Wizards @ Suns Tuesday game thread 12-20-2022

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Mainstreet

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Of course… but, with no Book, Cam’s, Crowder and a banged up CP3, Monty expects DA to do his job in crucial moments. He failed to execute a called play, so Bridges called it out and then Monty’s frustration boiled over…which, IMO, means nothing about the team coming apart…

I agree. I'm sure Bridges messed up his share of plays as well.

The Suns need some additions to the roster. It's up to James Jones and the new owner to get it done.

They have been shorthanded at key positions for a while.
 

Finito

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That’s definitely the play that caused Bridges to say something to DA, and Monty to boil over in the huddle…
DA’s basketball IQ remains sub-par. Monty expects better execution from him, especially in tight moments.

If you think Ayton was the problem last night i question your basketball IQ.

Bridges offered nothing on offense and got owned on defense yet again, but the guy who had 30/13 was the problem huh.
 

82CardsGrad

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If you think Ayton was the problem last night i question your basketball IQ.

Bridges offered nothing on offense and got owned on defense yet again, but the guy who had 30/13 was the problem huh.
Where did I say “Ayton was the problem last night?”
I’m referring to why Bridges and he exchanged words and why Monty was frustrated… calm down dude.
 

Proximo

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If you think Ayton was the problem last night i question your basketball IQ.

Bridges offered nothing on offense and got owned on defense yet again, but the guy who had 30/13 was the problem huh.
Granted Bridges had a bad game and Ayton played much better, but Ayton did screw up pretty bad on a couple plays near the end that are just more important because they are at the end of the game where there is no margin for error.

The entire teams defense was not nearly good enough especially in the first half. I think the issue was the team just took the Wizards way too lightly and it came back to bite them.
 

Proximo

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Coaches are failing because they can't sufficiently correct the childish proclivities of today's spoiled players. It got the old-school Jeff Hornacek fired, and it's stymieing even the famously velvet-gloved Monty Williams. (I swear I'm going to barf if I see once more that photo of him hugging Devin Booker.)

If the Suns weren't injury-wracked, I would like coach to do what Tom Thibodeau is reportedly doing with his Knicks: punish players who aren't playing hard enough, by gluing their butts to the bench. (Except Ayton. His status allows him to hold his spot hostage and give as much or as little effort as he wants. :( ) I don't know whether these allegations are true that Bridges isn't playing his famous defense (Covert calls him possibly the best defender in Suns history!), but coach would know; and if it's true, Bridges should not be immune to benching. I would like to see the "tenacious" Okogie get even more minutes as soon as he can play again. He should possibly be first off the bench for one of the guards. I don't care that he has no point guard skills, it's more important to favor players who give the most effort.
I think the Suns problems are being exaggerated greatly by the fans and the media.

A more healthy team, and a crowder trade will do wonders for our performance. I do not believe at all the team needs to be broken up, or that the players are not responding to coaching. That just isn't true. In fact I don't know how if you look at individual players performances relative to expectations this season cannot leave someone feeling optimistic.

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie
Jock Landale

Players that have slightly outperformed
Landry Shamet
Cam Payne
Torry Craig
Duane Washington
Biz

Players that have met expectations
Booker
Bridges
Ayton
Wainright

Players that have underperformed
CP3
Cam Johnson?
Dario

That is not what a team that is underperforming overall looks like - Injuries, and bad games at the wrong time, have been our biggest issues. But I see nothing to be overly concerned with at this point.
 

DJ Tabooh

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Granted Bridges had a bad game and Ayton played much better, but Ayton did screw up pretty bad on a couple plays near the end that are just more important because they are at the end of the game where there is no margin for error.

The entire teams defense was not nearly good enough especially in the first half. I think the issue was the team just took the Wizards way too lightly and it came back to bite them.
This is true. And while Mikal may have taken a step back defensively, I thought he did a good job on Bradley Beal. Beal shot 40% from the field and most of his points came at the line. He took advantage of CP3 in the 4th on some switches. It’s not like he was dicing Mikal up but that’s just me.

Monty struggles with in game management when it comes to timeouts. No reason we should’ve let the lead squander without taking a timeout. Very strange. Nevertheless, Memphis is a benchmark game before we head out on our road trip. I expect Book to play and they won’t have Bane but it’s gonna be a dogfight.

I still believe in this group as long as Book is healthy because he’s a superstar. You don’t score 50 twice in a season being just a star player. But we’ve gotta buckle down and handle our business.
 

Covert Rain

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I think the Suns problems are being exaggerated greatly by the fans and the media.

A more healthy team, and a crowder trade will do wonders for our performance. I do not believe at all the team needs to be broken up, or that the players are not responding to coaching. That just isn't true. In fact I don't know how if you look at individual players performances relative to expectations this season cannot leave someone feeling optimistic.

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie
Jock Landale

Players that have slightly outperformed
Landry Shamet
Cam Payne
Torry Craig
Duane Washington
Biz

Players that have met expectations
Booker
Bridges
Ayton
Wainright

Players that have underperformed
CP3
Cam Johnson?
Dario

That is not what a team that is underperforming overall looks like - Injuries, and bad games at the wrong time, have been our biggest issues. But I see nothing to be overly concerned with at this point.
I would agree with some of this if not for the high expectations on this window and run. The team is 6 games away from being a .500 team. Yes, we have injuries. Yes, we have new pieces. However, so does everyone else. We have had some head to head games with teams in the same boat and they beat us. We have seen that playing by committee only works for a short period of time. We have also seen that some of the guys we acquired are not good enough to round out this bench come playoff time.

Not only should we be worried now....people were rightfully worried after our offseason moves. Sorry, this team needs to make more moves to have a shot in the playoffs.
 
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cheesebeef

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Including this game he has averaged 19.5 in the last 6 games. It was an ugly game and he will have them more often than I would like, but he is a very capable scorer.
19.5 ppg on 17.8 shots per game and 39% shooting is PUTRID efficiency. All that shows is he needs a ton of shots to not even score 20 ppg over a six game stretch.

He’s a very capable role player. Not a very capable scorer. And nowhere near capable of being a legit 20 ppg scorer. You pointing to a 6 game stretch of putrid efficiency as proof of that in the face of FOUR, now going on FIVE YEARS of evidence to the contrary continues to boggle the mind.
 

cheesebeef

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I think the Suns problems are being exaggerated greatly by the fans and the media.

A more healthy team, and a crowder trade will do wonders for our performance. I do not believe at all the team needs to be broken up, or that the players are not responding to coaching. That just isn't true. In fact I don't know how if you look at individual players performances relative to expectations this season cannot leave someone feeling optimistic.

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie
Jock Landale

Players that have slightly outperformed
Landry Shamet
Cam Payne
Torry Craig
Duane Washington
Biz

Players that have met expectations
Booker
Bridges
Ayton
Wainright

Players that have underperformed
CP3
Cam Johnson?
Dario

That is not what a team that is underperforming overall looks like - Injuries, and bad games at the wrong time, have been our biggest issues. But I see nothing to be overly concerned with at this point.
Landry Shamet has one amazing game and now he’s over performed? No. He’s been awful this season.

And Bridges, who we were told again this off-season totally added to his game, yet has come back pretty much the exact same offensive player and WORSE on D has performance to expectations? I call BS on that also.

And EVERY team is dealing with injuries.
 

DJ Tabooh

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I would agree with all of this if not for the high expectations on this window and run. The team is 6 games away from being a .500 team. Yes, we have injuries. Yes, we have new pieces. However, so does everyone else. We have had some head to head games with teams in the same boat and they beat us. We have seen that playing by committee only works for a short period of time. We have also seen that some of the guys we acquired are not good enough to round out this bench come playoff time.

Not only should we be worried now....people were rightfully worried after our offseason moves. Sorry, this team needs to make more moves to have a shot in the playoffs.
We certainly do but we’re number 3 in the West. No one’s really separated. The Warriors are banged up, Mavs are under .500. We don’t need to be peaking until April before the playoffs. Every game matters but there’s 50 games left lol.
 

Covert Rain

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We certainly do but we’re number 3 in the West. No one’s really separated. The Warriors are banged up, Mavs are under .500. We don’t need to be peaking until April before the playoffs. Every game matters but there’s 50 games left lol.
That's more of a saving grace than a confirmation this team is OK and has what it needs to get it done. Last year we proved regular season success doesn't always translate to playoff success either.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Oh is that the same Bridges who was getting absolutely lit the **** up by Bradley Beal?

I’m sure maybe if Ayton had set that screen Bridges would have scored 12 points instead of 10.

No accountability it’s Ayton’s fault that’s our culture.
Well let’s not absolve Ayton of screwing up. He owned it which is a good sign. In discussing this particular flare up it was on Ayton.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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If you think Ayton was the problem last night i question your basketball IQ.

Bridges offered nothing on offense and got owned on defense yet again, but the guy who had 30/13 was the problem huh.
We’ve been talking about a specific clip. Stay attached to the conversation. Everyone likely agrees bridges was a much bigger culprit in the loss than Ayton.
 

cheesebeef

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We’ve been talking about a specific clip. Stay attached to the conversation. Everyone likely agrees bridges was a much bigger culprit in the loss than Ayton.
His blinders to Ayton are what others are to Bridges. But a little worse. At least the fans that overinflate Bridges’ ability can admit some flaws every once in a while. Ayton can pretty much do no wrong. Hell, even when he was regularly stink-bombing the beginning of the season, the franchise was to blame for letheragic play instead of Ayton himself.

It’s bizarre.
 

Finito

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His blinders to Ayton are what others are to Bridges. But a little worse. At least the fans that overinflate Bridges’ ability can admit some flaws every once in a while. Ayton can pretty much do no wrong. Hell, even when he was regularly stink-bombing the beginning of the season, the franchise was to blame for letheragic play instead of Ayton himself.

It’s bizarre.

This is just stupid and honestly I’m tired of it.

I’ve criticized Ayton plenty and called him out plenty saying he was completely checked out at the start of the season. Stop ignoring that ****. It’s getting ******* old.

It’s all over the internet today Bridges yelling at Ayton, Monty yelling at Ayton. It’s become such low hanging fruit to point fingers on this team and it’s obvious.

Matter a fact won’t even bring up Ayton anymore.
 

Covert Rain

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If you think Ayton was the problem last night i question your basketball IQ.

Bridges offered nothing on offense and got owned on defense yet again, but the guy who had 30/13 was the problem huh.
Finito I get what you are saying. Look, I have seen people here go way overboard on Ayton and Bridges. It's what they do. Having said that? Bridges has struggled for some reason this season after a good start but he will get back on track IMO. Ayton can put up huge numbers on his raw talent alone. One thing that cannot be denied? Ayton has consistently shown he has some problems when it comes to judgement, asserting himself and situation awareness. Ayton's inconsistency whether it's game to game, quarter to quarter or play to play has been a staple but I am not going to bag on him for last night after putting up 30/13.

A game is a summation of play throughout. Not a single boneheaded play. That play might blow a chance to win but it's not the reason for a loss. If everybody does their job for 48 minutes games don't come down to a play or two.
 

Proximo

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I would agree with some of this if not for the high expectations on this window and run. The team is 6 games away from being a .500 team. Yes, we have injuries. Yes, we have new pieces. However, so does everyone else. We have had some head to head games with teams in the same boat and they beat us. We have seen that playing by committee only works for a short period of time. We have also seen that some of the guys we acquired are not good enough to round out this bench come playoff time.

Not only should we be worried now....people were rightfully worried after our offseason moves. Sorry, this team needs to make more moves to have a shot in the playoffs.
Dallas made it to the conference finals last year with an inferior team - and technically they had a shot, all it would have taken is a Steph injury.

I understand what you are getting at, but I don't feel the team has been at full strength even one game this season. Yes we need one more rotation piece, I still fully expect to get that by the deadline.

I'm not quite sure what people think can be done that is drastic and will get us as title favorites. Any acquisition of that size if even possible, would more than likely take more than a couple months to iron out and get the players working well together.

Our best chance by far in my estimation for this season is making a small to midsize transaction, and simply hoping that our star players perform at playoff time. I know it is possible, and nobody in the West is really scary enough for me to think this team can't beat them in a series.

We just need 2 of Mikal, Ayton and Cam Johnson to play well with an average Booker game in 4 out of 7 games and we can beat anybody. I know those players are too inconsistent for anyone's comfort right now, but right now is not the playoffs, we still have several months to go.
 

Proximo

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Landry Shamet has one amazing game and now he’s over performed? No. He’s been awful this season.

And Bridges, who we were told again this off-season totally added to his game, yet has come back pretty much the exact same offensive player and WORSE on D has performance to expectations? I call BS on that also.

And EVERY team is dealing with injuries.
I will give you Shamet could easily go in the met expectations category as well - but I am comparing his performance to last years - which is what I was expecting and he has outperformed that. Is it where we want him to be performing, No it isn't.

Bridges is absolutely better in his offensive capabilities. His ability to get quick 3's off is noticeably improved. Also the fact he has had 5 games over 25 points, when he only had 6 in his entire career previously shows that he is at least more explosive offensively than the past. I will agree his defense is a bit worse this year - which is why overall I only have him as meeting expectations.
 

DJ Tabooh

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That's more of a saving grace than a confirmation this team is OK and has what it needs to get it done. Last year we proved regular season success doesn't always translate to playoff success either.
Oh 100% agree. Am I concerned about the Suns…yes. We absolutely have to make a move to freshen up the roster. We all know that. But despite the dysfunction, we’re still in the thick of it and that’s with a 5 game skid.

Jones needs to do something to help out this team. Windows don’t stay open forever.
 

swagron

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I think the Suns problems are being exaggerated greatly by the fans and the media.

A more healthy team, and a crowder trade will do wonders for our performance. I do not believe at all the team needs to be broken up, or that the players are not responding to coaching. That just isn't true. In fact I don't know how if you look at individual players performances relative to expectations this season cannot leave someone feeling optimistic.

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie
Jock Landale

Players that have slightly outperformed
Landry Shamet
Cam Payne
Torry Craig
Duane Washington
Biz

Players that have met expectations
Booker
Bridges
Ayton
Wainright

Players that have underperformed
CP3
Cam Johnson?
Dario

That is not what a team that is underperforming overall looks like - Injuries, and bad games at the wrong time, have been our biggest issues. But I see nothing to be overly concerned with at this point.
Shamet?….
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Oh is that the same Bridges who was getting absolutely lit the **** up by Bradley Beal?

I’m sure maybe if Ayton had set that screen Bridges would have scored 12 points instead of 10.

No accountability it’s Ayton’s fault that’s our culture.
He went 8-20 (40%) and that is well under his season average. He unfortunately was diving into our guys and getting a ton of calls to get to the free throw line.

I would also point out that most of their 12 game losing streak was with Beal sidelined and with him playing they are certainly not that bad.
 

Covert Rain

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Dallas made it to the conference finals last year with an inferior team - and technically they had a shot, all it would have taken is a Steph injury.

I understand what you are getting at, but I don't feel the team has been at full strength even one game this season. Yes we need one more rotation piece, I still fully expect to get that by the deadline.

I'm not quite sure what people think can be done that is drastic and will get us as title favorites. Any acquisition of that size if even possible, would more than likely take more than a couple months to iron out and get the players working well together.

Our best chance by far in my estimation for this season is making a small to midsize transaction, and simply hoping that our star players perform at playoff time. I know it is possible, and nobody in the West is really scary enough for me to think this team can't beat them in a series.

We just need 2 of Mikal, Ayton and Cam Johnson to play well with an average Booker game in 4 out of 7 games and we can beat anybody. I know those players are too inconsistent for anyone's comfort right now, but right now is not the playoffs, we still have several months to go.
Small transaction isn’t going to get it done. The Suns need a consistent player who gives you a solid contribution night in and night out. You won’t get that from a small transaction. We already have too many inconsistent guys on this roster.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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19.5 ppg on 17.8 shots per game and 39% shooting is PUTRID efficiency. All that shows is he needs a ton of shots to not even score 20 ppg over a six game stretch.

He’s a very capable role player. Not a very capable scorer. And nowhere near capable of being a legit 20 ppg scorer. You pointing to a 6 game stretch of putrid efficiency as proof of that in the face of FOUR, now going on FIVE YEARS of evidence to the contrary continues to boggle the mind.
His percentages over that stretch are bad, but both his FG% and 3P% are heavily dragged down by that one putrid performance where he went 4-24 (2-10). He also had a 30 game stretch last year averaging 18.2 PPG on 56% shooting. He can score the ball, but just shouldn't be option 1 or 2. This is perfectly fine with Ayton playing the way he is lately and a with a healthy Booker out there as they can be that 1/2 scoring punch and allow Bridges to play off of them more.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think the Suns problems are being exaggerated greatly by the fans and the media.

A more healthy team, and a crowder trade will do wonders for our performance. I do not believe at all the team needs to be broken up, or that the players are not responding to coaching. That just isn't true. In fact I don't know how if you look at individual players performances relative to expectations this season cannot leave someone feeling optimistic.

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie
Jock Landale

Players that have slightly outperformed
Landry Shamet
Cam Payne
Torry Craig
Duane Washington
Biz

Players that have met expectations
Booker
Bridges
Ayton
Wainright

Players that have underperformed
CP3
Cam Johnson?
Dario

That is not what a team that is underperforming overall looks like - Injuries, and bad games at the wrong time, have been our biggest issues. But I see nothing to be overly concerned with at this point.
Interesting exercise. I’ll take a stab:

For instance players that have far exceeded expectations:
Damien Lee
Josh Okogie (still really a bit player)

Players that have slightly outperformed
Ayton (had he not been dragging a$$ to start season his improved consistency would likely have him in the top tier)
Torry Craig
Duane Washington (might be in tier above if he’d been healthier)
Wainwright (his 3 ball is much better than expected. But he’s just a bit player too)

Players that have met expectations
Booker (albeit expectations were high)
Cam Payne (playing where he was two seasons ago but a lot of missed games hurts him on this list)
Biz
Shamet (but only bc my expectation of him was he’d suck. Which, last night aside, he pretty much has)

Players that have underperformed
Bridges (failure to step up with absences of scorers has hurt the team and his defense doesn’t seem up to reputation)
CP3
Cam Johnson
Landale (we were counting on him hitting the 3 and being a floor spacer as a change up to Ayton and he’s failed miserably there. And other than a hot short spurt at beginning of season he’s been meh otherwise)
Dario

Having bridges, Paul and cam Johnson in the last tier really hurts.
 

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