Wizards @ Suns Tuesday game thread 12-20-2022

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I would agree with some of this if not for the high expectations on this window and run. The team is 6 games away from being a .500 team. Yes, we have injuries. Yes, we have new pieces. However, so does everyone else. We have had some head to head games with teams in the same boat and they beat us. We have seen that playing by committee only works for a short period of time. We have also seen that some of the guys we acquired are not good enough to round out this bench come playoff time.

Not only should we be worried now....people were rightfully worried after our offseason moves. Sorry, this team needs to make more moves to have a shot in the playoffs.
We have lost to Houston twice, Washington and Orlando. That’s ugly.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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This is just stupid and honestly I’m tired of it.

I’ve criticized Ayton plenty and called him out plenty saying he was completely checked out at the start of the season. Stop ignoring that ****. It’s getting ******* old.

It’s all over the internet today Bridges yelling at Ayton, Monty yelling at Ayton. It’s become such low hanging fruit to point fingers on this team and it’s obvious.

Matter a fact won’t even bring up Ayton anymore.
You definitely did call him out early in the season.

But yeah they were yelling at Ayton for something aytin admitted he fouled up. That’s it. That’s the story. No one is saying Ayton was the primary reason we lost.
 

Covert Rain

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Interesting exercise. I’ll take a stab:

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie (still really a bit player)

Players that have slightly outperformed
Ayton (had he not been dragging a$$ to start season his improved consistency would likely have him in the top tier)
Torry Craig
Duane Washington (might be in tier above if he’d been healthier)
Wainwright (his 3 ball is much better than expected. But he’s just a bit player too)

Players that have met expectations
Booker (albeit expectations were high)
Cam Payne (playing where he was two seasons ago but a lot of missed games hurts him on this list)
Biz
Shamet (but only bc my expectation of him was he’d suck. Which, last night aside, he pretty much has)

Players that have underperformed
Bridges (failure to step up with absences of scorers has hurt the team and his defense doesn’t seem up to reputation)
CP3
Cam Johnson
Landale (we were counting on him hitting the 3 and being a floor spacer as a change up to Ayton and he’s failed miserably there. And other than a hot short spurt at beginning of season he’s been meh otherwise)
Dario

Having bridges, Paul and cam Johnson in the last tier really hurts.
Good analysis.
We have lost to Houston twice, Washington and Orlando. That’s ugly.
Yep. Sorry but hurt or not, there are games the Suns would have won last year IMO that we are losing this year. That is a byproduct of the team playing by committee and the team needing another consistent player.
 

TJ

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That’s definitely the play that caused Bridges to say something to DA, and Monty to boil over in the huddle…
DA’s basketball IQ remains sub-par. Monty expects better execution from him, especially in tight moments.
Hell of an over generalization. Ayton messed up on one play and all of a sudden, his basketball IQ is “sub-par.” A guy with a sub par IQ doesn’t anchor an entire defense. Meanwhile, Bridges legitimately shoots the team out of games and gets lazy in perimeter defense. Bridges is free to call out Ayton on that one play, but Ayton has the right to be on Mikal for like half a dozen plays
 

Cheesebeef

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Good analysis.

Yep. Sorry but hurt or not, there are games the Suns would have won last year IMO that we are losing this year. That is a byproduct of the team playing by committee and the team needing another consistent player.
The idea that health and some kind of mythical Jae Crowder trade is going to save this team is starting to remind me of people setting on Vucevic finally coming over from Europe to bolster the team back in the early 2000s.

As far as health is concerned, there’s no guarantee that happens. CP3 breaks down every year late and already is breaking down. Cam J is in the second straight year of an injury that sidelines for at least two months and never got it back last season, so to expect that this season is a shaky proposition. Book’s hammies and groin flare ups are flaring up early and Ayton is always gonna miss like 10-15 games with ankle roll ups.

We are a one horse team and NONE of those teams have won a title since Kawhi did it against the MASH unit in GS or Dirk did it with the Mavs over a decade ago. Closest any 1 horse teams have even gotten outside of those is Conference Finals for the Mavs last year and the Hawks year before that. And only reason that happened was because the Suns and Sixers had two of the more stunning collapses in NBA history. And once those 1 horse teams got the next round, they got their ASSES KICKED by GS and a Giannis-less Bucks team.

And… even if you want to lean on the Raptors/Mavs examples, as incredible as Devin is, he’s not the legend level of player Dirk or prime Kawhi was. And we’re not nearly as talented or deep as that Toronto team.

People can put their head in the sand all they want about us not needing major change but I don’t know how they do that after witnessing last year’s implosion without a second superstar and it looking like Jae Crowder’s middling expiring contract and middling picks are gonna be the only thing most here are willing to part with to plug the major holes last year’s sinking ship never patched up.
 
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82CardsGrad

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Hell of an over generalization. Ayton messed up on one play and all of a sudden, his basketball IQ is “sub-par.” A guy with a sub par IQ doesn’t anchor an entire defense. Meanwhile, Bridges legitimately shoots the team out of games and gets lazy in perimeter defense. Bridges is free to call out Ayton on that one play, but Ayton has the right to be on Mikal for like half a dozen plays
Aside from you and Finito, I don't believe there are many that would argue the point about Ayton's low basketball IQ... Nonetheless, I certainly wouldn't argue your point about Bridges... he sucked last night.
 

TJ

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Aside from you and Finito, I don't believe there are many that would argue the point about Ayton's low basketball IQ... Nonetheless, I certainly wouldn't argue your point about Bridges... he sucked last night.
Much like most of the critique of Ayton, it’s lazy analysis to opine that his hoops IQ is low. Maybe that’s something you can say his rookie season, but since then, he’s refined himself and become better at things such as calling out defenses, switches, etc. I don’t consider him a basketball savant or anything like that, but he’s certainly not a dummy
 

82CardsGrad

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Much like most of the critique of Ayton, it’s lazy analysis to opine that his hoops IQ is low. Maybe that’s something you can say his rookie season, but since then, he’s refined himself and become better at things such as calling out defenses, switches, etc. I don’t consider him a basketball savant or anything like that, but he’s certainly not a dummy
Let me clarify... I agree he has improved - in some ways dramatically, from his rookie season. And if I'm being honest, I'd admit that his play as of late gives me even more hope that lights are turning on and that there is more upside to his game. Lord knows his physical skills alone promise so much more out of him!
But all that said, and maybe because he picked up the game later in life as compared to most other stars/max players - what happens between his ears can still be incredibly frustrating to see play-out on the court. Maybe that's also a result of what is happening, or not happening, in his heart too? I dunno... But I feel safe in suggesting that from an IQ perspective, he's got a long way to go.
 

Covert Rain

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The idea that health and some kind of mythical Jae Crowder trade is going to save this team is starting to remind me of people setting on Vucevic finally coming over from Europe to bolster the team back in the early 2000s.

As far as health is concerned, there’s no guarantee that happens. CP3 breaks down every year late and already is breaking down. Cam J is in the second straight year of an injury that sidelines for at least two months and never got it back last season, so to expect that this season is a shaky proposition. Book’s hammies and groin flare ups are flaring up early and Ayton is always gonna miss like 10-15 games with ankle roll ups.

We are a one horse team and NONE of those teams have won a title since Kawhi did it against the MASH unit in GS or Dirk did it with the Mavs over a decade ago. Closest any 1 horse teams have even gotten outside of those is Conference Finals for the Mavs last year and the Hawks year before that. And only reason that happened was because the Suns and Sixers had two of the more stunning collapses in NBA history. And once those 1 horse teams got the next round, they got their ASSES KICKED by GS and a Giannis-less Bucks team.

And… even if you want to lean on the Raptors/Mavs examples, as incredible as Devin is, he’s not the legend level of player Dirk or prime Kawhi was. And we’re not nearly as talented or deep as that Toronto team.

People can put their head in the sand all they want about us not needing major change but I don’t know how they do that after witnessing last year’s implosion without a second superstar and it looking like Jae Crowder’s middling expiring contract and middling picks are gonna be the only thing most here are willing to part with to plug the major holes last year’s sinking ship never patched up.
Having a consistent scorer would go a long way on this team when everyone is healthy. This team as is, isn't getting another star in a trade for Crowder. They can get a pretty good player if they package Jae and some picks which I am OK with. Is it enough? Not sure it would be but IMO would give them a legit shot. I don't see very many people being unrealistic about what we are going to get back just for Jae which is why I think most trade scenarios involve a 3 team deal. IMO, that's the only way we get a high impact player UNLESS there are multiple teams trying to shed salary at the trade deadline which we see every single year. That could open additional possibilities.

IMO, multiple things are going to have to fall into place for the Suns to have a legit shot this year.
 

Covert Rain

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One Ayton needs to learn how to block shots. Two Bridges cant go 2 for 14 and Shamet has to play like he did.
More than that. CP3 will have to be healthy. Cam Johnson healthy and playing like Cam of old. Booker healthy. They also need another consistent scorer. As I feared in the off-season and said it repeatedly the Suns can’t stand pat.
 

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