Suns @ Mavericks Thursday game thread 2-22-2024: Post All-Star Break

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
We really miss CP3.

It was time to move on, the injuries and his contract made the split necessary, but this team seems rudderless, not just night to night but quarter to quarter. It's very rare that they lock in and sustain a high level of play for a full game. He is a competitive lunatic and while I think Booker is certainly a competitive dude, he isn't the type to get in his teammates faces and he is prone to some bad decisions with the ball. Paul would just grind teams to dust late in games.
I think the team drastically underestimated the need for a floor general and someone who can run things. No offense to Book but he is taking on too much IMO. We don't really miss CP3 per say (he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy) but we miss his running of things on offense. I put that on James Jones.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,325
Reaction score
52,954
I think the team drastically underestimated the need for a floor general and someone who can run things. No offense to Book but he is taking on too much IMO. We don't really miss CP3 per say (he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy) but we miss his running of things on offense. I put that on James Jones.

The Suns absolutely underestimated their need for a backup point guard. Likewise, a third center that can play.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,808
Reaction score
10,675
I think the team drastically underestimated the need for a floor general and someone who can run things. No offense to Book but he is taking on too much IMO. We don't really miss CP3 per say (he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy) but we miss his running of things on offense. I put that on James Jones.

I blame Ishbia/Thomas.

One of the first things Jones did as GM was get a point guard in Rubio, then upgraded from him to CP3 and we also had Payne as one of the best backups.

Paul's tread was certainly coming off the tires but I think the roster construction is the trademark of Isiah Thomas... flash over substance.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
I blame Ishbia/Thomas.

One of the first things Jones did as GM was get a point guard in Rubio, then upgraded from him to CP3 and we also had Payne as one of the best backups.

Paul's tread was certainly coming off the tires but I think the roster construction is the trademark of Isiah Thomas... flash over substance.
I do t blame Ishbia at all. He signs the checks but James Jones is calling the plays.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
I think James Jones has very little to do with this current roster. Ishbia has not been subtle... he is very very hands on.
I disagree. Ishbia said from the start he was going to listen to the guys here and support them. JJ constructed this roster.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
89,019
Reaction score
62,206
Booker just singlehandedly killed the comeback.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
I know this is a stretch but I think Booker’s headband is bad luck.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
What owner in sports doesn’t say that?
What does that matter? I am sure he has input but he is going to listen to his GM and coach or he is another Sarver. He isn’t IMO.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,325
Reaction score
52,954
What owner in sports doesn’t say that?

Even with Mat Ishbia making the big move like trading for Durant, he fortuitously found a third star in Bradley Beal.

It's the coaching and peripheral moves made by James Jones that have proved to be the Suns downfall thus far.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
Just a surprising take that you don’t think he’s in full blown new owner syndrome mode.
What is more surprising is you think he is Sarver because that’s who you are describing. Sarver always thought he knew more than basketball guys. Ishbia is the guy saying "yes" you do what you need to do. He isn't making calculated personnel decisions IMO. That's ridiculous. Jones is driving that bus. He wanted Durant and every move Ishbia approved since.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,553
Reaction score
16,870
Location
The Giant Toaster
Even with Mat Ishbia making the big move like trading for Durant, he fortuitously found a third star in Bradley Beal.

It's the coaching and peripheral moves made by James Jones that have proved to be the Suns downfall thus far.

Not saying JJ has zero input but he’s just another voice in the room. A lot of ppl are in Ishbia’s ears both inside and outside the organization. JJ is a good figure to have around given his reputation with the players.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,325
Reaction score
52,954
Not saying JJ has zero input but he’s just another voice in the room. A lot of ppl are in Ishbia’s ears both inside and outside the organization. JJ is a good figure to have around given his reputation with the players.

Looking at the entire equation as it stands now, if I could remove only one piece, it would be Frank Vogel.

Another coach would have the Suns playing much better and with an identity.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,808
Reaction score
10,675
What is more surprising is you think he is Sarver because that’s who you are describing. Sarver always thought he knew more than basketball guys. Ishbia is the guy saying "yes" you do what you need to do. He isn't making calculated personnel decisions IMO. That's ridiculous. Jones is driving that bus. He wanted Durant and every move Ishbia approved since.

Ishbia made it rather clear that the Durant trade was all him. We could have made that same deal for Durant dating back to the summer of 22 but Jones didn't want to pay that price.

Gator has it right, Jones is just another voice in the room. I think he's probably 3rd or 4th in the pecking order when it comes to this team right now.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
Ishbia made it rather clear that the Durant trade was all him. We could have made that same deal for Durant dating back to the summer of 22 but Jones didn't want to pay that price.

Gator has it right, Jones is just another voice in the room. I think he's probably 3rd or 4th in the pecking order when it comes to this team right now.
I don't think that is how it played out according to reports on the radio. Rich Kleiman contacted James Jones to express interest in joining Suns. James Jones wanted the deal and discussed it with Sarver who in turn deemed the price too high at the time (first attempt). It wasn't until the acquisition by Ishbia that he made the decision the price was worth it and gave Jones the go ahead to move forward. The interest in the Suns didn't start after the Ishbia transition it was before. That seemed to line up with the Winhorst's reporting. Either way something tells me we may find out if this season doesn't turn out well. I could see Vogel and Jones given their walking papers. Jones will shout to the rooftops he didn't have anything to do with it if he is fired.
 
Last edited:

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,289
Reaction score
11,311
Location
Tempe, AZ
I don't think that is how it played out according to reports on the radio. Rich Kleiman contacted James Jones to express interest in joining Suns. James Jones wanted the deal and discussed it with Sarver who in turn deemed the price too high at the time (first attempt). It wasn't until the acquisition by Ishbia that he made the decision the price was worth it and gave Jones the go ahead to move forward. The interest in the Suns didn't start after the Ishbia transition it was before. That seemed to line up with the Winhorst's reporting. Either way something tells me we may find out if this season doesn't turn out well. I could see Vogel and Jones given their walking papers. Jones will shout to the rooftops he didn't have anything to do with it if he is fired.

No, he won't. James Jones is a professional if nothing else. He's not going to go blaming Ishbia for anything.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,557
Reaction score
12,513
Location
Arizona
No, he won't. James Jones is a professional if nothing else. He's not going to go blaming Ishbia for anything.
You are probably right. Maybe not directly but it will come out. His reputation is the only thing that will lead to his next job.
 
Last edited:

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
3,887
Reaction score
3,420
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
I think the team drastically underestimated the need for a floor general and someone who can run things. No offense to Book but he is taking on too much IMO. We don't really miss CP3 per se (he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy) but we miss his running of things on offense. I put that on James Jones.
They underestimated their opponent nothing more…
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,325
Reaction score
52,954
Hard to imagine him coming back next season.

With the amount of money Mat ishbia has invested in the team, players and luxury tax, it's hard for me to understand how he will let his investment sink for the lack of a head coach this season.

The Suns should be playing better than this, no matter how one looks at it. This team may not win a championship, but they
should be playing better with the amount of talent they have on the roster.

If the Suns want to try a temporary patch, search for a veteran point guard and hope he has something left in the tank.

Vogel doesn't seem to have confidence in Saban Lee. Of course, he was reluctant to play Bol Bol as well.
 

Vacard

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Posts
4,191
Reaction score
3,453
Location
VA
Maybe Durant is just old. Not everyone can have longevity like Lebron
 
Top