Week 5 of the Arizona Cardinals off season. 02/05/24-02/11/24

kerouac9

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Cards already have some of the cheapest tickets in the league. Do they offer a worse football experience than the Panthers, Bears, Jets, and a dozen other franchises that are more expensive?
People in Arizona aren't going to buy Bears tickets because the Cards raised their prices. They'll just continue to not show up to Arizona Cardinals games. This shouldn't be a hard thing to understand, honestly.

Michael is bleeding out the season ticket holders who have been willing to stay through the worst two-season stretch in like 30 years.
 

Chopper0080

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Cards already have some of the cheapest tickets in the league. Do they offer a worse football experience than the Panthers, Bears, Jets, and a dozen other franchises that are more expensive?
I have no idea. What I do know is they have a home fan attendance problem. At least enough that they have their media accounts and contacts comment on it regularly during the season. When you have a problem like this (or if you feel it is a problem) you have to determine how big of an issue it is and what steps are you willing to take to address it. Raising ticket prices for a team with a recent trend of losing doesn't seem like a plan to increase your home fan base. It is why I laugh at the protect the next marketing campaigns and the shame fan attendance tweets during the season.

Bidwill wants to run the franchise like the Cardinals are the Steelers except they have moved cities three times, have no titles, and are consistently an embarrassment.
 

kerouac9

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I have no idea. What I do know is they have a home fan attendance problem. At least enough that they have their media accounts and contacts comment on it regularly during the season. When you have a problem like this (or if you feel it is a problem) you have to determine how big of an issue it is and what steps are you willing to take to address it. Raising ticket prices for a team with a recent trend of losing doesn't seem like a plan to increase your home fan base. It is why I laugh at the protect the next marketing campaigns and the shame fan attendance tweets during the season.

Bidwill wants to run the franchise like the Cardinals are the Steelers except they have moved cities three times, have no titles, and are consistently an embarrassment.
He's just going to have Monti Ossenfort and Jonathan Gannon call the people on the fence about renewing.

Ideal use of resources.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Then they lose so many season ticket sales that they make little, if anything, and will have alienated a base of folks they should be counting on. Yes, by all means, raise prices, but not by 1/4.
According to the Internet, the average Cards ticket is $75...On a game sellout (63k), that's about $4.5 million per game, not including luxury suites. Let's say the average attendance drops to 50k per game (not super likely, no matter how bad they play because the stadium is still a destination for opposing fans), they are still taking in $3.75 million per game, again not including suites and also concessions. So playing poorly may cost the team $8 millionish in game day revenue for the season, which is chump change compared to other revenue streams, like TV.
 

Chopper0080

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According to the Internet, the average Cards ticket is $75...On a game sellout (63k), that's about $4.5 million per game, not including luxury suites. Let's say the average attendance drops to 50k per game (not super likely, no matter how bad they play because the stadium is still a destination for opposing fans), they are still taking in $3.75 million per game, again not including suites and also concessions. So playing poorly may cost the team $8 millionish in game day revenue for the season, which is chump change compared to other revenue streams, like TV.
And this is why I used the Amazon example. Some businesses will operate at a loss in some departments to achieve an overall goal. Sometimes it is just to have a market presence. If Bidwill was truly concerned with building local support for the Cardinals, there are avenues for him to take to do so and/or speed up the process. The reality is that he doesn't really care or at least, he cares to the point where he wants the best of both worlds.
 

kerouac9

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According to the Internet, the average Cards ticket is $75...On a game sellout (63k), that's about $4.5 million per game, not including luxury suites. Let's say the average attendance drops to 50k per game (not super likely, no matter how bad they play because the stadium is still a destination for opposing fans), they are still taking in $3.75 million per game, again not including suites and also concessions. So playing poorly may cost the team $8 millionish in game day revenue for the season, which is chump change compared to other revenue streams, like TV.
Actually, I think that 77% attendance would be optimistic for the games I watched last season (50k per game). The Rams game I attended was perhaps 2/3 full.
 

Crimson Warrior

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hmmm... I have hope for Wilson, truly, but I'm not sure 38 catches for 565 yards quite reaches the level of "stellar"

compare that to Fitz's rookie season - 58 for 780. Or Boldin's - 101 for 1377.

Wilson was 12th this year among rookie WRs in yardage (Puka Nacua 1st with an incredible 1486 yards on 105 catches)

Wilson was pretty explosive though. 14.9 YPC. Looking forward to seeing him in 2024.
 

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With regard to Michael Wilson, I think you have to remember that he practiced his entire rookie off-season and pre-season with sore-armed Colt McCoy and fellow rookie Clayton Tune. Then he played his first eight games with Josh Dobbs who was added to the roster one week before the first game. Finally, Kyler comes back and Wilson misses the next four weeks with a shoulder injury.

I'm not saying that Wilson will be stellar, but I think there's reason to believe that a full off-season and training camp with Kyler will boost his numbers significantly in his second pro season. I also think people underestimate his blocking contributions to our offensive scheme. He's a willing and able blocker on the edge.
 

Crimson Warrior

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With regard to Michael Wilson, I think you have to remember that he practiced his entire rookie off-season and pre-season with sore-armed Colt McCoy and fellow rookie Clayton Tune. Then he played his first eight games with Josh Dobbs who was added to the roster one week before the first game. Finally, Kyler comes back and Wilson misses the next four weeks with a shoulder injury.

I'm not saying that Wilson will be stellar, but I think there's reason to believe that a full off-season and training camp with Kyler will boost his numbers significantly in his second pro season. I also think people underestimate his blocking contributions to our offensive scheme. He's a willing and able blocker on the edge.

Understood!

Do you think Wilson makes Marquise "Hollywood" Brown expendable?
 

ajcardfan

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Actually, I think that 77% attendance would be optimistic for the games I watched last season (50k per game). The Rams game I attended was perhaps 2/3 full.
Yes, but basically almost all the tickets are sold.
 

Stout

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hmmm... I have hope for Wilson, truly, but I'm not sure 38 catches for 565 yards quite reaches the level of "stellar"

compare that to Fitz's rookie season - 58 for 780. Or Boldin's - 101 for 1377.

Wilson was 12th this year among rookie WRs in yardage (Puka Nacua 1st with an incredible 1486 yards on 105 catches)

Wilson was pretty explosive though. 14.9 YPC. Looking forward to seeing him in 2024.
Right? And "strong core of playmakers?" I was like "What, where?"
 

BritCard

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And this is why I used the Amazon example. Some businesses will operate at a loss in some departments to achieve an overall goal. Sometimes it is just to have a market presence. If Bidwill was truly concerned with building local support for the Cardinals, there are avenues for him to take to do so and/or speed up the process. The reality is that he doesn't really care or at least, he cares to the point where he wants the best of both worlds.

Dude, they have a fan problem, not a price problem.

We were 7-1 with the cheapest season tickets in the league and the stadium was packed with Green Bay fans.

I understand this is a primo opportunity for y'all darksiders to dump on the Org by pretending the economics of running a business don't exist and the Cards should be giving season tickets away, but the reality is your all just exposing yourself again for what you are.

What I know is that people like @Brian in Mesa and the other hardcore fans here that go to all the games will still be at the games. I may have missed it, but they don't seem to be the ones doing all the complaining.
 

BritCard

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Chopper0080

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Dude, they have a fan problem, not a price problem.

We were 7-1 with the cheapest season tickets in the league and the stadium was packed with Green Bay fans.

I understand this is a primo opportunity for y'all darksiders to dump on the Org by pretending the economics of running a business don't exist and the Cards should be giving season tickets away, but the reality is your all just exposing yourself again for what you are.

What I know is that people like @Brian in Mesa and the other hardcore fans here that go to all the games will still be at the games. I may have missed it, but they don't seem to be the ones doing all the complaining.
Dude, they have a winning problem. 35-63 since Arians left. They have 7 winning seasons out of the 36 seasons since they moved to AZ. That winning problem creates a fan problem. Great fan bases correlate with winning franchises. That is even more important when you have called three different states during your franchises history.

Also, as I would hope you would recognize, timing matters in business. Increasing ticket prices when you have won 8 games over the past two seasons is a bad look. Increasing ticket prices when you have pretty much ignored free agency for two seasons is a bad look. Increasing ticket prices when you have had multiple scandals over the past two years is a bad look. Increasing your ticket prices after you have jettisoned half of the recognizable players on the roster is a bad look. And all of these bad looks turn off fans which increases the fan problem. It isn't about what the Cardinals are doing, it is that they are so ignorant regarding how bad this looks doing it now. Just more Bidwill incompetence.
 

kerouac9

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Great fan bases correlate with winning franchises.

I agree with pretty much everything else you're saying, but this is a tough one to swallow. There are a lot of really good fan bases for terrible or middling franchises. There are franchises like the Rams who have been extremely good and mostly get 40% opponent attendance at their brand new stadium.

I think great traditions correlate with great fan bases, and Michael and team have done little to generate great tradition among the fan base, so you get memorable events like a season-ticket hike being especially salient.
 

football karma

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I think great traditions correlate with great fan bases, and Michael and team have done little to generate great tradition among the fan base, so you get memorable events like a season-ticket hike being especially salient.
in a town where nearly half the current population didnt live here 20 years ago.

i think many of those people are NFL fans and are open to supporting the Cardinals if they gave them a reason -- but in the meantime, they stick with their hometown or original team.

I think it takes a five year run of success -- to convert those people.
 

BritCard

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Dude, they have a winning problem. 35-63 since Arians left. They have 7 winning seasons out of the 36 seasons since they moved to AZ. That winning problem creates a fan problem. Great fan bases correlate with winning franchises. That is even more important when you have called three different states during your franchises history.

Also, as I would hope you would recognize, timing matters in business. Increasing ticket prices when you have won 8 games over the past two seasons is a bad look. Increasing ticket prices when you have pretty much ignored free agency for two seasons is a bad look. Increasing ticket prices when you have had multiple scandals over the past two years is a bad look. Increasing your ticket prices after you have jettisoned half of the recognizable players on the roster is a bad look. And all of these bad looks turn off fans which increases the fan problem. It isn't about what the Cardinals are doing, it is that they are so ignorant regarding how bad this looks doing it now. Just more Bidwill incompetence.

As I said above. The 25% rise was last season and we had this conversation last February.

I can't see anything online (or on here) that says prices have gone up 25% again this year.
 

kerouac9

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in a town where nearly half the current population didnt live here 20 years ago.

i think many of those people are NFL fans and are open to supporting the Cardinals if they gave them a reason -- but in the meantime, they stick with their hometown or original team.

I think it takes a five year run of success -- to convert those people.
I'm a Phoenix native and we've been saying that since they came here like 40 years ago (can't be that long, really).

There are tons of people who will go to games for free or would cheer for the Cards if they're not playing their real favorite team. That opens the door. But the Cards haven't done anything to keep the Southeast Valley from dumping them for Brock Purdy. What have they done to show the Cards fan base we're appreciated by them?

They stripped away the best Cardinals tradition -- training camp in Flagstaff. They built a sports book or something on a big portion of the Great Lawn. It's just a bad look.
 

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