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Chopper0080

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Now I want to make sure you understand that I don't feel this way, but the argument can be made that an overpay is an overpay and that when you clear the cap the way the Cardinals are, why would you turn around and add what could be bad contracts?

My bet is that the new regime sees Cam Thomas as Allen's replacement.
Regarding point 1, again it depends on what your goals are. If your goals are to build your team through the draft, 1-3 year deals don't really matter. Look at James Conner's contract as an example of this. Most agree that he is overpaid, but his contract isn't preventing the Cardinals from doing anything. Ertz contract is another example. You have to spend money.

Point 2. I agree. The Keim-of-it is he hasn't shown he can.
 

Stout

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Regarding point 1, again it depends on what your goals are. If your goals are to build your team through the draft, 1-3 year deals don't really matter. Look at James Conner's contract as an example of this. Most agree that he is overpaid, but his contract isn't preventing the Cardinals from doing anything. Ertz contract is another example. You have to spend money.

Point 2. I agree. The Keim-of-it is he hasn't shown he can.
And, also, that's a dumb plan because you're just plugging a hole you created by not bringing back the guy in the first place. At best it's treading water. Boy, do we ever need to not just be treading water with this roster.
 

BritCard

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I can't see Cam Thomas moving from Edge if they are going to 4-3 (which seems likely). Maybe he would have played some 3-4 DE if we played a 3-4 but you don't play a 270lb guy at DT in a 4 man front. He'd get crushed. They would run at him all day.

He had 3 sacks, a PD, 4 TFL's, 7 pressures, 10 Hits, 3 knockdowns and 18 tackles on just 157 passing snaps and 75 run snaps.

SIS actually has him with 17 pressures and an 11.6% pressure rate.
 

Krangodnzr

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I can't see Cam Thomas moving from Edge if they are going to 4-3 (which seems likely). Maybe he would have played some 3-4 DE if we played a 3-4 but you don't play a 270lb guy at DT in a 4 man front. He'd get crushed. They would run at him all day.

He had 3 sacks, a PD, 4 TFL's, 7 pressures, 10 Hits, 3 knockdowns and 18 tackles on just 157 passing snaps and 75 run snaps.

SIS actually has him with 17 pressures and an 11.6% pressure rate.
Cam Thomas actually showed quite a bit in limited snaps. I think he can become around an 8 sack per year guy and will be a nice compliment to Anderson Jr.
 

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Cam Thomas actually showed quite a bit in limited snaps. I think he can become around an 8 sack per year guy and will be a nice compliment to Anderson Jr.

A lot of the offseason talk has focused on what Allen and Murphy might be in the future while guys still on the team seems to be just what they are with no room to grow.

There is much more to come from Thomas, Sanders, Moore, Thompson, Wilson, Zaven, Simmons etc Even guys like Hayes, Smith and Lawrence. We have a pretty young core on defense now of players that have flashed high ceilings. We just need coaches and structure to maximise that.
 

Stout

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A lot of the offseason talk has focused on what Allen and Murphy might be in the future while guys still on the team seems to be just what they are with no room to grow.

There is much more to come from Thomas, Sanders, Moore, Thompson, Wilson, Zaven, Simmons etc Even guys like Hayes, Smith and Lawrence. We have a pretty young core on defense now of players that have flashed high ceilings. We just need coaches and structure to maximise that.
So in actuality we have a solid young roster that only needs a few additions? Is this your stance?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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A lot of the offseason talk has focused on what Allen and Murphy might be in the future while guys still on the team seems to be just what they are with no room to grow.

There is much more to come from Thomas, Sanders, Moore, Thompson, Wilson, Zaven, Simmons etc Even guys like Hayes, Smith and Lawrence. We have a pretty young core on defense now of players that have flashed high ceilings. We just need coaches and structure to maximise that.
Again, no one on ASFN has said this ever. This is a boring tactic.
 

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JG might like some of Keim's draft picks and that 2-3 year draft window will show how the drafts will be evaluated more than a same year draft grade.
 

kerouac9

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A lot of the offseason talk has focused on what Allen and Murphy might be in the future while guys still on the team seems to be just what they are with no room to grow.

There is much more to come from Thomas, Sanders, Moore, Thompson, Wilson, Zaven, Simmons etc Even guys like Hayes, Smith and Lawrence. We have a pretty young core on defense now of players that have flashed high ceilings. We just need coaches and structure to maximise that.
Having Murphy and Allen on the roster wouldn’t have any impact on the development of those other players.

Obviously not all of our young talent will develop into quality NFL players; in fact, only a handful of them will.
 

Chopper0080

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Having Murphy and Allen on the roster wouldn’t have any impact on the development of those other players.

Obviously not all of our young talent will develop into quality NFL players; in fact, only a handful of them will.
This is probably the only situation where i use the "it's not madden" phrase. Player development is not a given, just like health. Trying to predict it is a tricky thing. Better to have players show growth than to make moves depending on it.
 

MadCardDisease

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I can't see Cam Thomas moving from Edge if they are going to 4-3 (which seems likely). Maybe he would have played some 3-4 DE if we played a 3-4 but you don't play a 270lb guy at DT in a 4 man front. He'd get crushed. They would run at him all day.

He had 3 sacks, a PD, 4 TFL's, 7 pressures, 10 Hits, 3 knockdowns and 18 tackles on just 157 passing snaps and 75 run snaps.

SIS actually has him with 17 pressures and an 11.6% pressure rate.
Cam Thomas will be a DE in Gannon's new 4-3 defense. He fits the mold of a Josh Sweat or Brandon Graham like the Eagles used at DE last year.
 

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We have a lot of young players, yes. Some of them may be capable of getting much better. Some may be capable of getting incrementally better. Many of them have shown us what they are.

People talk about Murphy and Allen like they are sure fire rising stars because we let them walk and at the same time talk about the young guys we still have as if they will never amount to anything.

There is a lot of young potential on this team. Especially on defense. Especially players already starting or likely to have significant roles. There's no reason Collins, Wilson, Simmons, Thompson, Sanders, Thomas etc can't make significant leaps and thrive in a new none Vance led scheme.
 

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People talk about Murphy and Allen like they are sure fire rising stars because we let them walk and at the same time talk about the young guys we still have as if they will never amount to anything.

There is a lot of young potential on this team. Especially on defense. Especially players already starting or likely to have significant roles. There's no reason Collins, Wilson, Simmons, Thompson, Sanders, Thomas etc can't make significant leaps and thrive in a new none Vance led scheme.
Maybe. I still have big question marks over Sanders, Collins, and I hate to say Simmons, but also Simmons. Wilson is an okay player that will hopefully get better. I think Thomas is going to be a steady riser like Allen was. As for there being no reason they can't, well, that's just hope. There's every reason they can but also every reason they can't. Some players hit, some players miss, some players bustola. We hope all the younger players improve, but I don't see more than one or two possible rising stars amongst them, and that's iffy.

Folks aren't calling Murphy and Allen sure-fire stars; they're just upset at letting young mid-level talent walk. You don't see it that way, but others do.
 

kerouac9

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People talk about Murphy and Allen like they are sure fire rising stars because we let them walk and at the same time talk about the young guys we still have as if they will never amount to anything.

There is a lot of young potential on this team. Especially on defense. Especially players already starting or likely to have significant roles. There's no reason Collins, Wilson, Simmons, Thompson, Sanders, Thomas etc can't make significant leaps and thrive in a new none Vance led scheme.
Who are these people? Murphy and Allen have already shown that they can be at least average starters in the NFL.

There is no reason those guys can’t make a leap under the new regime, but there also no reason to think they will. Some of them may get worse because they’re used differently and away from their skill sets.
 

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Who are these people?

You said literally just yesterday that Murphy "probably has his best football in front of him".

I could probably find another dozen posts from various people talking about them "ascending" or similar.

Yet nobody talks about our existing young players in the same way.
 

kerouac9

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You said literally just yesterday that Murphy "probably has his best football in front of him".

I could probably find another dozen posts from various people talking about them "ascending" or similar.

Yet nobody talks about our existing young players in the same way.
That’s a far cry from the “surefire rising star” language you’re accusing “people” of using.

No one’s talking about the players on the team now because the team sucked last year Abe many people were hoping to add some talent and maybe build the lines.

Plenty of people will be wondering aloud whether it’s so unlikely that Myjai Sander isn’t the next Haason Reddick after the draft.

It’s a long three months between the draft and training camp.
 
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