No Need to Draft a QB?

[Crimson Warrior]

Lot's of #1 WR's have been drafted...just not by us.

It's not a WR problem its an us problem.

I guess that makes sense.

In any event, I think we have to go WR with our first pick and so I hope Monti nails it. Just absolutely crushes the pick. HOF'er.

 

[BritCard]

Is it though?

Seventeen players are on pace for over 1100 receiving yards this year. A lot of teams have two WRs that could qualify as stud wideouts (San Francisco and Miami to name two; you could make the argument for Philly and Cincy, also).

I'm willing to be patient with my guy Michael Wilson, but his trajectory over the past month has not been great. We'll likely use one of our top three picks on a player at the WR position, but really, really good wideout prospects come out every year and are often immediately productive.

Feel the same about Wilson as McBride last year. His lack of yards is more scheme and play call related than talent. Highly confident he's going to be very good.

He doesn't seem to get many play calls where he's the first read, that's often McBride and Brown. And it's not often we get to the 3rd read.

Need more play calls where he's the primary.

 

[Proximo]

Hollywood is on pace for 798 yards… in a 17 game season no less. And before you go Dobbs on me, Dobbs doesn’t seem to have any problem finding WRd
And putting up big numbers in Minnesota.

He’s never been anything close to a 1 receiver or even a borderline 1 and paying him anything close to a 1 will be a terrible allocation of crucial cap dollars needed to upgrade so many areas of this team, namely on the defense.

I'm going to go Dobbs on you, because I saw a lot of his game yesterday and he still stinks throwing it downfield. He had one throw yesterday where he threw into triple coverage and miraculously got the pass completion when tipped for 30 yards. Most of his stats yesterday were from rollouts and to his tight end, not to receivers streaking down field.

Hollywood has had a 1000 yard season in his career.
He 100% was Lamar Jackson's number 1 receiver, and he was the Cards number 1 receiver - and was top 5 in yards - at the beginning of 2022.

I fully expect his numbers to go up with Murray.

Again I don't want him as a number 1 - I want him as a top tier #2, and for that I would pay him 15 million a year.

 

[Proximo]

Feel the same about Wilson as McBride last year. His lack of yards is more scheme and play call related than talent. Highly confident he's going to be very good.

He doesn't seem to get many play calls where he's the first read, that's often McBride and Brown. And it's not often we get to the 3rd read.

Need more play calls where he's the primary.

I like Wilson as a possession receiver, but by no means do I think he can be a #1.

He's just to slow. I don't think it's fair to compare him to McBride, because McBride does possess good athleticism that was not being utilized.

 

[SoonerLou]

Yeah I thought it was pretty clear live as McBride had beat his man and was looking back for the ball to take it in stride and score a TD, then had to slam on the brakes and make a play.

Was an underrated play by McBride. To look back and find the ball and almost instantly judge where it's dropping, and then to drop his weight, turn back and grab it low. That was a top class play.

Wonder if thats a timing issue or he's just never (in 2 years) had to throw a deep ball like that to him. So he underestimated his speed.

 

[Russ Smith]

It was his best throw, more a wow catch than a wow throw for me but his best throw for sure.

As I said, happy with the performance but I need to see more accuracy downfield first. There were some others shots later in the game, I recall one to Rondale for example, that was nowhere close to catchable.

That one confused me if you watched the replay it was clearly illegal contact. The announcers were talking about PI but it wasn't PI, he bumped/grabbed Rondale when he did a double move and it was right then that Kyler threw the ball. So I completely get why they didn't connect, Kyler threw it not knowing the DB was going to impede Rondale. But then Rondale almost turned around looking for the ball and flailing to try and draw a call. So the throw looked much worse than it was because of the contact, which wasn't called, but I also again wonder about Rondale's ability to track balls in the air. The end result was a bad throw but again if that guy doesn't bump Rondale when he realized he was beaten, I bet the throw is much closer to him.

 

[Harry]

That one confused me if you watched the replay it was clearly illegal contact. The announcers were talking about PI but it wasn't PI, he bumped/grabbed Rondale when he did a double move and it was right then that Kyler threw the ball. So I completely get why they didn't connect, Kyler threw it not knowing the DB was going to impede Rondale. But then Rondale almost turned around looking for the ball and flailing to try and draw a call. So the throw looked much worse than it was because of the contact, which wasn't called, but I also again wonder about Rondale's ability to track balls in the air. The end result was a bad throw but again if that guy doesn't bump Rondale when he realized he was beaten, I bet the throw is much closer to him.

They should change that rule. If the contact was on a pass thrown so far from the route (like out of bounds) or absurdly high, it should be ignored like an uncatchable pass is when there’s pass interference.

 

[DaHilg]

I feel like the o-line gets a bad rap. LG is an issue but past that...I think it is mostly ok.

It’s a bad Oline… Hump is bad. Not even average anymore but bad. The fandom and pro bowls (meaningless) keep people’s minds dreaming

 

[ajcardfan]

I like Wilson as a possession receiver, but by no means do I think he can be a #1.

He's just to slow. I don't think it's fair to compare him to McBride, because McBride does possess good athleticism that was not being utilized.

I agree. Wilson has been a bit of a pleasant surprise but McBride was the superior prospect from the get go.

 

[bankybruce]

That was 100 percent an underthrow as he had space and was open for an unopposed TD if the ball is thrown correctly. It also wasn't a bad play regardless of the misplaced throw because it did go where McBride could make a play on it.

Nope, go to the 1:07 mark and McBride said he ran the route wrong and had to come back to it. He went over his defender instead of under. Kyler threw to where he was supposed to be.

Trey McBride Postgame Press Conference: Week 10 vs Atlanta Falcons

Cardinals TE Trey McBride speaks with the media following the Cardinals 25-23 win over the Atlanta Falcons Week 10 of the 2023 NFL season

www.azcardinals.com

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nope, go to the 1:07 mark and McBride said he ran the route wrong and had to come back to it. He went over his defender instead of under. Kyler threw to where he was supposed to be.

Trey McBride Postgame Press Conference: Week 10 vs Atlanta Falcons

Cardinals TE Trey McBride speaks with the media following the Cardinals 25-23 win over the Atlanta Falcons Week 10 of the 2023 NFL season

www.azcardinals.com

That’s not an accurate summary. He didn’t say he ran the “wrong” route. He said he ran it differently than he had earlier because the defender was not allowing him to cross his face. Kyler definitely underthrew that.

 

[bankybruce]

That’s not an accurate summary. He didn’t say he ran the “wrong” route. He said he ran it differently than he had earlier because the defender was not allowing him to cross his face. Kyler definitely underthrew that.

I didn't say he ran the wrong route, I said he ran the route wrong. Two very different things. He said he was supposed to go under, but he didn't have it, so he ran over. That is the definition of running the route wrong.

 

[ajcardfan]

There is really nothing wrong with a ball that is underthrown but within the catch radius of the receiver. In fact, you are far more likely to draw a PI on an underthrown long pass than overthrown or on the numbers. The receiver just needs to make a play on the ball. Denver just beat Buffalo because Wilson underthrew a pass to Juedy who drew a penalty because he made a play to come back to the ball. McBride came back for a catch. Wilson had a chance for a PI early in the game on an underthrown ball, but didn't come back for it. Instead, it drilled the DB right in the numbers on his back.

Very few passes are perfect dimes, at any level of football.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't say he ran the wrong route, I said he ran the route wrong. Two very different things. He said he was supposed to go under, but he didn't have it, so he ran over. That is the definition of running the route wrong.

No. Listen to it again. That’s not what he said. He said he had been running it across his face all day and the DB wasn’t going to let him do that again, so he ran it differently. That’s not running it wrong. If the DB takes away a step because they recognize the route you adjust from going under to going over - but it’s the same route you just have the defender on the other hip.

 

[Stout]

I didn't say he ran the wrong route, I said he ran the route wrong. Two very different things. He said he was supposed to go under, but he didn't have it, so he ran over. That is the definition of running the route wrong.

And Kyler said he underthrew the pass, so...if the player is open for a TD and the QB said he underthrew the ball, I'm going with the ball being underthrown lol

 

[BritCard]

I like Wilson as a possession receiver, but by no means do I think he can be a #1.

He's just to slow. I don't think it's fair to compare him to McBride, because McBride does possess good athleticism that was not being utilized.

Strong disagree. There are a bunch of WR1's in the league with similar or less speed than Wilson.

Ceedee, Larry, Keenan Allen, Cooper Kupp, Puka Nakua, St. Brown, Pittman, Davante Adams, Hopkins. And this is just current guys.

 

[TheCardFan]

Strong disagree. There are a bunch of WR1's in the league with similar or less speed than Wilson.

Ceedee, Larry, Keenan Allen, Cooper Kupp, Puka Nakua, St. Brown, Pittman, Davante Adams, Hopkins. And this is just current guys.

What was their production in college vs Wilson's?

 

[BritCard]

What was their production in college vs Wilson's?

Wilson had injury issues, not play issues.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Strong disagree. There are a bunch of WR1's in the league with similar or less speed than Wilson.

Ceedee, Larry, Keenan Allen, Cooper Kupp, Puka Nakua, St. Brown, Pittman, Davante Adams, Hopkins. And this is just current guys.

I was listening to an NFL WR talk about speed for a WR. He said it's actually overrated because if you run a good route, even a faster guy will fall off and you'll get open. The same can't be said about a slow CB. He's going to get beat at times that way.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Strong disagree. There are a bunch of WR1's in the league with similar or less speed than Wilson.

Ceedee, Larry, Keenan Allen, Cooper Kupp, Puka Nakua, St. Brown, Pittman, Davante Adams, Hopkins. And this is just current guys.

well I don't want to make a big deal about a couple of plays britcard, but Wilson was targeted a couple of times yesterday on what looked like very similar sideline routes.

Both plays he had zero separation. I mean it wouldn't have been possible to have less separation from the defender.

So that's kind of what I'm wondering about Wilson. I could care less about speed as long as he can get open, but I'm not sure he's doing that (consistently).

 

[kerouac9]

well I don't want to make a big deal about a couple of plays britcard, but Wilson was targeted a couple of times yesterday on what looked like very similar sideline routes.

Both plays he had zero separation. I mean it wouldn't have been possible to have less separation from the defender.

So that's kind of what I'm wondering about Wilson. I could care less about speed as long as he can get open, but I'm not sure he's doing that (consistently).

Speed is a necessary but not sufficient condition for success in the NFL. Michael Wilson has adequate speed to be successful, but he has to create separation through subtle movements and sudden cuts.

That should come in time and as he’s prioritized more in the route development.

 

[Proximo]

I was listening to an NFL WR talk about speed for a WR. He said it's actually overrated because if you run a good route, even a faster guy will fall off and you'll get open. The same can't be said about a slow CB. He's going to get beat at times that way.

I mean I agree with this, but I don't know how to explain this exactly - while Fitz and Wilson might be comparable in their speed - they are both slow, you can absolutely tell Wilson will never be on Fitz's level already because Fitz was like a vacumn when the ball was anywhere in his vicinity. You need that ability to make up for a lack of speed.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I mean I agree with this, but I don't know how to explain this exactly - while Fitz and Wilson might be comparable in their speed - they are both slow, you can absolutely tell Wilson will never be on Fitz's level already because Fitz was like a vacumn when the ball was anywhere in his vicinity. You need that ability to make up for a lack of speed.

Boldin is the other comp with Wilson we hear Proximo.

Again, Boldin, not fast at all, but he could get open and then would then unleash hell on the defense once he had the ball.

So far, we haven't see that from Wilson either (maybe glimpses).

However, I think we have to see Wilson work with Murray for six, eight, maybe ten games before we can start drawing conclusions about where he will fit into the plan.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I mean I agree with this, but I don't know how to explain this exactly - while Fitz and Wilson might be comparable in their speed - they are both slow, you can absolutely tell Wilson will never be on Fitz's level already because Fitz was like a vacumn when the ball was anywhere in his vicinity. You need that ability to make up for a lack of speed.

I'd counter that Wilson was a good route runner, but should improve dramatically as a route runner in the future. Even the best college route runners are kind of middle of the pack NFL route runners.

 

[BritCard]

well I don't want to make a big deal about a couple of plays britcard, but Wilson was targeted a couple of times yesterday on what looked like very similar sideline routes.

Both plays he had zero separation. I mean it wouldn't have been possible to have less separation from the defender.

So that's kind of what I'm wondering about Wilson. I could care less about speed as long as he can get open, but I'm not sure he's doing that (consistently).

If you're going to use Wilson on simple go routes he isn't going to get much separation and he shouldn't be used that way. Like many of the WR's I listed above would.

He needs routes that let him use his abilities correctly. That's not going to be beating people in straight up foot races. Even the fastest guys in the league rarely win straight up against the better CBs without some scheme help.