Draft Is cool, but free agency is first.

Stout

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Holding his “injury problems” against him isn’t fair. I think it’s unreasonable for a RB, especially for ones that been in the league for 3+ years, to play 17 straight games nowadays. Even the top RBs like Henry, Chubb, Kamara, CMC, Cook, Mixon, Hunt, etc have all missed games due to injury in that time span.

That being said, I’d rather keep Chase if there was a choice. He offers more than James.
It's absolutely fair because he's had a lot of injury problems and missed too many games with them. Same with Chase. I don't offer either of them big money, or more than league average. As you always say, easy come, easy go with RBs. I like the things that they do, but they still have the same warts, especially injuries.
 

Stout

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He's not taking $10m for 3 years. He has a 1400 yard season and there are guys never made 1000 yards getting more. Kirk will be one of them.
He might not have a choice. There's always a chance a team will overspend, but that 1400 yard season is ancient history in the NFL. He came off a 1-year, I believe 8 mill prove it deal, and he proved that he can get hurt and little else. His stock is in the basement.
 

DVontel

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It's absolutely fair because he's had a lot of injury problems and missed too many games with them. Same with Chase. I don't offer either of them big money, or more than league average. As you always say, easy come, easy go with RBs. I like the things that they do, but they still have the same warts, especially injuries.
Reading this, I don’t know why you were banging the table for Najee last year, lol.
 

TheCardFan

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Reading this, I don’t know why you were banging the table for Najee last year, lol.

I know you don't respond to me anymore but appreciate your insightful posts.

I was on the Najee bus as well. 5 years of bellcow (all 3 downs) results is still worth something to the right team. I understand the 2nd contract stuff but how many 1st round picks have made it to 2nd contracts with us? I also think RB contracts are declining and 5 years from now, the franchise tag amount should be much much less in comparison to today.
 

TheCardFan

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Plus I think Conner and Edmonds work great together, and provide a one-two punch that I don't ever recall seeing from our RBs before.

Let me preface by saying I am only advocating for Conner on a reasonable deal.

Serious question - would your rather have Conner and Edmonds (6m each - 12m total) or Conner at 6m and a draft pick like Cam Akers (1.5m/year) or Javonte Williams (2m/year) that actually have bigger upside?

I like James Cook in round 3ish.

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BritCard

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Let me preface by saying I am only advocating for Conner on a reasonable deal.

Serious question - would your rather have Conner and Edmonds (6m each - 12m total) or Conner at 6m and a draft pick like Cam Akers (1.5m/year) or Javonte Williams (2m/year) that actually have bigger upside?

I like James Cook in late round 3ish.

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No way I'm paying 12m for them both. I'd keep Edmonds and draft.

(Before I knew that was Dalvins brother I watched that 1st video and thought "Dalvin Cook")
 

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DJ and Bucky round 1 mock

I like our pick (mainly because he was my recent pick)

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Harry

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I know everyone’s scared of Keim’s drafting but keep in mind it’s huge for cap flexibility if you can fill a slot in the draft.
 

TheCardFan

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Ronin posted an article about potential Vikings cuts due to salary cap problems.

One name that jumped out is Danielle Hunter.

Hunter is due a roster bonus of 18m on 3/20. He missed 2020 with neck injury and then played in 7 games this year (3 sacks against us) before tearing his pec. With the 18m, he is due ~24m over the next 2 years (~12m/year). Definitely an injury risk but he just turned 27 and has been pretty productive before then.

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Harry

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Ronin posted an article about potential Vikings cuts due to salary cap problems.

One name that jumped out is Danielle Hunter.

Hunter is due a roster bonus of 18m on 3/20. He missed 2020 with neck injury and then played in 7 games this year (3 sacks against us) before tearing his pec. With the 18m, he is due ~24m over the next 2 years (~12m/year). Definitely an injury risk but he just turned 27 and has been pretty productive before then.

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Good player but some team will likely roll the dice and pay big, which not a Cardinal tradition. In fairness the Cards have enough injury cases to scare them off another. With a tight cap I can’t see them going here.
 

Snakester

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Free agency is where we improve the team to get to the next level. That and can we please find someone to teach Kyler Murray how to be a good quarterback. Pay the money and bring in Peyton Manning or Kurt Warner. If not, Murray is only going to get worse.
 

GatorAZ

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Some dumb team will Kenyan Drake him. Can we just go the Niners route of getting cheap dudes that always produce?
 

Chopper0080

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We paid Larry far more than this from 2012 onwards for less value.

$12m is 5.7% of the cap.

We paid Larry over over $14m per year in 2011 when he was 28 on a 7 year deal. From 28 to retiring at 37 this is what we paid him in cap %

201116.00%
201212.00%
20138.10%
20146.30%
20157.30%
201610.00%
20179.20%
20189.50%
20195.80%
20206.00%

Outside 2011 he only broke 1000 yards 3 times in the subsequent 9 seasons.

His best value was in 2017 when he had 1156 yards for 9.2% of the cap, or 1.25 yards per 0.1% of cap space.

If Kirk had 1000 yards at $12m (5.7%) it would be 1.75 yards per 0.1% of cap.

Kirk would offer far better value than any year of Fitz's last 9 years.

£12m is cheap in today's market for a WR2 capable of 1000 yards. I believe every team in the league would pay that.
Can Kirk gets stats? Yes. can Kirk gets stats as a #2? No. Why pay a guy #2 money when he is only a #2 when he acts as the #3?

And doing something because we did it before is not the best justification.
 

Chopper0080

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Holding his “injury problems” against him isn’t fair. I think it’s unreasonable for a RB, especially for ones that been in the league for 3+ years, to play 17 straight games nowadays. Even the top RBs like Henry, Chubb, Kamara, CMC, Cook, Mixon, Hunt, etc have all missed games due to injury in that time span.

That being said, I’d rather keep Chase if there was a choice. He offers more than James.
I disagree in that I believe Conner's red zone value is greater than Chase's which is an area we have struggled in.
 

Krangodnzr

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I disagree in that I believe Conner's red zone value is greater than Chase's which is an area we have struggled in.
It's like the people who argue that Emmitt Smith was overrated and Barry Sanders was god.

Well....Emmitt scored a buttload more TDs.
 

kerouac9

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It's like the people who argue that Emmitt Smith was overrated and Barry Sanders was god.

Well....Emmitt scored a buttload more TDs.

I guess. I mean, basically Conner got all the TDs that Kyler would have vultured. There's a happy medium there, but it's not paying James Conner $6 million a year after he averaged 3.7 YPC and was 22nd in DYAR and Success Rate.

Edmonds was 17th in DYAR and 10th in Success Rate, BTW.
 

Chopper0080

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I guess. I mean, basically Conner got all the TDs that Kyler would have vultured. There's a happy medium there, but it's not paying James Conner $6 million a year after he averaged 3.7 YPC and was 22nd in DYAR and Success Rate.

Edmonds was 17th in DYAR and 10th in Success Rate, BTW.
Our free agency quandary is going to be how to retain above average players without paying them good player money. Almost all of our guys have a cost/role/position/age caveat.
 

SoonerLou

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Why does this crap keep happening? You do remember the stat out there that Kyler had the best throwing percentage of any QB in between the numbers in the past 15 years right? 15 YEARS.
There's a happy medium in these responses. Kyler is one of the best when he has a clean pocket and throws the football. Its the guys he doesnt see or hit that is the problem. Thats where fixing the interior hopefully helps him see more. And obviously improving his ability to slide in the pocket and find open guys.
 

cheesebeef

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Our free agency quandary is going to be how to retain above average players without paying them good player money. Almost all of our guys have a cost/role/position/age caveat.
This.
 

dreamcastrocks

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There's a happy medium in these responses. Kyler is one of the best when he has a clean pocket and throws the football. Its the guys he doesnt see or hit that is the problem. Thats where fixing the interior hopefully helps him see more. And obviously improving his ability to slide in the pocket and find open guys.

Of course there is a happy medium. The problem is that people aren't using facts to form opinions.
 

SoonerLou

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Kyler Murray was 42nd in the NFL in rushing DVOA by quarterbacks last season -- behind everyone with eight+ rushes aside from Dak Prescott and Matt Ryan. Yikes.
Im betting it was way worse than that before the ankle injury.

Its why I had a problem with him running on the play he got hurt. His rushing was trash for the most part during the season at the time.

Its why PFF (I know) had his passing grade in the 90s at the time, but his rushing grades really put in a dent in overall grade at the time.

Rushing got better (at least seemed to me), but the passing got worse when he came back. Odd.
 

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