Bengals at Cardinals gameday thread 10-8-23

GeorgiaCard88

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I'm having a tough time seeing many positives in this loss. It just seemed like a truly bad team losing a game to a good team starting to find its footing.

What stuck out to me the most was the lack of involvement of the young guys today outside of Demercado and Stills. Antonio Hamilton started over Clark. Michael Wilson wasn't targeted until the last 2 minutes. McBride failed to top 20 yards receiving again. Cam Thomas appears to have regressed since last year. It would be different if we were watching a bunch of young players trying to develop, but instead we are watching Zeke Turner get run over by RBs for the 6th year in a row.

Maybe I, like many others here, have set the bar so low that I am please with moves in the right direction instead of a complete performance.

Would be interesting to evaluate, maybe in a separate post, the players with 1-3 years of experience on this team and where they are at/what they are contributing. Regarding the guys you mentioned:
-Wilson- would love to see this guy involved more, too early in the season to dump on him, I think he had a very quiet game but has overall been trending up
-Clark- honestly, have seen enough from Clark to say, I think his ceiling is back up/dime corner with special teams involvement. What more can you expect really from a 6th round pick? He is not the corner of the future - our CB room is just in dire straights

McBride- 100% correct, where is this guy? It’s tough watching Laporte on the lions tearing it up, but McBride barely showing a blip on the radar in his second year. I said it earlier, one of my biggest concerns coming out of preseason is we heard almost zero chatter about McBride. Worried this guy won’t emerge to what his draft stock is/what we need him to be

Cam Thomas- also looking like another keim masterful draft pick. Not sure where this guys future is with the team, but at least for now hasn’t seemed like a bedrock for the future. More of a depth/role player guy
 

BritCard

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Zone coverage. He covers his zone and passes his guy along the way. That was on Wallace

There was nobody in his zone. Nobody on his side of the field. And it's clear from the snap that nobody is leaking out that way.

He should turn and track Chase. You can't leave Chase 1 vs 1 with a backup safety.

He starts to turn in case Chase run behinds him but when he sees he's running inside just gives up. That's not how zone works.

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WisconsinCard

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Our secondary with Budda out and then Thompson going down today is in rough shape. Clark a promising rookie that is learning. Wilson is just bad and Hamilton is a barely acceptable backup. A receiver like Chase salivates vs this secondary.
Agreed, I know that CB's have some day in where they are aligned, but coaches need to step and tell Wilson what he's doing isn't working. I suspect he is concerned about getting beat over the top, hence the large cousin.
 

Chopper0080

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I'm having a tough time seeing many positives in this loss. It just seemed like a truly bad team losing a game to a good team starting to find its footing.

What stuck out to me the most was the lack of involvement of the young guys today outside of Demercado and Stills. Antonio Hamilton started over Clark. Michael Wilson wasn't targeted until the last 2 minutes. McBride failed to top 20 yards receiving again. Cam Thomas appears to have regressed since last year. It would be different if we were watching a bunch of young players trying to develop, but instead we are watching Zeke Turner get run over by RBs for the 6th year in a row.
Wilson got Dobbs'd.

Clark still got snaps.

McBride is getting relegated for Ertz. (take that however you want to)

Cam has always looked better as a 4-3 DE. He was only going to look better if he played in an even front which he hasn't.

It is what it is. An example of why building through the draft is tough.
 

Chopper0080

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Maybe I, like many others here, have set the bar so low that I am please with moves in the right direction instead of a complete performance.

Would be interesting to evaluate, maybe in a separate post, the players with 1-3 years of experience on this team and where they are at/what they are contributing. Regarding the guys you mentioned:
-Wilson- would love to see this guy involved more, too early in the season to dump on him, I think he had a very quiet game but has overall been trending up
-Clark- honestly, have seen enough from Clark to say, I think his ceiling is back up/dime corner with special teams involvement. What more can you expect really from a 6th round pick? He is not the corner of the future - our CB room is just in dire straights

McBride- 100% correct, where is this guy? It’s tough watching Laporte on the lions tearing it up, but McBride barely showing a blip on the radar in his second year. I said it earlier, one of my biggest concerns coming out of preseason is we heard almost zero chatter about McBride. Worried this guy won’t emerge to what his draft stock is/what we need him to be

Cam Thomas- also looking like another keim masterful draft pick. Not sure where this guys future is with the team, but at least for now hasn’t seemed like a bedrock for the future. More of a depth/role player guy
TEs are only good if you use them. The Cardinals are using a TE, but his name is not McBride. There is not a #2 TE in the league who is really thriving outside of Jonnu Smith.
 

Chopper0080

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Agreed, I know that CB's have some day in where they are aligned, but coaches need to step and tell Wilson what he's doing isn't working. I suspect he is concerned about getting beat over the top, hence the large cousin.
This is what happens when you don't have a pass rush. Wilson isn't going to risk getting embarrassed on a big play when the rush isn't getting there. (especially for coaches who preach limiting explosives)
 

kerouac9

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This is what happens when you don't have a pass rush. Wilson isn't going to risk getting embarrassed on a big play when the rush isn't getting there. (especially for coaches who preach limiting explosives)
Also the safeties are so bad that even if he’s assigned help it probably won’t arrive.

If only there’s been a way to keep one more talented young cornerback on the roster…
 

AZfaninMN

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There was nobody in his zone. Nobody on his side of the field. And it's clear from the snap that nobody is leaking out that way.

He should turn and track Chase. You can't leave Chase 1 vs 1 with a backup safety.

He starts to turn in case Chase run behinds him but when he sees he's running inside just gives up. That's not how zone works.

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Boyd runs a 3 yard out on his side, but if he vacates his zone to follow chase there’s no one there. They highlighted it in the broadcast about Wallace keying on the underneath route and leaving his deep 3rd empty. That’s exactly how a zone defense works. You cover your zone and force the qb to throw through the holes in the zone. Him following chase would be man coverage.
 

BritCard

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Boyd runs a 3 yard out on his side, but if he vacates his zone to follow chase there’s no one there. They highlighted it in the broadcast about Wallace keying on the underneath route and leaving his deep 3rd empty. That’s exactly how a zone defense works. You cover your zone and force the qb to throw through the holes in the zone. Him following chase would be man coverage.

There's a linebacker there and he's closer. By the time Boyd gets to that position Marco has already bailed and is 20 yards away anyway.

Marco does neither one nor the other. I don't know what this coverage is but it's garbage. Looks to me like they thought it was run based off the personal and alignment and maybe the call was for Marco to stay in the run fit for that side, but it becomes instantly clear that this is a pass play and from the way Chase takes off Marco should be thinking "Oh crap I best stick with Chase".

The LB has Boyd in the flat. Marco ends up defending air. Competent CB's identify that and stick with Chase.

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Krangodnzr

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Also the safeties are so bad that even if he’s assigned help it probably won’t arrive.

If only there’s been a way to keep one more talented young cornerback on the roster…
You must not be paying to attention to the Minnesota Vikings this year and how bad Byron Murphy is outside of Vance Joseph's scheme that some how made the corners look better than they are, but couldn't rush the passer.
 

kerouac9

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He didn’t have a choice. The Dline had no push and the corners were getting burned. Didn’t help our safeties are backups.

Our lack of talent and depth especially on D will make for a long season.

This is the true tank. If you want to make sure you can't close out games, load your roster with the most anonymous IDL imaginable.
 

kerouac9

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You must not be paying to attention to the Minnesota Vikings this year and how bad Byron Murphy is outside of Vance Joseph's scheme that some how made the corners look better than they are, but couldn't rush the passer.
He's allowed zero TDs in coverage through four games, according to PFR.

Seems like we could use a guy like that.
 

Jasper

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This is the true tank. If you want to make sure you can't close out games, load your roster with the most anonymous IDL imaginable.
The whole nation knows its a tank. Whoever believes otherwise is just dreaming.

We’ve been lucky to compete, come close in games, even beat Dallas. Roster had to be torn down and isn’t conplete.
 

phillycard

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Our secondary with Budda out and then Thompson going down today is in rough shape. Clark a promising rookie that is learning. Wilson is just bad and Hamilton is a barely acceptable backup. A receiver like Chase salivates vs this secondary.
I've had it with Chachere. My lord he's atrocious.
 

AZfaninMN

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There's a linebacker there and he's closer. By the time Boyd gets to that position Marco has already bailed and is 20 yards away anyway.

Marco does neither one nor the other. I don't know what this coverage is but it's garbage. Looks to me like they thought it was run based off the personal and alignment and maybe the call was for Marco to stay in the run fit for that side, but it becomes instantly clear that this is a pass play and from the way Chase takes off Marco should be thinking "Oh crap I best stick with Chase".

The LB has Boyd in the flat. Marco ends up defending air. Competent CB's identify that and stick with Chase.

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It’s cover 3. Marco has the hash to the sideline (bottom). Chachere(sp?) has between the hashes. Wallace the hash to sideline(top). When chase leaves the hash the safety picks him up. It doesn’t matter if a receiver leaves your zone, you don’t follow. That’s basics when playing zone coverage. Blown coverages happen every game from a player following a receiver that leaves their zone and leads to wide open big gainers.


Here’s an attached explanation of roles and responsibilities for players plus a couple diagrams of where they play
 

BritCard

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It’s cover 3. Marco has the hash to the sideline (bottom). Chachere(sp?) has between the hashes. Wallace the hash to sideline(top). When chase leaves the hash the safety picks him up. It doesn’t matter if a receiver leaves your zone, you don’t follow. That’s basics when playing zone coverage. Blown coverages happen every game from a player following a receiver that leaves their zone and leads to wide open big gainers.


Here’s an attached explanation of roles and responsibilities for players plus a couple diagrams of where they play

In Cover 3 the cornerbacks have no underneath responsibility. The 3 linebackers and the strong safety have the under.

The responsibility of all CB's is to cover the deep ball with the free safety as the extra man. You don't just let the WR1 and a top 5 WR in the league free release against your FS.

The CB's only responsibility in cover 3 is to stay on top of the deep route, even if something may come open underneath. The under doesn't exist to them until the ball is thrown.

What you definitely don't do is let the WR1 blaze past you while staring into space. Especially in this look when the only WR on your side of the field is your responsibility.

If you have nobody else to cover then you man match your receiver. That's how defenses play Cover 3 now. Nobody just lets the WR run behind them while standing there with nothing else to do.

There's no way Rallis has the rules set up to say "You just cover your outside 3rd of grass even if there is nobody running in it". Nobody does that anymore.

With only 1 WR on his side of the field that can possible run a deep route Wilson should be sticking with him and has he has no flat responsibilities he should really know that as soon as he sees Chases release.
 

AZfaninMN

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In Cover 3 the cornerbacks have no underneath responsibility. The 3 linebackers and the strong safety have the under.

The responsibility of all CB's is to cover the deep ball with the free safety as the extra man. You don't just let the WR1 and a top 5 WR in the league free release against your FS.

The CB's only responsibility in cover 3 is to stay on top of the deep route, even if something may come open underneath. The under doesn't exist to them until the ball is thrown.

What you definitely don't do is let the WR1 blaze past you while staring into space. Especially in this look when the only WR on your side of the field is your responsibility.

If you have nobody else to cover then you man match your receiver. That's how defenses play Cover 3 now. Nobody just lets the WR run behind them while standing there with nothing else to do.

There's no way Rallis has the rules set up to say "You just cover your outside 3rd of grass even if there is nobody running in it". Nobody does that anymore.

With only 1 WR on his side of the field that can possible run a deep route Wilson should be sticking with him and has he has no flat responsibilities he should really know that as soon as he sees Chases release.
There’s different variations to cover 3. There’s some when the the strong safety rolls over the top of the corner and takes the deep third over the corner who’s responsibility is the flat.

In zone coverage you pass off receivers from your zone onto the next.

If Marco does what you’re suggesting he does and Tyler Boyd leaks out late, like he does and runs a straight go, he’s gone. The linebacker wouldn’t be able to keep up with him and it’s a blown coverage. If Wallace sticks in his deep 3rd he undercuts that route and makes an int or at the least a PBU.

Marco had a very rough game against a very good WR, but this wasn’t his fault.
 
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