I’m Beginning to Feel Sorry for Joseph

[Harry]

Harry, What would your priorities be for this D in the off-season? Which positions would you start with in FA?

There’s lots of good ideas and observations on this thread. For me, you start with the line. You need someone to collapse the pocket & anchor the middle. ARZ101 gives us a clue about the rest. This team is slow; truly slow. This is likely the slowest defense in the NFL. Part of this comes from a failure to infuse young, competent draft choices. Some of the secondary might be young enough to develop, but there is little hope elsewhere. That said the D desperately needs a player capable of covering the TE. A quick, skilled MLB could help. Also they need a second impact pass rusher. A great pass rush would take much of the pressure off the secondary.

As I said before it was too late; it was time to trade Peterson. His value would have plugged 2 holes. I believe he will continue to decline but some contender would have overpaid for him in this wide open season. It was trading the past for a future. As it stands now Peterson can still be a useful player but as I warned players who believe their talent is at its peak don’t take PEDs. The defense can be better next year but there is such a talent deficiency with so much dead money I think it’s a 2 year fix at best.

 

[WildBB]

Losing knucklehead Philion at DE, Alford at CB and P2 to ped's was a really ominous sign for this D to start this season.

Nkemdiche a late 1st overall bust because of health and questionable dedication to excel at the game was a mistake Calais replacement pick. Something the franchise has been multiply exposed at doing with not even very mixed results. Same with Reddick, who was largely BA's pet need pick. Keim signed off and let two legit passers slip by, to two other needy franchises who jumped right by. Water under the bridge now.

But this team hasn't drafted reasonably well until hopefully last year, picking at the very top of each round. Murphy is a legit future #1 in this league. I like the potential of Zach Allen to be a solid rotational piece at the very least. The Thompson twins hopefully produce at least one regular. Another productive offseason is now vital along with getting rid of the dead wood. We pretty much know the direction it's headed now unless someone proves us wrong. Coming off bye, and November overall will be even more telling.

 

[MadCardDisease]

As I said before it was too late; it was time to trade Peterson. His value would have plugged 2 holes. I believe he will continue to decline but some contender would have overpaid for him in this wide open season. It was trading the past for a future. As it stands now Peterson can still be a useful player but as I warned players who believe their talent is at its peak don’t take PEDs. The defense can be better next year but there is such a talent deficiency with so much dead money I think it’s a 2 year fix at best.

So far the Cardinals only have about $2M in dead money and about $79M in cap space next year. Where do you think the extra dead money is coming from that will prevent them from signing talent? I personally don't think dead money is a problem next year. It will be more who is available in FA and how much competition that they have for those FAs.

 

[Chopper0080]

So far the Cardinals only have about $2M in dead money and about $79M in cap space next year. Where do you think the extra dead money is coming from that will prevent them from signing talent? I personally don't think dead money is a problem next year. It will be more who is available in FA and how much competition that they have for those FAs.

Franchise tags will dictate a lot of what we do in free agency.

Bengals - AJ Green - WR
Tennessee - Jack Conklin - OT
Denver - Justin Simmons - S
Kansas City - Chris Jones - DT/DE
Dallas - Amari Cooper - WR
Washington - Brandon Scherff - RG
Atlanta - Austin Hooper - TE
Carolina - Shaq Thompson - ILB
New Orleans - Vonn Bell - S

 

[football karma]

1. the team desperately needs an interior disruptor to collapse the pocket.

2. a LB who can run would be helpful.

3. Maybe they try Reddick at the position he was most successful at in college: pash rushing olb/de. He immediately goes from a below average coverage ILB to an average coverage 3/4 OLB.

4. Another year of experience for Byron Murphy and the Thompsons

 

[cardpa]

Peters used to be decent in the middle but age is catching up with him too and there is no one else to take up the slack. Suggs is a shell of his former self and as someone else said this defense is doing it's best impersonation of Rod Graves (the human snail) as far as speed is concerned.

 

[SeattleCard]

I'm just thankful Steve Keim purchased a PFF Elite subscription.. should help with drafts moving forward.

 

[dscher]

I'm just thankful Steve Keim purchased a PFF Elite subscription.. should help with drafts moving forward.

No doubt. Let's hope if he stays that he sticks with this past draft method. It's our only chance. Lol

 

[Harry]

So far the Cardinals only have about $2M in dead money and about $79M in cap space next year. Where do you think the extra dead money is coming from that will prevent them from signing talent? I personally don't think dead money is a problem next year. It will be more who is available in FA and how much competition that they have for those FAs.

More dead money to come. Reddick & Suggs are surely gone. I’d dump Pugh, but they may not. The $79 mil is very deceptive. They only have 33 guys under contract. That’s very low and means tons of holes must be filled.

 

[Chopper0080]

More dead money to come. Reddick & Suggs are surely gone. I’d dump Pugh, but they may not. The $79 mil is very deceptive. They only have 33 guys under contract. That’s very low and means tons of holes must be filled.

I think they could cut Reddick as a post June cut and spread the 4 mil over two years. I don't see them cutting Pugh. They would only save 4 mil while eating 6. You are correct that they don't have as much as they seem to have, but on the other hand, none of the players they are looking to re-sign will be super expensive outside of Humphries. My guess is that they will look to Gaillard and/or Cole to fill the C spot and let Shipley leave. I did think Cole handled himself well at LG. I am curious if they will leave Cole at LG and Pugh at RT for the rest of the season and see if that works for next year. Being comfortable with Pugh at RT would give us more options in FA and the Draft.

I don't know if Larry will come back.

 

[ReasonableMan]

I think they could cut Reddick as a post June cut and spread the 4 mil over two years. I don't see them cutting Pugh. They would only save 4 mil while eating 6. You are correct that they don't have as much as they seem to have, but on the other hand, none of the players they are looking to re-sign will be super expensive outside of Humphries. My guess is that they will look to Gaillard and/or Cole to fill the C spot and let Shipley leave. I did think Cole handled himself well at LG. I am curious if they will leave Cole at LG and Pugh at RT for the rest of the season and see if that works for next year. Being comfortable with Pugh at RT would give us more options in FA and the Draft.

I don't know if Larry will come back.

I love Larry. But let’s get real here. He’s past his prime, is slow, and just doesn’t get it done. He’ll be back. At this point in his career, nobody values him as much as we do. And we do that for the intangibles (face of franchise, fans, etc.)

 

[MadCardDisease]

More dead money to come. Reddick & Suggs are surely gone. I’d dump Pugh, but they may not. The $79 mil is very deceptive. They only have 33 guys under contract. That’s very low and means tons of holes must be filled.

With only 33 on the roster next year, there isn't much left to cut that would generate dead money. We might be looking at $6M in dead money next year if they cut Suggs and Reddick. That's not prohibitive kind of dead money. I don't see dead money be a problem going into the offseason.

Plus other than DJ Humphries they don't have any Big Name Free Agents that they need to re-sign next year.

Yes $79M will dry up fast but as you sign guys you are filling holes hopefully. A starting MLB, a starting OLB, and a starting DE plus some rotational/backup guys shouldn't eat but half of cap space left to help the defensive side of the ball. Plus you figure a few draft picks will be brought in to help the depth as well on the cheap.

Then you still have cap room to bring in a RT, WR and whatever else you need on offense.

 

[juza76]

I think they could cut Reddick as a post June cut and spread the 4 mil over two years. I don't see them cutting Pugh. They would only save 4 mil while eating 6. You are correct that they don't have as much as they seem to have, but on the other hand, none of the players they are looking to re-sign will be super expensive outside of Humphries. My guess is that they will look to Gaillard and/or Cole to fill the C spot and let Shipley leave. I did think Cole handled himself well at LG. I am curious if they will leave Cole at LG and Pugh at RT for the rest of the season and see if that works for next year. Being comfortable with Pugh at RT would give us more options in FA and the Draft.

I don't know if Larry will come back.

I'm sure after listening Kingsbury recent press conference they will stick with pugh at tackle
We need in any case a high pick tackle and a free agent guard
Both Humphries and pugh have durability concern and our middle of the line has just Sweezy as a brawler

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think they could cut Reddick as a post June cut and spread the 4 mil over two years. I don't see them cutting Pugh. They would only save 4 mil while eating 6. You are correct that they don't have as much as they seem to have, but on the other hand, none of the players they are looking to re-sign will be super expensive outside of Humphries. My guess is that they will look to Gaillard and/or Cole to fill the C spot and let Shipley leave. I did think Cole handled himself well at LG. I am curious if they will leave Cole at LG and Pugh at RT for the rest of the season and see if that works for next year. Being comfortable with Pugh at RT would give us more options in FA and the Draft.

I don't know if Larry will come back.

Hmmm... So 2020 will be Cole's (6'4', 306) third year on the team. Gailard (6'3" 305) was of course a rookie this year. I guess ideally, Cole would take over, having the benefit of three full training camps (two with K2's offense )+ pro coaching and physical development. It would certainly be the most economical option for the Cardinals. His 3rd round pick, rookie contract cap hit is about 800k in 2020 (he's signed through 2021)

Also, here's an early list of 2020 FA centers. Could we get one of the lower tier guys (like Jones or Pouncey) for a reasonable price? Would we want either of them?

1. 
   Center
   
   1. Cody Whitehair, Chicago Bears
   
   2. JC Tretter, Cleveland Browns
   
   3. Rodney Hudson, Oakland Raiders
   
   4. Mike Pouncey, Los Angeles Chargers
   
   5. Ben Jones, Tennessee Titans

 

[Chopper0080]

Hmmm... So 2020 will be Cole's (6'4', 306) third year on the team. Gailard (6'3" 305) was of course a rookie this year. I guess ideally, Cole would take over, having the benefit of three full training camps (two with K2's offense )+ pro coaching and physical development. It would certainly be the most economical option for the Cardinals. His 3rd round pick, rookie contract cap hit is about 800k in 2020 (he's signed through 2021)

Also, here's an early list of 2020 FA centers. Could we get one of the lower tier guys (like Jones our Pouncey) for a reasonable price? Would we want either of them?

1. 
   Center
   
   1. Cody Whitehair, Chicago Bears
   
   2. JC Tretter, Cleveland Browns
   
   3. Rodney Hudson, Oakland Raiders
   
   4. Mike Pouncey, Los Angeles Chargers
   
   5. Ben Jones, Tennessee Titans

I would love to know how the Cardinals (Kugler) view Mason Cole and Lamont Gaillard because I believe it would answer a lot of my questions regarding the offensive line moving forward. I think those will be answered by the end of the offseason, but I would love to know now. If I am reading the tea leafs, my guess is the 2021 Cardinals offensive line looks like...

LT - DJ Humphries
LG - Mason Cole (Kugler dropping 10-12 year pro comments is no joke)
C - Lamont Gaillard (Kugler ok w/ short C (see Shipley) & Gaillard has long arms, is tough)
RG - ?
RT - ?

 

[splitsecond]

It will be interesting to see if Zach Brown can provide enough improvement in the middle for Vance to get more aggressive on blitzes. He's absolutely hampered by our lack of talent at ILB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

1. the team desperately needs an interior disruptor to collapse the pocket.

2. a LB who can run would be helpful.

3. Maybe they try Reddick at the position he was most successful at in college: pash rushing olb/de. He immediately goes from a below average coverage ILB to an average coverage 3/4 OLB.

4. Another year of experience for Byron Murphy and the Thompsons

Peters disrupts from the NT position all of the time, but another DE who can do the same would really help the defense a lot. Even if it's only 3-4 times a game, that has a huge impact.

I think at this point in time, I'd think about trying Reddick at OLB again, but the problem is that was done his rookie year and he would get glued to bigger faster tackles. He isn't better than Marsh or Reed as an OLB, so now he ends up as the 5th best OLB on the roster. Reddick hasn't been good, but he is still probably the third best ILB on the team.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I would love to know how the Cardinals (Kugler) view Mason Cole and Lamont Gaillard because I believe it would answer a lot of my questions regarding the offensive line moving forward. I think those will be answered by the end of the offseason, but I would love to know now. If I am reading the tea leafs, my guess is the 2021 Cardinals offensive line looks like...

LT - DJ Humphries
LG - Mason Cole (Kugler dropping 10-12 year pro comments is no joke)
C - Lamont Gaillard (Kugler ok w/ short C (see Shipley) & Gaillard has long arms, is tough)
RG - ?
RT - ?

Sweezy has been a lot better than 90% of this board thought he was going to be, and based on what everyone says that Kugler values in an OL, I would expect him to start.

 

[football karma]

I'd think about trying Reddick at OLB again, but the problem is that was done his rookie year and he would get glued to bigger faster tackles.

they are stuck with Reddick next year -- per Overthecap: he will count $4.5mm-ish against the cap -- no matter what happens: keep, cut, trade -- either pre-June 1 or post. (I don't really understand it, but that's what it says FWIW)

so maybe 3 years of NFL experience, plus 15 lbs in the offseason, and maybe he can be a top 4 OLB on the roster.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Peters used to be decent in the middle but age is catching up with him too and there is no one else to take up the slack. Suggs is a shell of his former self and as someone else said this defense is doing it's best impersonation of Rod Graves (the human snail) as far as speed is concerned.

You must be watching a different team. Sorry to be snide, but Peters is easily the Cardinals best DL and maybe second best front seven player.

He consistently gets push up the middle.

 

[Garthshort]

I live in NY but don't follow closely, either the Jets or the Giants. And I can't even imagine what their message boards must be like, when you consider:
1. The Giants lost to us.
2. The Jets lost to the Dolphins.
3. And we gave the undefeated 49ers all they could handle, losing by three as a 10 point dog.

I don't know how we'll finish the season, but we started as #32, and last time I saw a ranking, we were in the mid-twenties. I call that progress.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I would love to know how the Cardinals (Kugler) view Mason Cole and Lamont Gaillard because I believe it would answer a lot of my questions regarding the offensive line moving forward. I think those will be answered by the end of the offseason, but I would love to know now. If I am reading the tea leafs, my guess is the 2021 Cardinals offensive line looks like...

LT - DJ Humphries
LG - Mason Cole (Kugler dropping 10-12 year pro comments is no joke)
C - Lamont Gaillard (Kugler ok w/ short C (see Shipley) & Gaillard has long arms, is tough)
RG - ?
RT - ?

Interesting. So we let go of LG Pugh after next year. And Sweezy's RG contract expires in 2020, and I think he'll be too old (like 32 at the start of the 2021 season) to sign to another deal, so we let him go too. I know this is the craziest thing ever written, but I wish the Cardinals would start planning to replace Sweezy this year.

Man, If we could get that kind of mileage out of Cole and Gailard, it would be quite a coup. I really hope you're right Chopper.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

You must be watching a different team. Sorry to be snide, but Peters is easily the Cardinals best DL and maybe second best front seven player.

He consistently gets push up the middle.

2.5 sacks and 21 tackles so far this year. That's pretty decent. At 31, he's starting to get up there in age though.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sweezy has been a lot better than 90% of this board thought he was going to be, and based on what everyone says that Kugler values in an OL, I would expect him to start.

I don't think we extend him or re-sign him in 2021.

I do think he probably is our starter next year depending on what FAs are available.

I don't believe Sweezy would prevent the Cardinals from drafting a RG in the upcoming draft.

 

[Chopper0080]

Interesting. So we let go of LG Pugh after next year. And Sweezy's RG contract expires in 2020, and I think he'll be too old (like 32 at the start of the 2021 season) to sign to another deal, so we let him go too. I know this is the craziest thing ever written, but I wish the Cardinals would start planning to replace Sweezy this year.

Man, If we could get that kind of mileage out of Cole and Gailard, it would be quite a coup. I really hope you're right Chopper.

I think they will. Especially if the team is confident in how Kugler is developing OL. I will have to rewatch the 49ers game, but I think Cole did pretty well. If that is the case, they may choose to move Pugh to RT moving forward using Murray's injury as an excuse. That would move us into the offseason with the following line...

LT-Humphries
LG-Cole
C-Shipley/Gaillard
RG-Sweezy
RT-Pugh/Murray

It is a ton better in terms of contract/position allocation, and you still have the ability to draft and develop. You could draft a RG and/or RT early and it isn't an issue. You still have versatility along the line. You can draft a C in round 1 if Gaillard doesn't develop as hoped. You have depth if players get hurt.

This is all speculation, but fits if you read the quotes from Kugler in the offseason and look at which players have been kept throughout the roster process. Keeping Shipley means something. and keeping Gaillard does as well. Generally, your backup C is not your swing lineman.