NFCW Blog: Sando and Kolb's ceiling

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Oz from Fort Lauderdale wants to reassess the "ceiling" for Kevin Kolb as the Arizona Cardinals progress through the exhibition season. While he sees Kolb in the Matt Schaub/Matt Cassel mode, he also sees some similarities to Aaron Rodgers. "I'm just worried sometimes he is too much of a gunslinger."

Mike Sando: There isn't enough evidence to brand Kolb one way or another, but if he were in the Rodgers mold, the Eagles never would have traded him. General managers I spoke with throughout the offseason thought Kolb was a good prospect, but not good enough to return a higher first-round draft choice. That seems debatable. Would you rather have a good starting quarterback or most of the players drafted early in the first round? The good starting quarterback has more value if your team does not have one. Kolb did complete 79.3 percent of his passes for 326 yards, three touchdowns and a 133.6 passer rating against Atlanta last season. He projects confidence the way a Pro Bowl quarterback does. It is possible that attitude reflects more of a gunslinger's mentality than an efficient quarterback's mentality. We cannot know yet and we're not likely to have a good idea until several games into the regular season.

My Take:

Now I wasnt stating he IS Aaron Rodgers, I just see some similarities in their profiles when A Rodg ascended to the starting role in Green Bay. Both have live arms, are mobile, and are very accurate. The biggets difference (which I alluded to with the last line) is has way too high a TD to INT rate to make me comfortable. I do take solace that Wiz worked on that with Warner (as did Haley) and for as bad as Anderson was last year, it wasnt INTS as much as it was just plain inaccuaracy and bad decisions.

I think its much more likely he ends up a Top 12 QB in the Cassel and Schaub mold, but I think many have been too quick to say he is a "decent" prospect. He may not be the prototype QB in terms of physical skills and thus how he is viewed as a "prospect" maybe decent, but Rodgers was drafted late first round for a reason too. Its his makeup and intelligence that took Rodgers going from a "decent" prospect to Outer Wordly, not his physical skill.

I also think the "the eagles wouldnt have traded him if he was THAT good" is kind of lazy analysis. What if Peyton Manning had a star backup? Would he ever see the field either? I think Mike Vick is the type of physical prospect Kolb isnt (and no one else is either) making it much more reasonable that the Eagles would want to get something good for him before his value went down. And sticking with Vick makes sense. Players absolutely LOVE him, and he has a Michael Jordan type resonance with many players in the league. Look how many players took less money to play with the Eagles. When you look at it in totality, it doesnt make it that unreasonable that Kolb maybe very good, there was just no spot for him.

Anyway its an interesting discussion and one we will see unfold over the offseason.
 
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chickenhead

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Interesting take, and I do like how he pointed out the Rodgers fell for 'scouting' reasons as well. We view Rodgers in hindsight now--and even then we viewed him with sympathy, or favored him depending on our opinions of Favre. At the time he was questioned by many as a typical Tedford QB with inflated Pac-10 numbers.

The difference is the work that Rodgers put in between then and now, and the quality of the organization around him. It was such a great combination.

You can't compare Kolb and Rodgers yet, really. They have differences, and now Kolb is in a new system, whereas Rodgers was groomed for the Packers' offense. I think we have to give it at least a year. But I'm excited to watch it unfold!
 
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You can't compare Kolb and Rodgers yet, really. They have differences, and now Kolb is in a new system, whereas Rodgers was groomed for the Packers' offense. I think we have to give it at least a year. But I'm excited to watch it unfold!

Totally agree. I just think they have similar profiles prior to getting their "shot". But you are correct in the fact that Rodgers had the benefit of learning the system for three years and what most would consider a much better run organization.

I am also saying I wouldnt be shocked if Kolb turned in this year:

Aaron Rodgers 2008 First Year as starter:

63.6% Completion
28 TD's
4038 Yards
13 INTs

Again I think Kolb will throw more picks until he "adjusts" so maybe 18-20 INTS with the same type of passing yards and TDs, should things go well and he starts all 16 games.

Rodgers also went 6-10 that year, so I am hoping we have more team success as well.
 

RonF

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If you compare Kolb to D. Anderson, I say we have a much better QB who has a great career ahead of him playing for the Cardinals. I can live with that.
 

Catfish

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Right now, I would not be willing to compare Kolb to ANY QB in the NFL other than what we had last year. He has already shown that he is far beyond anything we had then, and I base that on his ability to handle the huddle, and to assymilate himself into our offense enough to win a game after only 5 days practice. That being said, Skelton, Bartel, and Hall are all ahead of where they were last year. I am much happier with our current QB situation than I was last year this time, or any time for that matter.
 

Duckjake

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Right now, I would not be willing to compare Kolb to ANY QB in the NFL other than what we had last year. He has already shown that he is far beyond anything we had then, and I base that on his ability to handle the huddle, and to assymilate himself into our offense enough to win a game after only 5 days practice. That being said, Skelton, Bartel, and Hall are all ahead of where they were last year. I am much happier with our current QB situation than I was last year this time, or any time for that matter.

Very true Catfish. That's all that matters to us. How is he running our offense? I hope that Kolb can steadily move the offense the next two weeks so we can really see what we have on defense.
 

Cheesebeef

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Very true Catfish. That's all that matters to us. How is he running our offense? I hope that Kolb can steadily move the offense the next two weeks so we can really see what we have on defense.

my biggest fear isn't will Kolb be good or bad... i think he'll be anywhere from decent to good. I my biggest fear is that this defense will be ATROCIOUS. It has literally ZERO play-makers. There's not ONE unit that has any strength to it whatsoever. The D-line has Dockett who's good (but I don't think he's as great as many do) and then Campbell who's okay and everything else is completely unproven/grossly out of shape. I believe the Linebacking corps is amongst the worst in the league for teams that run the 3-4 depending on guys who looked completely gassed, lost or outclassed last year while only bringing one "established" vet in from another team who hasn't played well in 3 years and the Defensive backfield... oh man... PP is a rookie who will play like one, Rhodes will be good, Wilson was already slowed last year by injury and will be again this year if he can even play and and i have zero confidence in the other corners who have nothing to establish themselves in the league. That's a whole lot of blegh and for those who wish to believe the guys already on our team can make big strides, I say this... we're having a season where those guys haven't gotten a full year of tutelage they need in the off-season to get better. that will be at least somewhat of a detriment to their development.

And beyond that... and even scarier... is this management team hasn't had the greatest drafts since they've been together as they only have one player left from the 2007 draft class (Levi Brown, who sucks), a good portion of the 2008 draft class is either gone or hasn't done much to distinguish themselves and at the LB position, we've had to cut 2nd and 3rd round picks while not seeing one player at that position step up to the plate since RG/Wiz took over the draft.

I just think this offense could be decent, but I have very little hope for a defense that is devoid of starters, depth and play-making abilities.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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Kolb will go as far as the OL takes him. If he can get the proper protection, he has the chance to be very good.
 

JeffGollin

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How Kolb stacks up against other NFL QB's is immaterial.

All that matters is whether he's good enough to help get us back to playoff contention.

i.e. How the team does with Kolb at the helm - & not comparisons to Rodgers - is the key to the whole deal.
 

slanidrac16

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If nothing else Kolb will make us a competent offense.

Last year if we had anything more than 3rd and 3 we were dead and if we fell behind by 10 pts. it was game over.
I think another big key is just how well Whiz adjusts to Kolbs style of play. KK showed e has a little motor to him and we should utilize that to put pressure on opposing defenses.
 

Duckjake

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If nothing else Kolb will make us a competent offense.

Last year if we had anything more than 3rd and 3 we were dead and if we fell behind by 10 pts. it was game over.
I think another big key is just how well Whiz adjusts to Kolbs style of play. KK showed e has a little motor to him and we should utilize that to put pressure on opposing defenses.

Never forget that thanks to a couple of breaks the Cards were 3-2 last season and two Defensive stops from being 5-3 needing only to go 3-5 to win the Division. They HAVE to start playing defense!

How soon we forget that even with the veteran laden team of 2008 and one of the best offenses in our history the Cards still gave up 426 points. Once Warner took over in the last half of 2007 the Cards offense averaged 31 points a game. The Cards allowed 28!

15 years in the NFL and the Ravens have given up over 400 points once. Their first season in Baltimore in 1996. I don't think the Steelers have allowed 400 points in a season since 1988. The Cards allow 400 points almost every year.

CKW and staff's biggest challenge and if Kurt Warner couldn't fix it Kevin Kolb sure can't. Come on Rod Graves and Coach Ken; the 1994 Cardinals allowed only 267 points. That's what we want to see. Get those guys on D going and if they can't do it get some guys that can!
 

Buckybird

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my biggest fear isn't will Kolb be good or bad... i think he'll be anywhere from decent to good. I my biggest fear is that this defense will be ATROCIOUS. It has literally ZERO play-makers. There's not ONE unit that has any strength to it whatsoever. The D-line has Dockett who's good (but I don't think he's as great as many do) and then Campbell who's okay and everything else is completely unproven/grossly out of shape. I believe the Linebacking corps is amongst the worst in the league for teams that run the 3-4 depending on guys who looked completely gassed, lost or outclassed last year while only bringing one "established" vet in from another team who hasn't played well in 3 years and the Defensive backfield... oh man... PP is a rookie who will play like one, Rhodes will be good, Wilson was already slowed last year by injury and will be again this year if he can even play and and i have zero confidence in the other corners who have nothing to establish themselves in the league. That's a whole lot of blegh and for those who wish to believe the guys already on our team can make big strides, I say this... we're having a season where those guys haven't gotten a full year of tutelage they need in the off-season to get better. that will be at least somewhat of a detriment to their development.

And beyond that... and even scarier... is this management team hasn't had the greatest drafts since they've been together as they only have one player left from the 2007 draft class (Levi Brown, who sucks), a good portion of the 2008 draft class is either gone or hasn't done much to distinguish themselves and at the LB position, we've had to cut 2nd and 3rd round picks while not seeing one player at that position step up to the plate since RG/Wiz took over the draft.

I just think this offense could be decent, but I have very little hope for a defense that is devoid of starters, depth and play-making abilities.

:thumbup: I agree

I'm still not buying our defensive problems are all DC related. If the talent isn't there we could have Bellicheat, Lebeau, Wade Wilson & Parcells running our D & we would still have issues. As you say we have some good players, but not 1 guy who's considered great. The 3-4 relies on edge rushers & the play of it's LB corp & as of 2day we still are below average in terms of on the field production!!!
 

slanidrac16

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Never forget that thanks to a couple of breaks the Cards were 3-2 last season and two Defensive stops from being 5-3 needing only to go 3-5 to win the Division. They HAVE to start playing defense!

How soon we forget that even with the veteran laden team of 2008 and one of the best offenses in our history the Cards still gave up 426 points. Once Warner took over in the last half of 2007 the Cards offense averaged 31 points a game. The Cards allowed 28!

15 years in the NFL and the Ravens have given up over 400 points once. Their first season in Baltimore in 1996. I don't think the Steelers have allowed 400 points in a season since 1988. The Cards allow 400 points almost every year.

CKW and staff's biggest challenge and if Kurt Warner couldn't fix it Kevin Kolb sure can't. Come on Rod Graves and Coach Ken; the 1994 Cardinals allowed only 267 points. That's what we want to see. Get those guys on D going and if they can't do it get some guys that can!

Duck, I know you love defense and you are exactly right. I have to laugh when I see quality players on defense simply walk away and our fans normal response is "He sucked anyway". We will never have a solid team or defense until we settle on a style, find players that fit that style and then KEEP them. Trading DRC and drafting Petterson is not the way to build a team.
Yes, the DRC trade was almost a no choice move because of our abysmal QB situation, which by the way, whos fault is that?
Tell me Rolle wouldn't be a viable option to replace Wilson. Tell me Dansby wouldn't be the best LB on this team today.

I know the stories of resigning these players is a bit more complex than I am making it sound. But again, if we don't let them get to the final year of their contracts and we treat them as a desired commodity, perhaps they stay.
 

Buckybird

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Duck, I know you love defense and you are exactly right. I have to laugh when I see quality players on defense simply walk away and our fans normal response is "He sucked anyway". We will never have a solid team or defense until we settle on a style, find players that fit that style and then KEEP them. Trading DRC and drafting Petterson is not the way to build a team.
Yes, the DRC trade was almost a no choice move because of our abysmal QB situation, which by the way, whos fault is that?
Tell me Rolle wouldn't be a viable option to replace Wilson. Tell me Dansby wouldn't be the best LB on this team today.

I know the stories of resigning these players is a bit more complex than I am making it sound. But again, if we don't let them get to the final year of their contracts and we treat them as a desired commodity, perhaps they stay.

:thumbup:
 

BigRedArk

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Never forget that thanks to a couple of breaks the Cards were 3-2 last season and two Defensive stops from being 5-3 needing only to go 3-5 to win the Division. They HAVE to start playing defense!

How soon we forget that even with the veteran laden team of 2008 and one of the best offenses in our history the Cards still gave up 426 points. Once Warner took over in the last half of 2007 the Cards offense averaged 31 points a game. The Cards allowed 28!

15 years in the NFL and the Ravens have given up over 400 points once. Their first season in Baltimore in 1996. I don't think the Steelers have allowed 400 points in a season since 1988. The Cards allow 400 points almost every year.

CKW and staff's biggest challenge and if Kurt Warner couldn't fix it Kevin Kolb sure can't. Come on Rod Graves and Coach Ken; the 1994 Cardinals allowed only 267 points. That's what we want to see. Get those guys on D going and if they can't do it get some guys that can!

Well said Duck. I'm hoping at least that our D is better this year with an improved Offense. One that hopefully turns the ball over significantly less and can execute the long sustained drive when needed.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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Yes, the DRC trade was almost a no choice move because of our abysmal QB situation, which by the way, whos fault is that?
It all falls on the FO once again. They have a philosophy to get rid of pro bowl talent and replace them with avg/below avg talent. I feel like the Bidwills and Mike Brown from the Bengals have too much in common, and thats not a good thing...
 

john h

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Right now, I would not be willing to compare Kolb to ANY QB in the NFL other than what we had last year. He has already shown that he is far beyond anything we had then, and I base that on his ability to handle the huddle, and to assymilate himself into our offense enough to win a game after only 5 days practice. That being said, Skelton, Bartel, and Hall are all ahead of where they were last year. I am much happier with our current QB situation than I was last year this time, or any time for that matter.

Like most are saying I think it is way to early to project what Kolb is going to be. 3-4 games into the season we should have an idea. Skelton looked better than I thought and Hall was lights out but I doubt he will be on the team. Size does count. At this point Skelton probably has as much upside as Kolb but I doubt has the experience to beat out Kolb. Who will be the starter after game 8 will be interesting. I see this team as an 8/8 or 6/10 but very much hope I am wrong.
 
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