're arguably better off with Alt-PJJ-WR TBD, but from a roster management perspective you're definitely better off moving PJJ over to LT and going with a later pick at RT and either trading back to get Odunze/Nabers.

The Captain's injury accelerated PJJ's timeline by a year or two, but in Week 15 no one was seriously considering Joe Alt with our first round pick. EDIT: Except maybe me. I probably did at some point say PJJ is a RT and won't be around in 2029; we should probably maximize the OL and slot Alt at LG for a year.
 

oaken1

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So where does that put Paris Johnson, Jr? A top 10 pick stuck at right tackle and the team just told him they'd rather roll the dice with a rookie than go with him at the more valuable position.

From an overall talent perspective you're arguably better off with Alt-PJJ-WR TBD, but from a roster management perspective you're definitely better off moving PJJ over to LT and going with a later pick at RT and either trading back to get Odunze/Nabers.

The Captain's injury accelerated PJJ's timeline by a year or two, but in Week 15 no one was seriously considering Joe Alt with our first round pick. EDIT: Except maybe me. I probably did at some point say PJJ is a RT and won't be around in 2029; we should probably maximize the OL and slot Alt at LG for a year.
I agree with that premise. But injuries change things. its unfortunate and it sets us back but IMO there are a couple guys who are better LT prospects than PJ so if we have to draft an OT upgrading is better than staying static.

Im on the books as stating that IMO Mims is going to be the best OT from this draft..if we got Harrison at 4 and Mims at 27 I would be thrilled... but even with his injury I keep seeing him mocked between 12 and 22...I would prefer that scenario because I would also like to get a LG in round three...and while I aint totally against starting 2 rookies,...I certainly dont want them right next to each other....
I mean hell, it would be sweet if next year we started....PJ, Beebe,Frodo, Hernandez, Mims...might take a half season to gel but that would give us the best oline we have had in decades.
 
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Harry

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Waiting for this one line to become lore and see it used to beat Monti up repeatedly until the draft.

I mean, teams are nowhere near finished with their scouting and big boards yet and I'd be amazed if anyone anywhere is leaning in any direction on anything regarding the draft.

And I don't see why anyone would be pounding the table for OT at #4 in a class thought to have 8 first round worthy tackles and we pick again at #27.
Most teams are already sorting players and focusing on the top 100 intensely with their top scouts. As to identifying a specific player, I agree. However draft philosophy is a main topic of discussion. Weighing whether to strengthen the trenches or add scoring weapons is certsinly being considered. As to an OT at #4, I think it more likely those desiring an OT are discussing competency of Johnson at LT and where could the Cards safely move down to if the opportunity presents assuming they’re focused on one of the top 2 OTs. There may be 8 high quality OTs in the draft, but they’re not all rated equally.
 

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I don't think it is a HUGE red flag at
The O-line outperformed the WR room with DJ, and we don't know how the tackle dilemma will be resolved at this point.

I favour MHJ at #4 because he's arguably the best talent in this draft. I would say ALT if he graded higher because, as you say, they're of equal priority for the CARDS this offseason.

If MHJ is off the board, my second choice is a trade-down, which would answer both O-line and WR needs with lesser-graded talents in round #1 and beyond.

If there is no offer for #4... I take ALT.
This!!!
 

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I spent 30 years of my life working for an OH based company. I’ve met hundreds, if not thousands if diehard Buckeye fans over those 30 years. There are many of them that think MHJ is the best to ever come out of OSU. EVER. If he’s there at 4, you flat out sprint to the podium and select him.
 

CardNots

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I spent 30 years of my life working for an OH based company. I’ve met hundreds, if not thousands if diehard Buckeye fans over those 30 years. There are many of them that think MHJ is the best to ever come out of OSU. EVER. If he’s there at 4, you flat out sprint to the podium and select him.
Funny, I don’t even trust what our fans think…
 
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