Super Spoiler T3 review/thread - enter at your own peril

[Dan H]

"It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you."
- Napolean Bonaparte

Wow. Let me preface this by saying that T3 is the best "event" flick of the summer. Better than Reloaded. Better than X2. Better than Hulk. The film is tight, well-paced, and pretty much a non-stop ride.

Nick Stahl is a great replacement for Furlong. He displays true angst as Connor wanders from one menial job to the next, living "off the grid" so as not to be tracked. He's a true example of the catch-22 of reining in Hell or serving in Heaven. Judgement Day has passed, and nothing happened. The flow of time has been changed. But life is suddenly without purpose. So what do you do when you're no longer the future king of the world? (hehe) Work construction, apparently.

While the destruction of the work at Cyberdyne delayed Judgement Day, it didn't totally stop it. I've heard some call this out as a plot weakness in the film, but really, it's not. First of all, what IT firm worth it's salt doesn't keep offsite backups? And secondly, if Judgement Day were never to happen, then how did the Terminators come back in the first place. Eliminating the existence of Skynet would cause a paradox.

So, upstream in the future, Skynet is alive and well. But, John Connor did an excellent job of staying "off the grid", and as a result, Skynet dispatches the T-X, a hybrid endoskeleton with a tasy candy shell . . . err, memetic poly alloy shell, that is, a la T-1000. Plus she brought some nifty ray guns from the future, too. Well prepared, because, as we're later told, the T-X is, in fact, an 'anti-terminator terminator'. Guess there's a few hackers going around in 2039.

The plot becomes, in my opinion, rather brilliant here. Unable to locate Connor, Skynet elects to assassinate 22 of his best subordinates. This is genius simply because an army is only as good as it's command structure. So we're treated to a few scenes of the T-X offing some teenagers who have no idea what's in store for them.

Anyway, shenagians, explosions, car chases, crane chases, beta-test Terminators run amock, and a computer virus combine to make one whopper of the flick. It's chock full of homages to the first few films - Arnold shooting up cop cars, a Terminator being crushed in a press, and a few nifty catch phrases. I am not ******** you. Talk to the hand.

James Cameron really screwed up, in my opinion, by not putting aside his personal grievances (with Kassar and Vajna) and doing this project. And that's fine, really, because Jonathan Mostow does as good a job here as Cameron did with T2. The special effects are superb, and the CGI is nigh seamless. It actually is a good thing, because there's some well-placed humor.

But the grins end pretty quickly in the film's closing act. The machines take over. The missiles fly. Billions die.

That's right. Everybody dies, making the heroics of the first two films an exercise in futility - save for the fact that the important persons survive.

Fate, it seems is a fickle beast, and the closing scenes of Nick Stahl and Claire Danes safe and secure inside a Presidential fallout shelter while the bombs fall are truly heart wrenching. The desperate calls for help over the shelter's command circuits just twist the knife a little deeper.

I've heard people say that the ending is a shameless opening for a sequel, but I disagree. It could go either way. We already know from the first film that the battle is won. The series could close on the low note of the third film and be adequately completed . . . but just between you and me, wouldn't it be pretty bomb-ass to see two hours of stuff like we got in the first few minutes of T2 and T3?

 

[Chaplin]

I really liked it as well. This was the slam-bang non-stop action that Matrix wanted to be without all the overblown philosophical mumbo-jumbo.

Is it better than X2? Well, I think they are different movies. I liked X2 (better than the first), but X2 made it by with several different characters--T3 basically had 4.

Reviews of the film consistently said that the script was good--I have to agree--this is the best script of all three movies. It certainly isn't as basic and primal as the first film, and isn't as innovative as T2 (thanks to updated CGI and the fact that we're "used" to it), but T3 on its own stands out.

In fact, I will go out on a limb here, and taking it from a quality standpoint, the Terminator trilogy might just be the best trilogy of movies ever made. All three are better than Return of the Jedi, Lethal Weapon 3, Beverly Hills Cop 3, Godfather 3, Back to the Future 2, and the last 2 Jurassic Park films. Think about it.

 

[Bob Chebat]

I have some questions that maybe a second viewing will answer, or then again, maybe someone here can answer them.

Why was the Terminatrix trying to kill Kate's (Claire Danes) father? Was it because he knew where the safe haven was and she was trying to prevent him from telling Kate and John? I cannot think of any other reason. If anything, the machines owed their own fate to him. He was the one who made their existance possible. Any other insight on this part of the plot line would be appreciated.

I also did not understand the "anti-terminator terminator" discussion. I think I wandered off for a moment and missed something.

I really did enjoy this one. As Chaplin said, this is everything the Matrix Reloaded tried to be. There was just enough story to keep you occupied between action sequences. I will definitely be giving this one a second look very soon.

Was this the best trilogy ever? It certainly ranks up there, but I am still partial to Indiana Jones.

What an ending too. For once, they get it right. No happy ending where they save the day and rescue humanity. Throughout the whole movie, they emphasize the fact that the future is written and it cannot be changed, and lo and behold, they did not change it and delay the inevitable. The mission was to keep John and Kate alive, and that mission was successful.

I am ready for the next chapter though where we find out exactly how John Connor defeats the machines in the future.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Bob Chebat
I have some questions that maybe a second viewing will answer, or then again, maybe someone here can answer them.

Why was the Terminatrix trying to kill Kate's (Claire Danes) father? Was it because he knew where the safe haven was and she was trying to prevent him from telling Kate and John? I cannot think of any other reason. If anything, the machines owed their own fate to him. He was the one who made their existance possible. Any other insight on this part of the plot line would be appreciated.

I also did not understand the "anti-terminator terminator" discussion. I think I wandered off for a moment and missed something.

Okay, the way I figure it is that not only is what you wrote part of the reason, but I thought that the T-101 said that she would go to her father because she had lost Kate--and so, she goes to get her father--perhaps to draw her out--anything to complete her objective.

John was just trying to understand what the T-X was. Arnold said it was a machine designed to take out other machines--thus the "anti-terminator terminator".

 

[Dan H]

Originally posted by Chaplin
John was just trying to understand what the T-X was. Arnold said it was a machine designed to take out other machines--thus the "anti-terminator terminator".

Perhaps because of Conner's knack at repgramming captured T-101s?

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Just got back from watching this great flick at the Cine Capri in Scottsdale...WOW!

First off, the new theater rules, the curtain is just classic, I loved it. Sound blows you away...I will be there for ROTK and Revolutions.

On to the movie...all of you said many of the right things here, I loved the story, and the ending was great...fooled you into thinking they were going to blow it up, instead, it's a safe haven for them.

I loved all the characters, the acting was great, the new John Connor just much better than the first.

However, no one seems to have mentioned much of the humor of this movie...I remember laughing out loud many times in this flick...the star sunglasses, the clever lines, etc. So many good, smart, humorous parts, mostly references to the first two movies, made it that much better.

The cameo by the psychiatrist from the first one...classic!

And like Chap said, the CGI isn't anything we haven't seen before, but some of the action was just awesome. I mean, a crane racing down the street, and the way Arnold stops it by dropping the hook in the sewer...that was just plain AWESOME!

I am pumped for T4...if they can do for that what they did for this one, then it should rock.

So far, this has been my favorite movie of the year, aside from maybe X2...of course, I already know ROTK will end up my favorite in December

Mike

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Bob Chebat

I am ready for the next chapter though where we find out exactly how John Connor defeats the machines in the future.

The coolest part of the next one will somehow be the fact that John Connor was killed in the future by the T3 Arnold...so I wonder if that becomes the main story in the next movie?

Mike

 

[FischerKing]

Excellent movie!!!! I too was at the new Cine Capri where Mike saw it - coincidence or planned...? I'll never tell.

Although there was some joker laughing extremely loud at weird spots of the movie see post above. Just kidding - there were some very humours parts in the movie and I loved all the tips of the hat to the previous flicks.

I didn't notice a couple of minor plot holes - but like the Back to the Future series - I think anytime Time Travel becomes part of the plot then it's really unaviodable. Having said that, I can definitely handle it and it wasn't a distraction at all.

The CGI was outstanding as were all the action sequences. I'll have to agree with Mike that the Crane chase scene was just totally cool. It was so very.

Cine Capri was the best place in the world to see it - well, at least in Arizona. It's was mind-blowing. The nostalgia of the curtains being back - the huge screen and the even bigger sound - that alone made it worth the price of admission if the movie had sucked. I'm glad that it didn't though - it made it just that much more special.

Shawn

 

[vince56]

Saw T3 last night, really liked it, but I don't understand why people who complained about the dialogue from AOTC and Matrix Reloaded aren't complaining about this one. The action scenes were fantastic and the storyline was good. The movie was very dark and very well done, but the Terminator cracking jokes was cool the 1st or 2nd time it happened, but it didn't stop and that really brought me out of the moment of the movie. His "talk to the hand" line was amusing, but totally did not fit the movie.

All in all great film, but take my opinion with a grain of salt, I loved all 5 Star Wars movies, and I thought the thoughtful philosophical aspects of Reloaded made it head and shoulders above other action films.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by vince56
His "talk to the hand" line was amusing, but totally did not fit the movie.

Did you see Terminator 2? That line was TOTALLY fitting for the movie. In T2, he was constantly learning new lines and using them.

I thought it was a good joke...maybe a teeny bit overboard, but still, it was definitely part of the tone of the last one.


Mike

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Chandler Mike
Did you see Terminator 2? That line was TOTALLY fitting for the movie. In T2, he was constantly learning new lines and using them.

I thought it was a good joke...maybe a teeny bit overboard, but still, it was definitely part of the tone of the last one.


Mike

Yeah, I also didn't really have a problem with the one-liners. What else would have been better? Arnold playing it straight? I think there was a fairly good blend of one-liners and seriousness that it worked. Otherwise, wouldn't Arnold's Terminator be just incredibly boring?

 

[Shane]

All I can say is AWESOME!

I loved this movie! A non-stop adventure for sure!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow - all you guys did enjoy Terminator and T2 - right? I'm not sure I understand the poraise for this movie all the way around. It just felt incredibly empty to me. Arnold's entrance was horrible - nothing memorable - not "wash day, nothing clean right" to go along with the pummeling of punk trash - or his utter desturction of the bikers. No this was the nice and tidy Terminator who only killed machines and looked like he was about 60 years old. As far as the T-X was concerned, yeah she was ridiculously hot, but at no time did she EVER bring the fear that the original Terminator or the T-1000 did. The action was alright, decent enough -but nothing that made my jaw drop like the the action of T2, nor were the characters people I cared about like Sarah and Reese in the first one.

Also -why the hell did the computers decide to send the T-X back the night before SKYNET was going to take over the world - I mean think about - the computers are going to give tyhemselves a tiny window - knowing what the future is at that point that Joh would somehow survive the blast right? Now considering what had happened in the past and future with Joh being able to send Terminatorsd and Reece to protect two earlier times, wouldn't they predict that another protector would be sent back -why give yourself only a matter of hours to kill him? I mean, the other terminator is the one who says - Oh, By the Way - the world's going to end in three hours we need to get you to safety - if he wasn't there - how would John have ever hid? I mean did the computers force John to survive in essence? That's pretty stupid to me -also things just seemed to happen so conveniently - Arnold just happening to show up at the animal shelter; Arnold and the agng showing up to a secure location for the Navy during a time of crisis - especially when Arnold was responsible for the incredible destruction of years previous. Too easy - everything came to easy.

Also - the movie never gave Arnold a chance to BE ARNOLD - his taglines were ridiculous - I'M BACK? SHE'LL BE BACK? These seemed like lines a Terminator meets Airplane would have had.

The movie was passable entertainment, but in no way could be even close to measured against T1 and T2 and personally I saw no reason for this movie ever to be made - although I think it sets up what could be an interesting last movie - but aren't we pretty much going to see the Humans defeat the machines in REVOLUTIONS? Arnold's tired and so is this franchise and the further away from this movie I get, the more I wish Arnold would retire and try to get into politics - at least then we'd only have to see him on a 32 inch screen saying bad lines, rather than on a 30 foot screen in THX.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cheesebeef


Also -why the hell did the computers decide to send the T-X back the night before SKYNET was going to take over the world - I mean think about - the computers are going to give tyhemselves a tiny window - knowing what the future is at that point that Joh would somehow survive the blast right? Now considering what had happened in the past and future with Joh being able to send Terminatorsd and Reece to protect two earlier times, wouldn't they predict that another protector would be sent back -why give yourself only a matter of hours to kill him? I mean, the other terminator is the one who says - Oh, By the Way - the world's going to end in three hours we need to get you to safety - if he wasn't there - how would John have ever hid? I mean did the computers force John to survive in essence? That's pretty stupid to me -also things just seemed to happen so conveniently - Arnold just happening to show up at the animal shelter; Arnold and the agng showing up to a secure location for the Navy during a time of crisis - especially when Arnold was responsible for the incredible destruction of years previous. Too easy - everything came to easy.

Well, I figured it was that in the first 2, the Terminator had to search for their prey. In this one, they pretty much knew where exactly there targets were. Because everything changes the next day.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Well, I figured it was that in the first 2, the Terminator had to search for their prey. In this one, they pretty much knew where exactly there targets were. Because everything changes the next day.

Uh - wasn't the primary mission to find and kill/protect John Connor? And weren't his whereabouts unknown TO EVERYONE? I mean the T-X didn't even kill Brewster because she wanted to kill John first right and needed the info? And Arnold was specifically sent back to protect John and then Brewster next - their secondary missions were to protect the generals - but the main goal was still John - and there were no records of him anywhere apparently as he had started living "off the grid". I could nitpick about a whole lot of stuff - it just seems like when you take someone's baby (Cameron's first two movies) -you better play by the same rules - because in essence everything that happened in the second movie was completely useless. That bothers me a lot - I mean wasn't Dyson the one who said - ALL THE BACKUPs were at the lab - didn't they blow all of that up? Yes there was that arm in the steel refinery that as left over -but it wasn't addressed. That would have been interesting - how did Skynet rebuild itself so fast - when the entire reason it existed was because of the machinery from the first Terminator(as Dyson had said - which is in of itself a paradox) - but they wiped all that out with a single line of "it just pushed the evolution of the system back" - to me that's a freaking cop-out and rather try and figure out a way to make sense of it - they just basically sh*t on the second movie.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Uh - wasn't the primary mission to find and kill/protect John Connor? And weren't his whereabouts unknown TO EVERYONE? I mean the T-X didn't even kill Brewster because she wanted to kill John first right and needed the info? And Arnold was specifically sent back to protect John and then Brewster next - their secondary missions were to protect the generals - but the main goal was still John - and there were no records of him anywhere apparently as he had started living "off the grid". I could nitpick about a whole lot of stuff - it just seems like when you take someone's baby (Cameron's first two movies) -you better play by the same rules - because in essence everything that happened in the second movie was completely useless. That bothers me a lot - I mean wasn't Dyson the one who said - ALL THE BACKUPs were at the lab - didn't they blow all of that up? Yes there was that arm in the steel refinery that as left over -but it wasn't addressed. That would have been interesting - how did Skynet rebuild itself so fast - when the entire reason it existed was because of the machinery from the first Terminator(as Dyson had said - which is in of itself a paradox) - but they wiped all that out with a single line of "it just pushed the evolution of the system back" - to me that's a freaking cop-out and rather try and figure out a way to make sense of it - they just basically sh*t on the second movie.

The reason they found him was because he broke into that Veterinarian Clinic, and was captured by the girl...she probably called the cops, turned him in and that's how they finally found out where he was.

But Arnold and the new Terminator showed up before she could do that.

Mike

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Uh - wasn't the primary mission to find and kill/protect John Connor? And weren't his whereabouts unknown TO EVERYONE? I mean the T-X didn't even kill Brewster because she wanted to kill John first right and needed the info? And Arnold was specifically sent back to protect John and then Brewster next - their secondary missions were to protect the generals - but the main goal was still John - and there were no records of him anywhere apparently as he had started living "off the grid". I could nitpick about a whole lot of stuff - it just seems like when you take someone's baby (Cameron's first two movies) -you better play by the same rules - because in essence everything that happened in the second movie was completely useless. That bothers me a lot - I mean wasn't Dyson the one who said - ALL THE BACKUPs were at the lab - didn't they blow all of that up? Yes there was that arm in the steel refinery that as left over -but it wasn't addressed. That would have been interesting - how did Skynet rebuild itself so fast - when the entire reason it existed was because of the machinery from the first Terminator(as Dyson had said - which is in of itself a paradox) - but they wiped all that out with a single line of "it just pushed the evolution of the system back" - to me that's a freaking cop-out and rather try and figure out a way to make sense of it - they just basically sh*t on the second movie.

The TX didn't come back in search of John Connor--she came back to assassinate his lieutenants. And thanks to "movie fate", John Connor happened to be in the clinic where Kate worked. What a lucky break! (And that's really what it was as far as the TX is concerned)

As for the other Terminator--I'm assuming the whole time paradox is the deal there--as Kate must have known that Connor would be in the clinic in the future, so she told Arnold to go to the clinic at that time because she KNEW that Connor would be there...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Chaplin
The TX didn't come back in search of John Connor--she came back to assassinate his lieutenants. And thanks to "movie fate", John Connor happened to be in the clinic where Kate worked. What a lucky break! (And that's really what it was as far as the TX is concerned)

As for the other Terminator--I'm assuming the whole time paradox is the deal there--as Kate must have known that Connor would be in the clinic in the future, so she told Arnold to go to the clinic at that time because she KNEW that Connor would be there...

Yeah - lucky break on the first one and what you said as far as the second point makes sense too - I still don't like the overall ignoring of everything that was done in the last half of T2 - but I still think that the machines going back the day before the ruin of civilization was just a way to "raise the stakes" and "sense oof urgency" (hate those terms) and nothing by the way of story wise. Just a little too much "movie fate" going on for me. But, I'll probably see the next one opening weekend because I am still a sucker for Arnold hoping one day, he comes back to kicking ass. This movie just didn't do it for me.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Yeah - lucky break on the first one and what you said as far as the second point makes sense too - I still don't like the overall ignoring of everything that was done in the last half of T2 - but I still think that the machines going back the day before the ruin of civilization was just a way to "raise the stakes" and "sense oof urgency" (hate those terms) and nothing by the way of story wise. Just a little too much "movie fate" going on for me. But, I'll probably see the next one opening weekend because I am still a sucker for Arnold hoping one day, he comes back to kicking ass. This movie just didn't do it for me.

Well, we definitely agree to disagree on this one...

I actually liked Arnold in this one. I actually thought when he came close to killing Connor in the airplane hanger was the best bit of acting Arnold did in the entire series (which isn't saying much).

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Yeah - lucky break on the first one and what you said as far as the second point makes sense too - I still don't like the overall ignoring of everything that was done in the last half of T2 - but I still think that the machines going back the day before the ruin of civilization was just a way to "raise the stakes" and "sense oof urgency" (hate those terms) and nothing by the way of story wise. Just a little too much "movie fate" going on for me. But, I'll probably see the next one opening weekend because I am still a sucker for Arnold hoping one day, he comes back to kicking ass. This movie just didn't do it for me.

Honestly, how realistic are any of these movies? Once they found out the terminator in T2 failed, why not send another back? Or 2? Or three of them? Or an army to kill John?

I've always thought that myself.

Mike

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by Chandler Mike
Honestly, how realistic are any of these movies? Once they found out the terminator in T2 failed, why not send another back? Or 2? Or three of them? Or an army to kill John?

I've always thought that myself.

Mike

What do you mean Mike? You question the realism of a movie where the terminator model (although the same as the one from part 2) remembered the things John taught him in part 2 even though he was melted and didn't go back in time?

Or the fact that John Connor can physically lead the revolution against the machines when more than likely he is trapped in the safe haven due to cave-in from a very large explosion (as seen earlier in the film) WHEN THE 18 INCH THICK STEEL DOOR IS STILL OPEN?? Then there's the whole nuclear winter thing...

How dare you question the realism Mike?!

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Evil Ash
What do you mean Mike? You question the realism of a movie where the terminator model (although the same as the one from part 2) remembered the things John taught him in part 2 even though he was melted and didn't go back in time?

Or the fact that John Connor can physically lead the revolution against the machines when more than likely he is trapped in the safe haven due to cave-in from a very large explosion (as seen earlier in the film) WHEN THE 18 INCH THICK STEEL DOOR IS STILL OPEN?? Then there's the whole nuclear winter thing...

How dare you question the realism Mike?!

Yeah, my bad, not sure what I was thinking...



Mike

 

[Chaplin]

IN MY OPINION, Realism is overrated.

 

[mdamien13]

Totally dug this movie. THIS is what a popcorn movie is supposed to be. A few plot holes but nothing that I really kept me from having a good time. My biggest problem was the magically bulletproof coffin. And why would a SWAT team concentrate their fire on a coffin in the first place, anyway? I'd shoot that big guy holding a .50 caliber. I take it that the blast door was shut after Ah-nuld set off the hydrogen bomb. Kristanna Loken did an excellent job as the T-X and Ah-nuld did a great job as well. Was a few plot holes away from being a great movie but it was still damn good. How refreshing is it to see action scenes that aren't set to trendy music with constant breaks for slow motion?

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Chaplin
IN MY OPINION, Realism is overrated.

Mike