Today’s Draft Rumor

Mulli

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I picked him for effect. A poor edge rusher doesn't wreck a defense the way a poor LT does. I remember watching Robert Quinn beating Baptiste every play the year Baptiste started and it literally made the Cardinals offense non-functional.
OMG, the game that Chris Long drank Kevin Kolb's milkshake over and over on prime time. Was that a nightmare or real life?
 

kerouac9

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And to just say Garrett was 10th best in pressures as some kind of litmus and ignores all other kinds is completely disingenuous....

Dude, then set the terms. OMG! I just defended Pressures as a more reliable and comprehensive stat than sacks. It's probably a better measure because it ENCOMPASSES a bunch of other events (like sacks and hurries).

If you're triggered by Garrett, let's look at sacks.

10th Edge in sacks last season was Jonathan Greenard. He's sandwiched between Montez Sweat and Aidan Hutchinson.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I do. The best LT wins the match up a very high percentage of the time.

Solid tackle is pretty good for a rookie. I've watched this team for around three decades and PJJ was easily the best rookie lineman I've seen from this. Not really a high bar, but he was very solid and won matchups against some good pass rushers.
But when the passrusher does win it’s MUCH more impactful.

It’s really an irrelevant benchmark. A better one would be that he was considered like the 4th best rookie tackle (I believe someone provided background on that in another thread).
 

oaken1

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I picked him for effect. A poor edge rusher doesn't wreck a defense the way a poor LT does. I remember watching Robert Quinn beating Baptiste every play the year Baptiste started and it literally made the Cardinals offense non-functional.
Yeah...if you got a piss poor OT the only thing you can really do is try to run to the opposite side
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I picked him for effect. A poor edge rusher doesn't wreck a defense the way a poor LT does. I remember watching Robert Quinn beating Baptiste every play the year Baptiste started and it literally made the Cardinals offense non-functional.
But you chose to compare a guy who we all know doesn’t belong in the nfl to a guy who we all believe is a reasonable rotation guy. That’s just creating a disingenuous comparison imo.
 

kerouac9

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I do. The best LT wins the match up a very high percentage of the time.

Yeah, but that's true with a mediocre LT, also. Brandon Keith didn't give up 40 sacks a game because he got beat on every QB dropback.

The difference between Levi Brown and Joe Thomas was vast, but it's not like that.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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i think part of the argument is how LT is linked to the QB position

its the reason I cant object too strongly to Monti's strategy of protecting the QB as a priority --
But so is edge - just in the inverse. One is supposed to keep the QB upright. The other is supposed to disrupt the QB or knock his block off.
 

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I think for the floor that equation works. But unsure about the ceiling. For instance, I don’t think the best LT is more valuable than TJ Watt.

And of course PJJ can become a pro bowler, but he hasn’t shown that ability yet. He’s a solid tackle. I’m hoping for more.

He is at worse a saw-off if he's going head-to-head with TJ.
 

Krangodnzr

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But so is edge - just in the inverse. One is supposed to keep the QB upright. The other is supposed to disrupt the QB or knock his block off.
I would have taken Andrew Whitworth over Chandler Jones. Watching Whitworth dominate CJ for years should demonstrate why LTs are so important and why a really good LT will usually win against a really good pass rusher. The rules and the way football is played favors the LT.
 

kerouac9

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I would have taken Andrew Whitworth over Chandler Jones. Watching Whitworth dominate CJ for years should demonstrate why LTs are so important and why a really good LT will usually win against a really good pass rusher. The rules and the way football is played favors the LT.
Eight sacks and five forced fumbles in 12 career games in a pretty tough sell on the "domination" front, m'dude.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I would have taken Andrew Whitworth over Chandler Jones. Watching Whitworth dominate CJ for years should demonstrate why LTs are so important and why a really good LT will usually win against a really good pass rusher. The rules and the way football is played favors the LT.
These arguments of cherry-picking guys are just bad arguments. Certain guys own certain guys.
 

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I'm pretty confident that Will Anderson will be better than PJJ and whomever we get at 27. PJJ by all indications projects as a slightly better DJ Humphries.

Now this needs a citation. How does he project as "slightly better DJ Humphries"?

Hump didn't play a game his rookie year. PJJ started 17. I'm just not sure how anyone can project what he might be after a year mostly playing with Josh Dobbs.

Is this basically because he was "slightly better than DJ Humphries" last year, in his rookie year vs Humps 8th?
 

Krangodnzr

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Now this needs a citation. How does he project as "slightly better DJ Humphries"?

Hump didn't play a game his rookie year. PJJ started 17. I'm just not sure how anyone can project what he might be after a year mostly playing with Josh Dobbs.

Is this basically because he was "slightly better than DJ Humphries" last year, in his rookie year vs Humps 8th?
I think PJJ will be a markedly better player than Humphries.
 

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The Bengals proved that a team can get to the SB when they can score points despite a mediocre defense. Because of that, WR just sticks as super important. They need outside speed. Is it the only strategy? No; because some say Alt is super important, some might say pass rusher. Decisions, decisions. It just seems like wr is a serious need, but I've heard the draft is deep at the position. More than likely I stay and draft a WR at 4 unless someone offers a lot to move down a spot or 2. I'm not looking at the board so teams can try to move way up. Would you get a 2nd tier guy if you try to be cute and move down too far?
 

kerouac9

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Now this needs a citation. How does he project as "slightly better DJ Humphries"?

Hump didn't play a game his rookie year. PJJ started 17. I'm just not sure how anyone can project what he might be after a year mostly playing with Josh Dobbs.

Is this basically because he was "slightly better than DJ Humphries" last year, in his rookie year vs Humps 8th?

I think that PJJ's ceiling is similar to DJ Humphries. He'll reach it earlier than Hump did and likely be more durable than Humphries (who struggled to stay healthy in college, which was a reason his draft stock was relatively low).

It's bizarre that you think QB play has some impact on evaluating an offensive lineman, but do you, bruh.

PJJ wasn't clearly the best tackle in his (historically bad) draft class as a rookie. He'd be maybe the fourth or fifth best OT in the 2024 draft class. He might make a couple of Pro Bowls if he plays a long time.

Or, he might not even start at LT this season. We'll see!
 

Krangodnzr

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I think that PJJ's ceiling is similar to DJ Humphries. He'll reach it earlier than Hump did and likely be more durable than Humphries (who struggled to stay healthy in college, which was a reason his draft stock was relatively low).

It's bizarre that you think QB play has some impact on evaluating an offensive lineman, but do you, bruh.

PJJ wasn't clearly the best tackle in his (historically bad) draft class as a rookie. He'd be maybe the fourth or fifth best OT in the 2024 draft class. He might make a couple of Pro Bowls if he plays a long time.


Or, he might not even start at LT this season. We'll see!
Man you are such a take down artist.

What is this based on? Are you secretly reading PFF grades?
 

Krangodnzr

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All haters, obviously.
No one watches every snap of every player and people tend to not really watch the Cardinals at all unless they are fans of the team.

I watched PJJ all year long and he was mostly pretty solid and at times good. He had a few rough patches, but he didn't exactly go against the AFC South.
 
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