Free Agency

Stout

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But you don't know the plan & neither do they. How can anyone say it's a good or bad plan right now?
People can like or not like how they are conducting business (or not conducting business, as the case may be), and form their opinions on their plans, whatever they may be.
 

oaken1

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But you don't know the plan & neither do they. How can anyone say it's a good or bad plan right now?
IMO... it is appearances. The total lack of qualifying or defining moves gives the impression there is no plan at all.
we really have to wait for the draft to get an idea what they are trying to do.
 

Krangodnzr

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People can like or not like how they are conducting business (or not conducting business, as the case may be), and form their opinions on their plans, whatever they may be.
What I think they are doing is trying to evaluate the roster from last year. There were so many coaching issues and injury issues that it's hard to evaluate it.

I think we won't see many more signings, mostly players after the draft to fill obvious holes that weren't filled through the draft. Hopefully this means that all of the good young players get to play and the Cardinals can evaluate for a year their progress and then take a real stab at Free Agency next year.

Do I like this strategy? No, but I see what they are doing.

Even letting Allen and Murphy walk has some merit. Allen is being paid now. Could Allen be a real bad contract in a year or two? Yes. He can't miss games and needs to produce a bit more to make up for his contract. I can see why the Cardinals wouldn't approach that number, but I would have. I'm a fan, not a manager of a team.

Murphy wasn't even the best Cardinals corner back last year. I'm a big Murphy fan, but if you asked me, do I think Murphy is a legitimate #1 corner, I'd say he probably never will be. Can a rebuilding team afford to pay a guy who is really just a good #2 corner the money that Murphy got? It's probably not smart.
 

kerouac9

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The counter argument is that there is a reason the NFL is not a teaching league.

The two reasons I am most "down" on the idea that Gannon might coach to win 7-8 games next year.

1 - The most experience and competency of the coaching staff is on the defensive side of the ball. That said, the gap between the talent Philly had last year on defense and what the Cardinals are going to have this year, is enormous.

2 - The most talent on the team still resides on the offense however, the coaching staff leaves a lot to be desired in terms of track record and experience. Maybe the staff works out long term but it is highly likely there is a steep learning curve upcoming.

The NFL is not a teaching league. It's an execution league. You can communicate down stream what the plays are and how to execute them, but it's a player's responsibility to physically get better during the offseason. This means perfecting fundamentals, getting new pass rush moves, etc.

I don't know if you can say that "most of the talent" is on the offense for much longer. The OL is pretty much trash, and if we get rid of Hop it's pretty close between draft capital and salary. Especially if we add Will Anderson and a corner in the second round.

I'd like to know how anybody knows what the Cardinals plan is. Nobody in the Cards front office has communicated their team plans to the public, which isn't unusual for NFL teams. So how does anybody place a grade on any team's plans? This is some high level speculation based on a team's initial moves in free agency. Who knows the real plan is or what circumstances might have effected said plans.

You are what you do. The grade is based on how well the moves have communicated any kind of coherent plan for what happens next. Free agency is through two waves at this point; the focus will turn to the draft over the next month, and then there will be two waves of free agency afterward (one as people work to backfill their roster holes and one as teams fill out their spots before camp).
 

ajcardfan

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In the decades I have followed this team there have always been fans who steadfastly defend the Cardinals signing B list, but cheap, players instead of trying to keep better players.

1. Cardinals have a mediocre, at best , drafting history.

2. How can you "build through the draft" when you annually let players walk after their rookie contract because they will be 'overpaid'?

If we were killer at drafting maybe that would work. But we aren't. Maybe Monti will be better but... Who the hell really know
 

BirdGangThing

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I think Monti Ossenfort is calling the agents of the NFL's least sought after players and is low balling the holy Lisa Crapanelli out of them

"Hey this is what we're offering. You're more than welcome to pursue other offers and we thank you for your time but the offer may not be here after the draft so do what you gotta do, mistro."

--Monti Bossenfort (probably)
 

Mainstreet

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In the decades I have followed this team there have always been fans who steadfastly defend the Cardinals signing B list, but cheap, players instead of trying to keep better players.

1. Cardinals have a mediocre, at best , drafting history.

2. How can you "build through the draft" when you annually let players walk after their rookie contract because they will be 'overpaid'?

If we were killer at drafting maybe that would work. But we aren't. Maybe Monti will be better but... Who the hell really know

Doesn't Monti Ossenfort have a background in scouting? I don't know a lot about him but I think we should give him a chance.

The Cardinals finally replaced Keim. Maybe he has some new ideas.
 

juza76

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Doesn't Monti Ossenfort have a background in scouting? I don't know a lot about him but I think we should give him a chance.

The Cardinals finally replaced Keim. Maybe he has some new ideas.
Even Keim has a background as a scout and was a former college guard
He couldn't even draft one good interior lineman in 10 years
Probably if Bidwill did chose a former figure skater as gm could have done a better job drafting offensive linemen
 

Mainstreet

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Even Keim has a background as a scout and was a former college guard
He couldn't even draft one good interior lineman in 10 years
Probably if Bidwill did chose a former figure skater as gm could have done a better job drafting offensive linemen

Why are we putting Keim's burden on Monti? All I'm saying is, let's see the plan and watch the draft unfold.
 

Chopper0080

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What I think they are doing is trying to evaluate the roster from last year. There were so many coaching issues and injury issues that it's hard to evaluate it.

I think we won't see many more signings, mostly players after the draft to fill obvious holes that weren't filled through the draft. Hopefully this means that all of the good young players get to play and the Cardinals can evaluate for a year their progress and then take a real stab at Free Agency next year.

Do I like this strategy? No, but I see what they are doing.

Even letting Allen and Murphy walk has some merit. Allen is being paid now. Could Allen be a real bad contract in a year or two? Yes. He can't miss games and needs to produce a bit more to make up for his contract. I can see why the Cardinals wouldn't approach that number, but I would have. I'm a fan, not a manager of a team.

Murphy wasn't even the best Cardinals corner back last year. I'm a big Murphy fan, but if you asked me, do I think Murphy is a legitimate #1 corner, I'd say he probably never will be. Can a rebuilding team afford to pay a guy who is really just a good #2 corner the money that Murphy got? It's probably not smart.
I think it was a bad plan to forego free agency and their plan was obviously to forego it. Either they set their prices too low or just didn't care to get involved.

I also believe the negative impact of the Allen and Murphy contracts is being way overblown. We were likely never to sign both so worst case scenario, you have one elevated contract for a player for the next two years before you cut them loose. There is no large impact of that. Especially if you are depending heavily on the draft to fill your roster.
 

ajcardfan

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Doesn't Monti Ossenfort have a background in scouting? I don't know a lot about him but I think we should give him a chance.

The Cardinals finally replaced Keim. Maybe he has some new ideas.
Sure. Give him a chance. And I am. All I said was he had better be getting killer drafts. And, who knows when he has yet to make a draft pick if he will or not?
 

Krangodnzr

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I think it was a bad plan to forego free agency and their plan was obviously to forego it. Either they set their prices too low or just didn't care to get involved.

I also believe the negative impact of the Allen and Murphy contracts is being way overblown. We were likely never to sign both so worst case scenario, you have one elevated contract for a player for the next two years before you cut them loose. There is no large impact of that. Especially if you are depending heavily on the draft to fill your roster.
I definitely agree with you. I definitely would've tried to keep Murphy at that number.
 

Snakester

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At the end of the day we have to ask ourselves, has the team improved from free agency compared to last years team. So far easy no to me. After the draft same question will the team be better than last year’s team.

If Monti can’t improve the team year over year then he is failing at his job. Don’t care if it’s his first year or 20th. His job is to improve the team year over year so it can compete at a high level. I wish him the best but so far he’s floundering.
 

daves

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In the decades I have followed this team there have always been fans who steadfastly defend the Cardinals signing B list, but cheap, players instead of trying to keep better players.
Sure... Those moves deserved criticism when the team claimed to be building upon a roster that was "almost good enough" (even though it may not have been) and trying to become an immediate contender.

But in the current situation where everyone recognizes that the team is NOT going to be a playoff contender in 2023, refraining from adding A-list talent makes sense.
1. Cardinals have a mediocre, at best , drafting history.
Yes but you have to at least hope that the new regime will be better... certainly the new regime has to believe in their own ability to do better... Otherwise NOTHING they do matters.
2. How can you "build through the draft" when you annually let players walk after their rookie contract because they will be 'overpaid'?
Again... the new regime surely doesn't intend to keep doing that. Yes, they made their evaluations and didn't retain Murphy or Allen, but the real benefit of retaining your rookies is recognizing their worth and extending them at a good value a year BEFORE their rookie contract expires. Keim already blew that opportunity last year, so at this point the Cardinals had to offer contracts that out-completed every other interested team. That they decided not to do so is not indicative that they will continue the past pattern of falling to retain promising young players.
If we were killer at drafting maybe that would work. But we aren't. Maybe Monti will be better but... Who the hell really know
Indeed... nothing to do but wait and hope on that count.
 

ajcardfan

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Indeed... nothing to do but wait and hope on that count.

Indeed that is it. Hope it's amazingly different. We all do.

But right now? It's like watching the 1990s Cardinals reborn. Because it is. It's exactly like that.
 

BritCard

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Murphy wasn't even the best Cardinals corner back last year. I'm a big Murphy fan, but if you asked me, do I think Murphy is a legitimate #1 corner, I'd say he probably never will be. Can a rebuilding team afford to pay a guy who is really just a good #2 corner the money that Murphy got? It's probably not smart.

This is the thing with Murphy. We already have a CB2 in Wilson and Murphy is never going to be a legit CB1. It's highly statistically improbable with his athletic profile. He's too short, too slow, too unathletic by NFL standards to ever realistically be that good. He could be a solid #2 but I don't even think he's that yet.

I think his deal was good value but I can see why they thought it was a duplication of talent and could replace him for less. Or maybe Murphy just wanted a change. Who knows?
 

Stout

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At the end of the day we have to ask ourselves, has the team improved from free agency compared to last years team. So far easy no to me. After the draft same question will the team be better than last year’s team.

If Monti can’t improve the team year over year then he is failing at his job. Don’t care if it’s his first year or 20th. His job is to improve the team year over year so it can compete at a high level. I wish him the best but so far he’s floundering.
Heading into the draft, I don't think there's anyone that can say our roster is better than last year's roster heading into the draft.
 

Krangodnzr

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This is the thing with Murphy. We already have a CB2 in Wilson and Murphy is never going to be a legit CB1. It's highly statistically improbable with his athletic profile. He's too short, too slow, too unathletic by NFL standards to ever realistically be that good. He could be a solid #2 but I don't even think he's that yet.

I think his deal was good value but I can see why they thought it was a duplication of talent and could replace him for less. Or maybe Murphy just wanted a change. Who knows?
Pretty much my thinking of why they let him go.

And as much as I like Allen, that deal is pretty big for his talent. Most fans on this very board wanted Allen for around $12 mil.

The issue shouldn't be not re-signing those two, the issue is that they didn't replace them with commensurate talents.
 

Stout

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Pretty much my thinking of why they let him go.

And as much as I like Allen, that deal is pretty big for his talent. Most fans on this very board wanted Allen for around $12 mil.

The issue shouldn't be not re-signing those two, the issue is that they didn't replace them with commensurate talents.
Fair. If they had replaced them with commensurate talents on long-term deals, at least we would have begun as the same sucky roster as we had before, not well below that level.
 

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