A Can’t Lose Scenario

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
11,363
Reaction score
14,462
Location
Arcadia
Two teams - who are already solid 500 teams - that won't be near the top of the draft and who don't have a starting QB signed heading into 2024

Vikings and Seahawks

I don't see us getting rid of Kyler - not sure many teams would take him - but I bet Pete Carol could coach the ish outta Kyler Murray and I bet Minnesota wouldn't mind having him around either - but hey I've been eating a lot of edibles today so what do I know
 

PJ1

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
11,952
Reaction score
4,832
Location
Nashville TN.
Two teams - who are already solid 500 teams - that won't be near the top of the draft and who don't have a starting QB signed heading into 2024

Vikings and Seahawks

I don't see us getting rid of Kyler - not sure many teams would take him - but I bet Pete Carol could coach the ish outta Kyler Murray and I bet Minnesota wouldn't mind having him around either - but hey I've been eating a lot of edibles today so what do I know
I wonder what Petey thinks of KM. He sure did wonders with Geno.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,316
Reaction score
3,965
Location
Monroe NC
That is a poverty franchise mindset to me: quantity over quality. You absolutely need high-end talent on a roster and we have maybe one right now? We already have a ton of picks and not nearly all of them will make the roster. Sure, you can go with the poke and hope strategy, hoping you find greatness later in the draft. Why go all in on that approach when you already have another 1st and multiple picks in the top 100? At a certain point you need top talent and not just tons of picks.

Cap Space and Draft Picks do not win championships. Sheesh, I feel I need to make another jersey!

But, also, I want to wish you a Merry Christmas, @cardpa. I'm arguing the point and not trying to single you out on this find holiday :)
Merry Christmas Stout. My thinking is get as many selections in the first two rounds as you can get. I am hoping that the front office can make astute selections in these two rounds which would go a long way toward building a team that can compete for years to come. To me, there is always a couple players who will drop into the second round which should have gone in the first because teams chose to select more for need than BPA. It's very possible to get to players that have first round rankings in the second round. In the case of the Cardinals with needs at so many positions they don't have to be so picky if say a CB or WR or Edge even a DI or OLine player drops into the second round who should have gone earlier.

As for Harrison, I guess I look at it as we had Fitz for years and never really challenged for an NFC title outside of the Warner year which I contribute more to Warner than Fitz.

I am always a bit leery of FA as too many times those signings leave much to be desired than elation that they are on the team. We see it across the league.

Bottom line is I'm willing to place all of my eggs in one Monti/Gannon basket with the belief that they can get the job done.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,720
Reaction score
26,400
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Two teams - who are already solid 500 teams - that won't be near the top of the draft and who don't have a starting QB signed heading into 2024

Vikings and Seahawks

I don't see us getting rid of Kyler - not sure many teams would take him - but I bet Pete Carol could coach the ish outta Kyler Murray and I bet Minnesota wouldn't mind having him around either - but hey I've been eating a lot of edibles today so what do I know
Geno is under contract the next two years.

Pittsburgh and Atlanta might be looking for upgrades. Chicago with their lower pick might be willing to take a more sure thing?
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,007
Reaction score
14,441
Location
Plainfield, Il.
Merry Christmas Stout. My thinking is get as many selections in the first two rounds as you can get. I am hoping that the front office can make astute selections in these two rounds which would go a long way toward building a team that can compete for years to come. To me, there is always a couple players who will drop into the second round which should have gone in the first because teams chose to select more for need than BPA. It's very possible to get to players that have first round rankings in the second round. In the case of the Cardinals with needs at so many positions they don't have to be so picky if say a CB or WR or Edge even a DI or OLine player drops into the second round who should have gone earlier.

As for Harrison, I guess I look at it as we had Fitz for years and never really challenged for an NFC title outside of the Warner year which I contribute more to Warner than Fitz.

I am always a bit leery of FA as too many times those signings leave much to be desired than elation that they are on the team. We see it across the league.

Bottom line is I'm willing to place all of my eggs in one Monti/Gannon basket with the belief that they can get the job done.
Warner and Fitz were an awesome duo. Warner and skillet hands would not have been the same. Fitz got us to the Super Bowl. He was lights out and I think at the time he set a playoff record.
We need dynamic pieces on this offense and more than one. MHJ would be a great start.
We have 3 picks in the top 34 picks. We need to hit on all 3 of them. No reaching. No “ smartest guy in the room” syndrome.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,526
Reaction score
30,645
Location
Orange County, CA
MHJ is the best WR prospect in this draft. Not a slight on the other WRs in what appears to be a good crop. From what I'm reading, you don't think MHJ is the best WR prospect in this draft. Or you're being weirdly evasive about admitting as much.
I do.

I've said so many times.

What I am saying, and quite a few others, is that while he is the best, the others are really good too. Worthy of moving down and taking AND getting a lot of picks. I won't be shocked if we look back years from now and say Malik Nabers or Rome Odunze was the best receiver in the draft. The gulf isn't as wide as you believe.
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,686
Reaction score
828
Location
A rotten place...
I do.

I've said so many times.

What I am saying, and quite a few others, is that while he is the best, the others are really good too. Worthy of moving down and taking AND getting a lot of picks. I won't be shocked if we look back years from now and say Malik Nabers or Rome Odunze was the best receiver in the draft. The gulf isn't as wide as you believe.
This is What I start to Think. Pff has Nabers as an Almost equal prospects as MHJ, But without the hype and media attention.
Would be perfectly fine with picking up multiple 1st rounders and Taking him at e.g. #7 overall. Jets Will most likely finish with the 7th. The GM and Salah would be insane not to give loads of picks to move up.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,412
Reaction score
21,231
I do.

I've said so many times.

What I am saying, and quite a few others, is that while he is the best, the others are really good too. Worthy of moving down and taking AND getting a lot of picks. I won't be shocked if we look back years from now and say Malik Nabers or Rome Odunze was the best receiver in the draft. The gulf isn't as wide as you believe.
lol I like Rome but he’s closer to the tier behind him than he is to MHJ & Nabers.
 

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
3,675
Reaction score
3,012
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
We have an extra game?
On Christmas Eve the Cards received a present so big that I actually lost sleep thinking about it. With 3 more likely losses looming Ossenfort has pulled off a maneuver that’s the envy of every GM. Tanking is punished in the NFL. Added to that the unpredictability (any given Sunday) and the intense competitiveness of the players and coaches have typically doomed that strategy to failure. This time the Holy Grail of team management is within reach. There are no sure things. The Cards lost a chance to draft Eli Manning several years ago with a final game upset and while Manning wasn’t on the same level as his brother, he went on to win 2 Super Bowls, while the Cards floundered.

That said, if the Cards lose the next 3 games the draft ramifications are nearly surreal. The Cards could quickly have one of those dominant personnel opportunities that seldom occur in the NFL. The Cards would have the draft’s second pick. Consider the scenarios.

#1 The Bears go first and select Harrison. I know many, including myself, were hoping the Cards would get him and they still might. The Cards sitting second would have Williams fall in their lap. Despite a few articles to the contrary he is easily the dominant QB prospect in the draft. Forget about Maye for a moment. The consensus is USC coach Lincoln Riley has not done a good job with Williams. Many feel Riley squandered Williams’ talent. Williams remains extremely valuable. He is a true multi-threat QB. I firmly believe the Cards are staying with Murray. So they will trade Williams. Let me assure you every QB hungry team covets Williams. The suitors are numerous. Right now Washington sits third based on strength of schedule, though it’s so close the Pats could pass them. The intense QB competition could well mean the Cards could secure Washington’s third pick plus maybe a 2025 first and second plus a 2024 second. That’s an overpay and will only happen if Washington doesn’t want Maye or Daniels otherwise they sit and wait. Williams is placed well above both of them but the price is high. If Washington bites, the Cards would then sit third, but they still don’t need a QB. Behind them is New England, desperate for a QB. The Cards would trade again, securing a return likely identical to the Washington return.

One thing the Cards would have to consider is how many players from one draft could be assimilated in one year. Of course the simple solution would be to use the seconds to secure a third, round one pick. The maneuvering continues. The Cards now sit fourth. This is where the rubber hits the road. The Cards could take one of the OTs. Fashanu is the consensus choice. However, there are still teams desperate for a QB and Daniels is still on the board or maybe Maye if New England chose before Washington, as it’s rumored Washington is concerned about taking another NC QB. There are still a stack of teams desperate for a QB. The Cards could trade with Atlanta or Las Vegas. Again securing their pick along with a 2025 first and a 2024 second plus other picks. Now the Cards would have an unprecedented (I believe) four first round picks in 2025. If they make this drop they could use one of the acquired second round picks as an overpay to move back up to get their OT. This would be the optimum possible result.

#2

Chicago takes Williams. The Cards start down the line trading with Washington and New England. The Cards end up fifth. They would then likely not make another trade, but rather stay put and take Harrison. Again they could use 2 or 3 of their seconds to grab a tackle. They still have the Texas pick. They’ve also would have three 2025 firsts.

#3

It’s possible Chicago trades the first pick to New England or Washington. This would be the worst scenario for the Cards. The Cards could take Harrison, but with two top QBs on the board, I think they trade. That lets the Bears grab Harrison. The Cards are now in position to make the other trade. They would still end up getting two additional 2025 firsts plus a handful of other picks. They could use picks to come back up and get that tackle, a WR and an Edge, as their round one haul. They would have fewer but more impactful players to integrate.

I hope you follow all that. I don’t think I got lost going through the maze. I checked it several times. At the very least it’s very exciting and if this was Monti’s strategy, the Cards have a brilliant GM.
 

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
3,675
Reaction score
3,012
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
On Christmas Eve the Cards received a present so big that I actually lost sleep thinking about it. With 3 more likely losses looming Ossenfort has pulled off a maneuver that’s the envy of every GM. Tanking is punished in the NFL. Added to that the unpredictability (any given Sunday) and the intense competitiveness of the players and coaches have typically doomed that strategy to failure. This time the Holy Grail of team management is within reach. There are no sure things. The Cards lost a chance to draft Eli Manning several years ago with a final game upset and while Manning wasn’t on the same level as his brother, he went on to win 2 Super Bowls, while the Cards floundered.

That said, if the Cards lose the next 3 games the draft ramifications are nearly surreal. The Cards could quickly have one of those dominant personnel opportunities that seldom occur in the NFL. The Cards would have the draft’s second pick. Consider the scenarios.

#1 The Bears go first and select Harrison. I know many, including myself, were hoping the Cards would get him and they still might. The Cards sitting second would have Williams fall in their lap. Despite a few articles to the contrary he is easily the dominant QB prospect in the draft. Forget about Maye for a moment. The consensus is USC coach Lincoln Riley has not done a good job with Williams. Many feel Riley squandered Williams’ talent. Williams remains extremely valuable. He is a true multi-threat QB. I firmly believe the Cards are staying with Murray. So they will trade Williams. Let me assure you every QB hungry team covets Williams. The suitors are numerous. Right now Washington sits third based on strength of schedule, though it’s so close the Pats could pass them. The intense QB competition could well mean the Cards could secure Washington’s third pick plus maybe a 2025 first and second plus a 2024 second. That’s an overpay and will only happen if Washington doesn’t want Maye or Daniels otherwise they sit and wait. Williams is placed well above both of them but the price is high. If Washington bites, the Cards would then sit third, but they still don’t need a QB. Behind them is New England, desperate for a QB. The Cards would trade again, securing a return likely identical to the Washington return.

One thing the Cards would have to consider is how many players from one draft could be assimilated in one year. Of course the simple solution would be to use the seconds to secure a third, round one pick. The maneuvering continues. The Cards now sit fourth. This is where the rubber hits the road. The Cards could take one of the OTs. Fashanu is the consensus choice. However, there are still teams desperate for a QB and Daniels is still on the board or maybe Maye if New England chose before Washington, as it’s rumored Washington is concerned about taking another NC QB. There are still a stack of teams desperate for a QB. The Cards could trade with Atlanta or Las Vegas. Again securing their pick along with a 2025 first and a 2024 second plus other picks. Now the Cards would have an unprecedented (I believe) four first round picks in 2025. If they make this drop they could use one of the acquired second round picks as an overpay to move back up to get their OT. This would be the optimum possible result.

#2

Chicago takes Williams. The Cards start down the line trading with Washington and New England. The Cards end up fifth. They would then likely not make another trade, but rather stay put and take Harrison. Again they could use 2 or 3 of their seconds to grab a tackle. They still have the Texas pick. They’ve also would have three 2025 firsts.

#3

It’s possible Chicago trades the first pick to New England or Washington. This would be the worst scenario for the Cards. The Cards could take Harrison, but with two top QBs on the board, I think they trade. That lets the Bears grab Harrison. The Cards are now in position to make the other trade. They would still end up getting two additional 2025 firsts plus a handful of other picks. They could use picks to come back up and get that tackle, a WR and an Edge, as their round one haul. They would have fewer but more impactful players to integrate.

I hope you follow all that. I don’t think I got lost going through the maze. I checked it several times. At the very least it’s very exciting and if this was Monti’s strategy, the Cards have a brilliant GM.
Option #3, what top two QBs are left on the board if NE or Washington moves into spot 1?
 

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
3,675
Reaction score
3,012
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
On Christmas Eve the Cards received a present so big that I actually lost sleep thinking about it. With 3 more likely losses looming Ossenfort has pulled off a maneuver that’s the envy of every GM. Tanking is punished in the NFL. Added to that the unpredictability (any given Sunday) and the intense competitiveness of the players and coaches have typically doomed that strategy to failure. This time the Holy Grail of team management is within reach. There are no sure things. The Cards lost a chance to draft Eli Manning several years ago with a final game upset and while Manning wasn’t on the same level as his brother, he went on to win 2 Super Bowls, while the Cards floundered.

That said, if the Cards lose the next 3 games the draft ramifications are nearly surreal. The Cards could quickly have one of those dominant personnel opportunities that seldom occur in the NFL. The Cards would have the draft’s second pick. Consider the scenarios.

#1 The Bears go first and select Harrison. I know many, including myself, were hoping the Cards would get him and they still might. The Cards sitting second would have Williams fall in their lap. Despite a few articles to the contrary he is easily the dominant QB prospect in the draft. Forget about Maye for a moment. The consensus is USC coach Lincoln Riley has not done a good job with Williams. Many feel Riley squandered Williams’ talent. Williams remains extremely valuable. He is a true multi-threat QB. I firmly believe the Cards are staying with Murray. So they will trade Williams. Let me assure you every QB hungry team covets Williams. The suitors are numerous. Right now Washington sits third based on strength of schedule, though it’s so close the Pats could pass them. The intense QB competition could well mean the Cards could secure Washington’s third pick plus maybe a 2025 first and second plus a 2024 second. That’s an overpay and will only happen if Washington doesn’t want Maye or Daniels otherwise they sit and wait. Williams is placed well above both of them but the price is high. If Washington bites, the Cards would then sit third, but they still don’t need a QB. Behind them is New England, desperate for a QB. The Cards would trade again, securing a return likely identical to the Washington return.

One thing the Cards would have to consider is how many players from one draft could be assimilated in one year. Of course the simple solution would be to use the seconds to secure a third, round one pick. The maneuvering continues. The Cards now sit fourth. This is where the rubber hits the road. The Cards could take one of the OTs. Fashanu is the consensus choice. However, there are still teams desperate for a QB and Daniels is still on the board or maybe Maye if New England chose before Washington, as it’s rumored Washington is concerned about taking another NC QB. There are still a stack of teams desperate for a QB. The Cards could trade with Atlanta or Las Vegas. Again securing their pick along with a 2025 first and a 2024 second plus other picks. Now the Cards would have an unprecedented (I believe) four first round picks in 2025. If they make this drop they could use one of the acquired second round picks as an overpay to move back up to get their OT. This would be the optimum possible result.

#2

Chicago takes Williams. The Cards start down the line trading with Washington and New England. The Cards end up fifth. They would then likely not make another trade, but rather stay put and take Harrison. Again they could use 2 or 3 of their seconds to grab a tackle. They still have the Texas pick. They’ve also would have three 2025 firsts.

#3

It’s possible Chicago trades the first pick to New England or Washington. This would be the worst scenario for the Cards. The Cards could take Harrison, but with two top QBs on the board, I think they trade. That lets the Bears grab Harrison. The Cards are now in position to make the other trade. They would still end up getting two additional 2025 firsts plus a handful of other picks. They could use picks to come back up and get that tackle, a WR and an Edge, as their round one haul. They would have fewer but more impactful players to integrate.

I hope you follow all that. I don’t think I got lost going through the maze. I checked it several times. At the very least it’s very exciting and if this was Monti’s strategy, the Cards have a brilliant GM.
Option #1 indeed would be a dream scenario, I’m in:)
 
Top