Thunder @ Suns game, Sunday 3-3-24

Phrazbit

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I agree but it doesn't change the fact that had KD not fell into their lap, the team has always approached bringing guys in here to compliment Booker.

I don't think that he "fell into their lap". We paid an exorbitant price, it wasn't some sort of windfall.
 
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Covert Rain

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I don't think that he "fell into their lap". We paid an exorbitant price, it wasn't some sort of windfall.
The opportunity to get him is falling into our lap. I didn't say anything about the price.
 

Hoop Head

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That’s besides the point. The Sins can’t strategize for something they didn’t even know was possible until it came out of the blue.

It didn't come out of the blue. The trade was theorized for about 6 months, publicly.
 

Proximo

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All this "#1 or #2" talk is silly anyway IMO.

We were a few possessions away from a title in 2021 without an MVP candidate on the roster.

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts... and sometimes it's less. With this team it's a lot less and the failure of the Durant trade is going to make it nearly impossible to fix going forward.
We need to trade him.

Actually we really need to trade him this offseason, which I know they will probably not do. But one more year basically means he is 37 and nobody is giving you a big trade package for a 37 year old.
 

Phrazbit

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That’s besides the point. The Sins can’t strategize for something they didn’t even know was possible until it came out of the blue.

It was on the table for 6 months, we could have had him for that price in the summer of 2022 and (wisely) balked.

And price can never be beside the point when getting a player. It was a bonkers price to pay.
 

Hoop Head

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Huh? Where do you think that started?

Probably the Olympics 2 years earlier when he and Booker played together. Again, it wasn't "out of the blue". It was discussed and turned down initially because the price was too high. You seem to be bouncing back and forth trying to justify something that was a huge mistake.
 
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Covert Rain

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It was on the table for 6 months, we could have had him for that price in the summer of 2022 and (wisely) balked.

And price can never be beside the point when getting a player. It was a bonkers price to pay.
He still fell in our lap from an opportunity perspective. Opportunities to get someone of KDs caliber are rare. Even more rare in AZ. The Suns prior to learning KD was possible couldn’t possible put a strategy around getting that caliber of a player.
 

Phrazbit

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He still fell in our lap from an opportunity perspective. Opportunities to get someone of KDs caliber are rare. Even more rare in AZ. The Suns prior to learning KD was possible couldn’t possible put a strategy around getting that caliber of a player.

When you factor in the cost and his age and his injury history... which all absolutely must be factored in... it isn't some grand opportunity.

Ironically, Arizona does have a long history of bringing in fading stars that provide far more flash than substance.
 
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Covert Rain

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When you factor in the cost and his age and his injury history... which all absolutely must be factored in... it isn't some grand opportunity.

Ironically, Arizona does have a long history of bringing in fading stars that provide far more flash than substance.
No doubt. We have brought in a bunch of guys at the end of their careers. There was a chance. It was an almost with CP3 so I get why.
 

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Yes… he’s better than Durant on turnovers but regularly DESTROYS possessions by pounding the ball and forcing someone else to make a terrible decision because he either got himself trapped or because he waited too long.

He’s also been flat out ATROCIOUS this year on D.

If KD is a meaningless scorer as you liken him to Melo, Booker ain’t far behind considering KD is at least a fair defender while Booker has been awful and has done nothing to create a good offense despite 7 assists per game.

I get bashing KD, especially when you hated the trade on the first place. I loved the trade and he’s quickly become one of my least favorite Suns EVER in a short amount of time. But no amount of slamming KD should take away from how disappointing Booker has been as the leader of his own team for once. This is a rudderless ship, and a lot of that is because he’s a mental midget who can’t really control an entire game, at least not on a regular basis.

Bottom line… KD isn’t special anymore because he’s old and has never been a leader. But sadly… the lesson this season and Last has taught us is that Book ain’t special either. He is what I’ve always believed him to be… the best #2 in the league, but a painfully mediocre #1, who can’t impact the entirety of a game on a regular basis, is mentally weak and gives no team built around him much hope of winning a title unless it’s just absolutely loaded and totally healthy around him.

THAT is the biggest bummer of this season for me because it means there’s really not much hope for a Booker led Suns future.
One fellow poster suggested that our offense should be like there were non-stars. I agree, at least to start with this mindset. Get the offense flow like in the 1st qrt in the win vs. Lakers, with nobody pounding or holding the ball for too long, not waiting for 10 sec. or so to feed KD who has it hard to make himself ready for the pass. Let the game flow dictates which player gets more touches, like as a result of exploiting weakness of defense. It naturally will converge to our big-3s, but it's less predictable and thus easier for our offense as a whole.

KD's problem is nostalgy as if he still were 5 years younger. Particularly in the 4th, he rarely wants any screen for him to get the ball in his hands. The result is what we've been witnessing the whole season long, when the word spread out that he, and hence Suns offense, is vulnerable to double teaming.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Knives Out this morning on 98.7 just trashing KD AND Booker for their pathetic fourth quarters all year.

The Houston game was really the defining game of the season. In a must win game at home, a bad Rockets team was mentally stronger than us, we couldn’t close in a fourth quarter and we suffered another injury.

Stick a fork in this team, especially with Booker being out 7 to 10 days as our schedule FINALLY gets tough. They’re a play-in team that likely doesn’t even make the playoffs.

Probably better that way anyway. I’ve already seen Booker’s ass get annihilated at home in the playoffs by 40 to close out the last two seasons. Don’t feel the burning desire to see that again.

When I listened they were all in on killing Vogel.

That's the right play.
 

Cheesebeef

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All this "#1 or #2" talk is silly anyway IMO.
Nah... you just can't admit that we can't really build around Booker. That's pretty clear unless it's an absolutely loaded team WITH an MVP level player holding the reins.
We were a few possessions away from a title in 2021 without an MVP candidate on the roster.
That's a ridiculous claim. CP3 was 5th in league voting for MVP, and played the exact same role with that Suns team that Nash did when he came to the Suns and won his MVP.
Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts... and sometimes it's less. With this team it's a lot less and the failure of the Durant trade is going to make it nearly impossible to fix going forward.
LOL... we were a few possessions away from a title in 2021 because we got the BIGGEST injury breaks in Suns history consistently playing teams without their 2nd best or 1st best star and because CP3 WAS an MVP candidate. Or do you think we just magically bottomed out losing 4 games in a row when CP3 went completely AWOL in the last four games of the Finals?
 
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Covert Rain

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When I listened they were all in on killing Vogel.

That's the right play.
This surprises me. Just last week they were all defending Vogel saying they were not going to jump on that bandwagon.
 

Phrazbit

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Nah... you just can't admit that we can't really build around Booker. That's pretty clear unless it's an absolutely loaded team WITH an MVP level player holding the reins.

That's a ridiculous claim. CP3 was 5th in league voting for MVP, and played the exact same role with that Suns team that Nash did when he came to the Suns and won his MVP.

LOL... we were a few possessions away from a title in 2021 because we got the BIGGEST injury breaks in Suns history consistently playing teams without their 2nd best or 1st best star and because CP3 WAS an MVP candidate. Or do you think we just magically bottomed out losing 4 games in a row when CP3 went completely AWOL in the last four games of the Finals?

Paul got 1.3% of the MVP vote... I'd say that was not an MVP contender.

I do agree that Paul, his leadership and his role was crucial to those teams. He was a better compliment to Booker than Durant is. But, as we all know, Paul's health, especially in the playoffs, was a constant issue. Durant shares the problem... Booker hasn't exactly been a tank but not to the extent of either of those guys.

Chris Paul is an interesting case. I am intrigued to hear what guys say about him in 10-15 years from now when players feel more comfortable to tell what happened behind closed doors. I think it is clear, he is the best all around PG of his generation, maybe any generation, he's an insane competitor, but he also clearly wears on teams and teammates. You can tell guys love him in year 1 and by year 3 or 4 they want anything to get away from him.

As far as the luck of health...

I really doubt the Nuggets, Lakers, Spurs, Bucks, Raptors or the Warriors feel bad about the plethora of injuries they benefited from (some deliberately inflicted in the Warriors case). To win a title through the playoffs grind, luck and health will always be a factor.

Wait... unless it's the early 2000s and the league is dog crap, the refs have mafia ties and Shaq is bothering to stay in shape.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yes… he’s better than Durant on turnovers but regularly DESTROYS possessions by pounding the ball and forcing someone else to make a terrible decision because he either got himself trapped or because he waited too long.

He’s also been flat out ATROCIOUS this year on D.

If KD is a meaningless scorer as you liken him to Melo, Booker ain’t far behind considering KD is at least a fair defender while Booker has been awful and has done nothing to create a good offense despite 7 assists per game.

I get bashing KD, especially when you hated the trade on the first place. I loved the trade and he’s quickly become one of my least favorite Suns EVER in a short amount of time. But no amount of slamming KD should take away from how disappointing Booker has been as the leader of his own team for once. This is a rudderless ship, and a lot of that is because he’s a mental midget who can’t really control an entire game, at least not on a regular basis.

Bottom line… KD isn’t special anymore because he’s old and has never been a leader. But sadly… the lesson this season and Last has taught us is that Book ain’t special either. He is what I’ve always believed him to be… the best #2 in the league, but a painfully mediocre #1, who can’t impact the entirety of a game on a regular basis, is mentally weak and gives no team built around him much hope of winning a title unless it’s just absolutely loaded and totally healthy around him.

THAT is the biggest bummer of this season for me because it means there’s really not much hope for a Booker led Suns future.
Yikes
 

JosiahLee

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Knives Out this morning on 98.7 just trashing KD AND Booker for their pathetic fourth quarters all year.

The Houston game was really the defining game of the season. In a must win game at home, a bad Rockets team was mentally stronger than us, we couldn’t close in a fourth quarter and we suffered another injury.

Stick a fork in this team, especially with Booker being out 7 to 10 days as our schedule FINALLY gets tough. They’re a play-in team that likely doesn’t even make the playoffs.

Probably better that way anyway. I’ve already seen Booker’s ass get annihilated at home in the playoffs by 40 to close out the last two seasons. Don’t feel the burning desire to see that again.
I think it’s fair to assume they drop to the 9th or 10th seed for the play-in tournament. Which means they’ll probably have to beat a team like the Lakers or Warriors then turn around and beat a talented Mavericks or Kings team to make the playoffs. It’s just hard to envision that happening given the current play of the team.
 

Cheesebeef

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I think it’s fair to assume they drop to the 9th or 10th seed for the play-in tournament. Which means they’ll probably have to beat a team like the Lakers or Warriors then turn around and beat a talented Mavericks or Kings team to make the playoffs. It’s just hard to envision that happening given the current play of the team.
Yeah… I’ll be surprised. That would mean we likely have to win two do or die games and this team is just so beyond unclutch this season that the idea of that happening is pure fantasy at this point.
 

JosiahLee

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Yeah… I’ll be surprised. That would mean we likely have to win two do or die games and this team is just so beyond unclutch this season that the idea of that happening is pure fantasy at this point.
It is. I'm not saying it can't happen. Just doesn't seem reasonable to expect it to happen. They still have about 20 games left. Maybe just maybe against all odds they can sustain health, find chemistry, and solidify the rotation going into the play-in tournament.
 
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