Suns@Kings

[cly2tw]

The thrill is gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF85Lt_e4DQ

Great performance!!

 

[desertdawg]

Great performance!!

Hopefully my thread ninja will help me out on my non youtube posting skillz. (BIM)

 

[Covert Rain]

Gortat is probably better than Lopez, but he sure ain't good, at least not yet. His inability to secure rebounds in traffic is frightening, and he has no offensive game at all unless Nash is spoonfeeding him.

And yet....he is still better at both your points above then Lopez. Lopez can't secure rebounds period and Lopez has no post up game.

In terms of Gortat being spoon fed....at least he can catch spoon fed balls. If Lopez drops one more pass from Nash that is right in his hands I will chuck. Let's face it....Nash spoon feeds many guys on many nights on this team. If you were going to begrudge someone for being spoon fed...I am not sure having one of the top assist leaders on your team allows you to single one player out.

Also, not sure if you have been watching him. He has a nice baby hook and has hit several shots around the rim without assist by Nash. Something we see Lopez do about every 10 games.

Lopez is assisted on 74% of his shots versus Gortat's 57%.

He's generally more aware on defense than Lopez, and he probably deserves some credit for the Suns' overall good defense the last (almost) two games. On the other hand, a big part of defense is getting the rebound, and he killed the Suns in that department tonight.

Again...no more then Lopez. Lopez is averaging just under 4.5 rebounds per game.....most of that wonderful stats was earned pre-gortat when he was getting more minutes.

At least when Stoudemire wasn't rebounding, it's because he was 15 feet from the basket and already headed to the other end. Gortat clogs up space, making it more difficult for any of his teammates to participate in the rebounding battle, but comes up with only about 1/4 of the balls he gets his hands on.

Gortat is not the second coming of anything but he defends much better then Lopez. Lopez has one of the worst defensive pers amungst all active starting centers. Cousins was guarded by grant for a stretch and Frye. That was a team effort on not guarding that guy.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I didn't get to see the game but on the box score it says we lost on the boards 32 to 60? Good lord have mercy.

 

[dodie53]

thrill is gone

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm with slinslin on this one. Gortat is probably better than Lopez, but he sure ain't good, at least not yet. His inability to secure rebounds in traffic is frightening, and he has no offensive game at all unless Nash is spoonfeeding him. He's generally more aware on defense than Lopez, and he probably deserves some credit for the Suns' overall good defense the last (almost) two games. On the other hand, a big part of defense is getting the rebound, and he killed the Suns in that department tonight. At least when Stoudemire wasn't rebounding, it's because he was 15 feet from the basket and already headed to the other end. Gortat clogs up space, making it more difficult for any of his teammates to participate in the rebounding battle, but comes up with only about 1/4 of the balls he gets his hands on.

Everyone talked about what a great rebounder he was in Orlando. Why do they come here and suddenly suck at it?

 

[elindholm]

Everyone talked about what a great rebounder he was in Orlando. Why do they come here and suddenly suck at it?

Because he wasn't a great rebounder in Orlando. His per-minute rebound rate has gotten worse in every year of his career, and several people on this board pointed out right after the trade was made that the statistics did not support Gortat's reputation as a strong rebounder.

 

[BC867]

Everyone talked about what a great rebounder he was in Orlando. Why do they come here and suddenly suck at it?

Because of the Suns obsession with one legitimate big man on the floor. It is too much to ask of any Center or Power Forward.

 

[slinslin]

He's made that +/- comment several times in the past few days trying to prove that Gortat is horrible and that Lopez is better. Nothing in his comments suggest to me that he's actually watching the game. Perhaps he is but having watched the games myself I find it hard to believe anyone not named Lopez could consider Robin the better player.

The point is even with Robin Lopez being in a slump pretty much all year since his bulging disc the Suns are still generally playing better when he is on the floor. That is a fact.

 

[jagu]

Did the world end after this loss? Everyone taking shots from Gortat all the way down. Gortat has been solid , he of course needs someone other than Hill or Pietrus playing the 4 with him to be any more effective on rebounding. And Lopez has also played well and I don't get why everyone is ripping him to shreds when he plays 10-15 minutes per game nowadays. He has little impact. Gentry and the Suns need to wake up and realize that maybe their best lineup should be Gortat and Rolo since we are seriously lacking at the 4 when just Rolo or Gortat plays.

 

[JS22]

The point is even with Robin Lopez being in a slump pretty much all year since his bulging disc the Suns are still generally playing better when he is on the floor. That is a fact.

That's because Lopez is essentially playing with just the starters for 5 minutes at a time. He's constantly playing terrible defense and picking up stupid fouls, which leads to him being taken out of the game. Gortat is playing 30+ minutes with both the starters and bench players, which lowers his +/-.

Think of it this way, if Lopez was in during the last 6 minutes or so, when the Kings went on their crazy run, he'd have a negative +/- as well. That pretty much throws your +/- stat out the window.

Totally pointless stat.

 

[JS22]

One more thing. I have absolutely nothing against Lopez. I was thrilled when he and Amare were dominating last year. Finally, it looked like the Suns had a legit center. But his injuries and inability to be remotely coordinated has really taken the shine off of him this season.

 

[slinslin]

That's because Lopez is essentially playing with just the starters for 5 minutes at a time. He's constantly playing terrible defense and picking up stupid fouls, which leads to him being taken out of the game. Gortat is playing 30+ minutes with both the starters and bench players, which lowers his +/-.

Think of it this way, if Lopez was in during the last 6 minutes or so, when the Kings went on their crazy run, he'd have a negative +/- as well. That pretty much throws your +/- stat out the window.

Totally pointless stat.

It's not like that because the starters often have worse +/- than Lopez so that means they play worse when someone else is in.

 

[jagu]

It's not like that because the starters often have worse +/- than Lopez so that means they play worse when someone else is in.

Your +/- fetish is scarier than Gortat's pick and roll fetish.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not like that because the starters often have worse +/- than Lopez so that means they play worse when someone else is in.

Really? So we just discard the fact that because we are primarily a jump shooting team we tend to give up big leads late when the game turns more physical. Watch the games. Lopez is playing like he's the worst player. Not just the worst player on this team, the worst player ever, anywhere, any level, anytime, any freaking planet. A blind man could see it.

Steve

 

[jagu]

Really? So we just discard the fact that because we are primarily a jump shooting team we tend to give up big leads late when the game turns more physical. Watch the games. Lopez is playing like he's the worst player. Not just the worst player on this team, the worst player ever, anywhere, any level, anytime, any freaking planet. A blind man could see it.

Steve

Not if the blind man sees Channing Frye first.. I've watched every Suns game this year. Frye had turned a corner earlier but good god is he awful. Rolo isn't as bad as some of you people claim. Put him with a competent power forward and he will perform. He can't rebound when he has Mr. Softy Frye next to him at the PF and now who? Hill or Pietrus? Get real. Frye's 6 foot freaking 11 and has 1 block in his last 5 games. I rue the day we resigned this bum..

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not if the blind man sees Channing Frye first.. I've watched every Suns game this year. Frye had turned a corner earlier but good god is he awful. Rolo isn't as bad as some of you people claim. Put him with a competent power forward and he will perform. He can't rebound when he has Mr. Softy Frye next to him at the PF and now who? Hill or Pietrus? Get real. Frye's 6 foot freaking 11 and has 1 block in his last 5 games. I rue the day we resigned this bum..

Sorry - there's just no comparison. Frye is a slightly below average defender on his good days and Lopez is a horrible defender when he's breathing.

You could be right about Robin needing a competent big alongside him, certainly he played much better paired with Amare last year. However, we can't just magically create a good power forward to play alongside him. We have what we have and it isn't much. Frye has lost his confidence and his game offensively and that's definitely hurting us but Lopez is just flat out stupid when it comes to basketball.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

Your +/- fetish is scarier than Gortat's pick and roll fetish.

I don't care who you are, dats funny right there.

 

[JS22]

I'm still waiting for Gortat & Lopez to play together. I think the problem, though, is that Gortat doesn't have much (if any) of a jumper. So you've got 2 bigs who need to be near the basket to be effective. Lopez can occasionally hit the shot from 15, but I'm not sure how consistent he can be.

I'd be interested in running a lineup of:

Nash
Carter
Dudley
Gortat
Lopez

Dudley instead of Hill, mainly for spacing purposes. (I'm not on the "bench Hill" bandwagon at all.)

I think that would be a very, very, good defensive / rebounding lineup. But I'd guess teams wouldn't respect the jumper and just clog the lane every time Nash tries the P&R with either Gortat or Lopez.

 

[BC867]

However, we can't just magically create a good power forward to play alongside him. We have what we have and it isn't much.

Any legitimate Power Forward alongside Gortat and Lopez would be better than a 6'11" softy such as Frye or our various Small Forwards.

Of course we can trade for one, with our abundance of Small Forwards.

It would mean Sarver admitting bad decisions, but he already did in moving Hedo. So there should be nothing standing in the way of a skilled Front Office putting a couple of deals together for a starting and bench PF.

 

[JS22]

Any legitimate Power Forward alongside Gortat and Lopez would be better than a 6'11" softy such as Frye or our various Small Forwards.

Of course we can trade for one, with our abundance of Small Forwards.

It would mean Sarver admitting bad decisions, but he already did in moving Hedo. So there should be nothing standing in the way of a skilled Front Office putting a couple of deals together for a starting and bench PF.

I'd be happy to take a flyer on Randolph. He showed plenty of flashes in GS, but for some reason has completely fallen off the map in NY. Pairing him with Nash should do him wonders, and he seems to be an adequate rebounder.

One of our millions of small forwards and Orlando's draft pick. I wonder if NY would consider this.

 

[Chaplin]

Any legitimate Power Forward alongside Gortat and Lopez would be better than a 6'11" softy such as Frye or our various Small Forwards.

Of course we can trade for one, with our abundance of Small Forwards.

It would mean Sarver admitting bad decisions, but he already did in moving Hedo. So there should be nothing standing in the way of a skilled Front Office putting a couple of deals together for a starting and bench PF.

You seem to have this illusion that the league is full of great power forwards. Not sure where you get that from. Out of the 300-some players in the NBA, only about 20 are actual good Power Forwards. Funny thing is, as bad as Channing is, he's still the best long-range shooter at his position. Too bad it doesn't mean much.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What contender would need to trade for Nash?
Boston: Rondo
Miami: nothing to trade
Orlando: Nelson and Arenas
Dallas: Kidd
San Antonio: Parker and Hill
Utah: Williams
New Orleans: Paul
OKC: Westbrook
Denver: Billups and Lawson
LAL: run the triangle and in our division
Atlanta: maybe, but are they convinced Nash puts them over the top.

Even NY isn't an option anymore with the way Felton is playing. Unless one of the top teams has their point guard go down, I don't see how trading Nash is possible, unless we gift him to the Heat or Lakers.

I've always felt like Nash would be a GREAT fit up in Portland. He's got a guy who he can pick and roll with in Aldrige all day long, a JJ-esque shooting guard in Roy and Camby who can make up for all the times Nash's guy blows past him to get to the hole.

I'd take Batum, picks and an expiring for him and call it an era.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've always felt like Nash would be a GREAT fit up in Portland. He's got a guy who he can pick and roll with in Aldrige all day long, a JJ-esque shooting guard in Roy and Camby who can make up for all the times Nash's guy blows past him to get to the hole.

I'd take Batum, picks and an expiring for him and call it an era.

He probably would have but not so much, anymore. Roy's career could well be over and even if it's not, he'll likely never be a star again.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'd take Batum, picks and an expiring for him and call it an era.

Just what we need right? Another wing. This team is so FUBAR right now it can hardly be believed.