Suns @ Rockets Friday game thread 2-23-2024

Sparky16

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We have the best 3 point shooter and don’t set up plays for him
we have Bol and don’t give him massive minutes or use him for pick and rolls.
we have superstars who can’t hit 3s
we have useless Eubanks and bricklayer Gordon who cannot play defense
we have a useless coach
Nailed it.... Allen is lights out and this moron and his clown comb over which is not fooling anyone draws up plays forcing shots to Book/KD. Hey arse hat, figure out a way for Allen to get 10-12 shots a game and watch thing open up for KD/Book. More Bol and less Gordon
 

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Our big stars, making mega-millions,,, had two difficult games in a row. Poor shooting and turnovers. They will be back.

Bol, our monster-sized obstacle defender, shot blocker, rebounder who probably is paid 'league minimum' has warmed the bench for way too long. Now, we find that he can score when given the opportunity! His butt was kept on the bench during the Dallas game, and I couldn't understand why? He needs more minutes but I don't see our coach using him more. Instead O'Neal and Young with all 'the acquisition hype' provided are getting minutes and I'm not seeing their advantages.

Suns are 8th in division standings now. Season winding down.
Ball don't lie!
Even if they make the playoffs?,,,, early exit. Dreams of a
NBA TITLE are on hold for another year, sorry to say.
 

Yuma

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There's a trend in all our loses. Teams know they can play physical against us and have it work. Two, every fourth quarter the traps come out. Teams watch film. Those are the knocks on us. Until this team figures out how to overcome those challenges, we will be susceptible to those tactics. The silver lining is IF they ever DO figure this out, no one can stop us. It's time for that players only meeting to occur!
 

Chaplin

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So, I know we’re all fans of the team and root for them, but does anyone here actually LIKE this Suns team this year?
I do, but only when the big 3 are playing and they are cooking. It is really fun to watch when everyone is on the same page. Unfortunately, that is a rare occurrence.

When the big 3 are playing and playing well, it hides the fact that Vogel just isn't any better than an average basketball coach.
 

Chaplin

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We have the best 3 point shooter and don’t set up plays for him
we have Bol and don’t give him massive minutes or use him for pick and rolls.
we have superstars who can’t hit 3s
we have useless Eubanks and bricklayer Gordon who cannot play defense
we have a useless coach
Point 1: Absolutely. Still don't know how we can not get shots for Grayson. Is it because he's sharing the ball-handling duties too much?
Point 2: Bol can't handle "massive" minutes. Come on. He's also not a good screener because of his body type.
Point 3: Well... yeah.
Point 4: Eubanks was our best player in the first quarter and then was a no-show after that. Part of that I attribute to Frank playing Thad too long. That does 2 things: a) it makes the group on the floor discombobulated because nobody knows how to play with Thad yet, and b) keeps Drew on the bench too long, which pretty much invalidates all the good he did in the 1st quarter. Gordon to me is a conundrum. I know he should be better, and yet on the broadcast, his stats and their discussions don't match the eye test. Biggest disappointment of the year for me.
Point 5: Seconded.
 
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Mainstreet

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There's a trend in all our loses. Teams know they can play physical against us and have it work. Two, every fourth quarter the traps come out. Teams watch film. Those are the knocks on us. Until this team figures out how to overcome those challenges, we will be susceptible to those tactics. The silver lining is IF they ever DO figure this out, no one can stop us. It's time for that players only meeting to occur!

IMO, the Suns woes all start when they go to the bench. Frank Vogel has never figured out a rotation that will consistently work.

A backup point guard would have helped stabilize the second unit, but it may be too late for that now as pickings are meager.
 

BirdGangThing

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I see KD as more of a coach than Vogel - trying to correct things and holding players accountable - Vogel... he shuffles players in and out - the other coaches respond to his changes and Vogel just let's the match continue - at least from my pov
 

GatorAZ

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I see KD as more of a coach than Vogel - trying to correct things and holding players accountable - Vogel... he shuffles players in and out - the other coaches respond to his changes and Vogel just let's the match continue - at least from my pov

KD is honest with the media after the games but it’s just talk. He goes thru the motions as much as the next guy.
 
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Mainstreet

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The most open player on the team has been Beal but I haven't heard him talking much since before the All-Star break.
 

Yuma

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IMO, the Suns woes all start when they go to the bench. Frank Vogel has never figured out a rotation that will consistently work.

A backup point guard would have helped stabilize the second unit, but it may be too late for that now as pickings are meager.
Well a lot of people would like to see Saben Lee come in with the second unit. I concur. What could it hurt to try it a couple games? Our bench got out scored and out played by their bench last night again.
 

Yuma

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Point 1: Absolutely. Still don't know how we can not get shots for Grayson. Is it because he's sharing the ball-handling duties too much?
Point 2: Bol can't handle "massive" minutes. Come on. He's also not a good screener because of his body type.
Point 3: Well... yeah.
Point 4: Eubanks was our best player in the first quarter and then was a no-show after that. Part of that I attribute to Frank playing Thad too long. That does 2 things: a) it makes the group on the floor discombobulated because nobody knows how to play with Thad yet, and b) keeps Drew on the bench too long, which pretty much invalidates all the good he did in the 1st quarter. Gordon to me is a conundrum. I know he should be better, and yet on the broadcast, his stats and their discussions don't match the eye test. Biggest disappointment of the year for me.
Point 5: Seconded.
Point 2: Last night I saw Bol try and make a screen when we were bringing the ball up. He did it perfectly, but he is so skinny it was easy for the defender to zip around him.
 

Yuma

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The need to give Bol minutes as the backup 5 - Eubanks just doesn't add much.
I liked how they had him essentially as a PF, no matter what center was in the game. Even with KD, they played KD more at the center spot, at least on defense.
 

Joe Mama

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Well a lot of people would like to see Saben Lee come in with the second unit. I concur. What could it hurt to try it a couple games? Our bench got out scored and out played by their bench last night again.
Not looking at any stats or anything but just watching the games this year I don't understand Lee appreciation. Every once in a while he looks OK but for the most part it's just blah. And I was one of the ones who wanted to see him more down the stretch last year because we were so pathetic on the bench
 
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Mainstreet

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Not looking at any stats or anything but just watching the games this year I don't understand Lee appreciation. Every once in a while he looks OK but for the most part it's just blah. And I was one of the ones who wanted to see him more down the stretch last year because we were so pathetic on the bench

If the Suns can find a better player than Saban Lee by all means, fill that 15th slot with him.

However, the discussion might be better centered on Eubanks and Okogie only producing 2 points against the Lakers.

The Suns bench has been really weak.

I'm glad that Vogel is finally giving Bol Bol minutes.
 

Joe Mama

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If the Suns can find a better player than Saban Lee by all means, fill that 15th slot with him.

However, the discussion might be better centered on Eubanks and Okogie only producing 2 points against the Lakers.

The Suns bench has been really weak.

I'm glad that Vogel is finally giving Bol Bol minutes.
But I didn't say the Phoenix Suns should cut him. I fun with him as the 15th player. I'm fine with him as the 14th player, the 13th player, etc. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the few minutes he's getting now when the game isn't blowout, and I am not ready to see more of him.

Now that we have Royce O'Neill I really feel like for the most part JO 's should be fairly limited. I know teams sag off him and dare him to shoot from outside. I wish he were encouraged to move more… like most people here I wish the entire team was moving more. I think JO is capable of going to the basket and either drawing fouls or creating opportunities for his teammates. He's not a terrible offensive player. He's a terrible outside shooter.

I'm not sure what to say about Eubanks. He looks good about every third or fourth game. There's just no consistency . I've been a Vogel apologist all year, but if even with the injuries his constantly changing lineups leave me scratching my head (Figuratively of course) frequently.
 
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Mainstreet

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But I didn't say the Phoenix Suns should cut him. I fun with him as the 15th player. I'm fine with him as the 14th player, the 13th player, etc. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the few minutes he's getting now when the game isn't blowout, and I am not ready to see more of him.

The Suns have 14 standard contract players now. They have one more opening before the playoffs begin.

Saban Lee is on a two-way contract so he doesn't count towards the 15 player roster unless his contract is converted.

I’m for any player that can improve the team. If not him, then who?

The Suns could really use another player and point guard is a need as we have seen with Beal out.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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But I didn't say the Phoenix Suns should cut him. I fun with him as the 15th player. I'm fine with him as the 14th player, the 13th player, etc. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the few minutes he's getting now when the game isn't blowout, and I am not ready to see more of him.

Now that we have Royce O'Neill I really feel like for the most part JO 's should be fairly limited. I know teams sag off him and dare him to shoot from outside. I wish he were encouraged to move more… like most people here I wish the entire team was moving more. I think JO is capable of going to the basket and either drawing fouls or creating opportunities for his teammates. He's not a terrible offensive player. He's a terrible outside shooter.

I'm not sure what to say about Eubanks. He looks good about every third or fourth game. There's just no consistency . I've been a Vogel apologist all year, but if even with the injuries his constantly changing lineups leave me scratching my head (Figuratively of course) frequently.
Not sure I agree with you in JO. In I think the rockets game he had like five possessions in quick succession where he threw the ball away twice, airballed a 3, and missed two layups. He’s an equal opportunity offensive offensive player. He usually draws fouls when he scraps and gets the ball on busted plays when the defense isn’t set. When it is, he usually gets swatted or turns it over. He’s great when you need an infusion of energy. But that’s about it this season.
 

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Not sure I agree with you in JO. In I think the rockets game he had like five possessions in quick succession where he threw the ball away twice, airballed a 3, and missed two layups. He’s an equal opportunity offensive offensive player. He usually draws fouls when he scraps and gets the ball on busted plays when the defense isn’t set. When it is, he usually gets swatted or turns it over. He’s great when you need an infusion of energy. But that’s about it this season.
Yeah I thought I remembered last year at times that he would Drive to the basket with some confidence and was actually confident passer. The overall numbers for either season don't bear that out by any means. As you said he's really only been effective on miscellaneous plays and cuts to the basket . Even his transitions have been poop.
 

clyde2tw

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But I didn't say the Phoenix Suns should cut him. I fun with him as the 15th player. I'm fine with him as the 14th player, the 13th player, etc. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the few minutes he's getting now when the game isn't blowout, and I am not ready to see more of him.

Now that we have Royce O'Neill I really feel like for the most part JO 's should be fairly limited. I know teams sag off him and dare him to shoot from outside. I wish he were encouraged to move more… like most people here I wish the entire team was moving more. I think JO is capable of going to the basket and either drawing fouls or creating opportunities for his teammates. He's not a terrible offensive player. He's a terrible outside shooter.

I'm not sure what to say about Eubanks. He looks good about every third or fourth game. There's just no consistency . I've been a Vogel apologist all year, but if even with the injuries his constantly changing lineups leave me scratching my head (Figuratively of course) frequently.
“He's not a terrible offensive player. He's a terrible outside shooter.”
I fully agree. The worst way to use him is to park him in the corner waiting for passes to shoot. In the Lakers' game, for the first time in this season, the offense in the 4th was not KD/Booker ISOs only. They moved the ball with Allen and Nurk handling the ball for many possessions. In this kind of sets, for example, JO can be actively offball screening for KD/Book and participating in the ensuing offense in a variety of ways. And he is best in chaotic situations.
As to Saben Lee, he's been hesitant to finish his drives, following coach instructions I guess. Once he learns to keep his dribbles alive throughout driving in and out of the paint, his speed and strength can become more effective. Both Saben and JO got a lot fewer court time this season compared to last. So their output appears erratic at times seems perceivable.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah I thought I remembered last year at times that he would Drive to the basket with some confidence and was actually confident passer. The overall numbers for either season don't bear that out by any means. As you said he's really only been effective on miscellaneous plays and cuts to the basket . Even his transitions have been poop.
He’s just kind of an awkward hustle player.
 
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