Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by Chris_Sanders, Jun 12, 2019.
15 Josh Allen
If Murray was in that group it would go today:
I would take Mayfield over Murray because I like/d Mayfield a lot. I think Mayfield is going to be a top 5 QB for the next 10+ years. I think Murray has a higher ceiling, but doesn't have as much tape. Darnold was my #2 last year, and he showed enough to remain there. Allen jumps Rosen because he was better than Rosen with an arguably worse supporting cast. Jackson moved to the back of the line because he isn't very good at the most important skills for a QB, reading defenses and accuracy.
David Johnson I guess has been messing with Chandler Jones because Murray moves away from and around pass rushers so easily in practice. Like chasing a chicken.
It's funny that people on here will knock Murray for his supporting cast, but on other threads talk up Tua and Lawrence, who easily have quite a bit better supporting casts.
Both guys have a bit of a raised eyebrow because of the talent, but I see them make contested throws when I watch them. Again, I'm not saying Murray can't put it into tight windows, but that he didn't have to very often, and that's what concerns me about the tape.
Yeah. There are some things that we can be confident Murray will do. One is evade NFL D-lineman.
Two is beat NFL LBs to the corner. It won't be as easy as it was in college, but Murray vs. KJ Wright or Wagner from SEA for example, is still a mismatch.
jesus, you guys are still debating this crap?
Tua and Lawrence are underclassmen who played against stiffer competition throughout the entire season. Murray was a QB who needed to transfer schools and couldnt move up the depth chart until his 4th year of college to start and play against Swiss cheese defenses. That’s with being on teams laden with 4-and-5-star talent at both A&M and OU.
I mean Mayfield also had to leave a school to get his chance to start full time and he was the guy in front of Murray at OU. Hard to fault Murray for not being able to surpass what was already a proven great college QB in Mayfield that was also in his senior year. Even if he outperformed Mayfield in practice he wasn't going to take that starting job from him.
False narrative. He was the starter when he transferred. He had to sit out a year and during that time, Baker Mayfield exploded.
Stiffer competition? Yeah with even better talent.
Tua maybe played against a better overall schedule. Probably. But his offense was backed by an excellent defense as well. Murray had the pressure to score on every possession most games, and came through. Tua was playing from way ahead most games, thanks in part to his ability, but also thanks in part to his defense. So pretty different situations.
And Lawrence? He plays in the ACC TJ.
The same ACC that fired an awful, 6-5 Pittsburgh team into the conference championship game vs. Clemson. Pittsburgh probably wasn't a top 50 team, but was the best the seven team ACC Coastal division had to offer.
If you say the ACC is better than any other Power Five conference, either you're trolling, or you're dangerously uneducated about college football.
At least OU had to beat a stout Texas Longhorn squad for the Big XII final. The same Texas team that went on to beat the SEC's other darling, Georgia.
Stick to the narrative that Murray's game won't translate into the NFL TJ. You sound less silly.
TJ doesn't sound "silly" at all. Tua won a National Championship in one of the highest pressure moments a kid has ever had to face in college ball, he played against amazing competition, and he'll have at least another year to prove it all over again. And he beat your boy, straight up. Same thing with Lawrence - sure, the ACC isn't that good, but he showed the ability to take that team all the way to the championship and punch the most talented team in the NCAA right in the mouth, as a freshman. He'll have two years to back that up even more, but Lawrence is currently the closest thing we have to an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, where unless something wild happens, he'll be what every club is drooling over as the next sure thing.
Maybe Kyler is great, but at the end of it all, we're going to have a lot more tape and evidence from Tua and Lawrence before they're drafted than we do for Kyler.
You can easily argue Kyler would’ve done the same thing with Clemson, but unfortunately, I hate hypotheticals for the most part so I would sound like a hypocrite.
Solar7, I was not debating that either Tua or Lawrence are excellent QBs. Tua is, and Lawrence probably will be.
But TJ's point was that "Tua and Lawrence played against better competition than Murray". Again, my rebuttal is:
1. Tua probably did play against marginally better competition, but was also backed by a much superior defense, which makes a difference in terms of in-game situations that each QB faced.
2. Lawrence played in the awful ACC, and therefore it's not even reasonable to say that he played against better competition (and he was also backed by a great, great defense). To say Lawrence faced better competition is silly.
Also Solar7, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tua get pulled from the National Championship Game against Clemson (in favor of Jalen Hurts)?
Not exactly a highlight reel moment for your boy.
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