Suns @ OKC 11/8

[Chaz]

How many teams does D'Antoni need to coach (and fail miserably) for people to stop saying this? D'Antoni has been terrible without Nash.

He did pretty well with the Knicks until they gutted their team to get ball-hog Carmello.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Reasons why going back to DAntoni would be a BAD idea:

1. He only succeeded with Steve Nash running the offense. That is just a fact.
2. The rest of this roster also would not be a fit--notably the absence of Shawn Marion, who made the SSOL offense run almost as much as Steve Nash. While Marion had that amazing jumping ability, he also had never got tired. He could play full out without a rest for long periods of time.
3. The NBA has changed. SSOL was novel at the time the Suns employed, now other teams not only use it, but have the strategy and personnel to defend against it.
4. Even in ideal circumstances, with Nash, Marion, Amare, etc, DAntoni never got to the finals.
5. DAntoni is stubborn. There is no indication at all that he would run more than a 7 man rotation or hire a defensive specialist to improve the team's defense. He would burn out his players before the playoffs IF he could even get this bunch to play.
6. DAntoni does not play young players. If you hire MDA you might as well forget about seeing Booker, Archie, and maybe even Warren. Can you imagine Len getting much burn in a DAntoni offense? You would have to build a different roster to fit his system, because he will not fit his system to the roster.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The problems with the present team:

1. Consistent outside shooting. If they get hot, they win, if they don't they lose big. They need consistent outside shooting.
2. Inconsistency at the center position. Chandler is starting to show his age. Aging players play like their former selves, just not as often. Chandler is still good for this team as a coach on the floor etc, but Len has to step up, because Chandler can not do it as often.
3. Selfish play from Morris. He jacks up shots on offense and does not play defense. I guess he just figures that fans and other GM's arent smart enough to notice. What a tool.
4. Fairly poor play at the starting SF position. There is very little offensive production and the defense isn't what it was either. Warren is now starting to get as many or more minutes than PJ. I suppose a change at the starter position is just a matter of time.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

I would have no problem if the Suns brought back DA. He may be stubborn but you cant deny his success with the Suns while he was here. Give him a GM he can work with and we'll be back in the playoffs and watching exciting basketball again. This current team is going nowhere and hasnt been since the one year Gentry still had DAs roster and system.
If DA had Dragic in his system here I believe he would have been Nash 2.0. None of our pgs are play makers and you cant run a SSOL without one.
Bring back DA. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. We might even sniff the playoffs again which isnt going to happen anytime soon status quo.

DA's years with the Suns. Sucked didnt it?

2007-08 Phoenix 55 - 27 .671 2nd Pacific Division 1 - 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
2006-07 Phoenix 61 - 21 .744 1st Pacific Division 6 - 5 .545 Lost West Conf Semis
2005-06 Phoenix 54 - 28 .659 1st Pacific Division 10 - 10 .500 Lost West Conf Finals
2004-05 Phoenix 62 - 20 .756 1st Pacific Division 9 - 6 .600 Lost West Conf Finals
2003-04 Phoenix 29 - 53 .354 6th Pacific Division - - DNQ

 

[Chaplin]

What is this ridiculous talk about bringing back D'Antoni?

Does anyone remember that our record was not because of D'Antoni, but because of Steve Nash? Unbelievable the credit he's getting here after all the issues we had with him over the years.

Getting to the playoffs was all Nash, getting ousted from the playoffs, well, that was on DA because he played his veterans into the ground.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

What is this ridiculous talk about bringing back D'Antoni?

Does anyone remember that our record was not because of D'Antoni, but because of Steve Nash? Unbelievable the credit he's getting here after all the issues we had with him over the years.

Getting to the playoffs was all Nash, getting ousted from the playoffs, well, that was on DA because he played his veterans into the ground.

At least we were in the playoffs 4 - 5 yrs DA was here. It wasnt DA who told Amare to leave the bench, or any of the other bizzare happenings in the conf finals.
Nash was the on floor general thats true. But DA could replicate that with another true PG and with a GM that gives him control of the roster.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

What is this ridiculous talk about bringing back D'Antoni?

Mainstreet brought up the subject. Im just chiming in with my thoughts.

 

[elindholm]

I still haven't given up on a version of SSOL even without Nash.

I know you haven't, but everyone else has.

GS has done well with this style

No they haven't. Their defense is among the best in the league.

but of course they have Curry as the trigger man.

Right, but that's not SSOL. You have a guy who's a deadly shooter from anywhere and can get his shot off pretty much any time, and the rest of the offense feeds off of that. That's a standard recipe -- provided you have the superstar scorer at the center of it.

However, I can't help but think the Suns would play better under DA with some adjustments.

I wish you could help it, for your own good. I hate to see you suffer.

At least the Suns might sniff the playoffs.

They'll be somewhere in the race anyway. I stand by my original prediction that the Suns will be looking better by Thanksgiving, by which I mean somewhere around .500.

 

[elindholm]

I swear this board drives me crazy. Most people here couldn't wait to move on from the Nash era, because the team "only" made the conference finals however many times. A few of us kept saying, be careful what you wish for; rebuilding isn't as easy as shipping off the old guys and installing some suits who say the word "defense" at every opportunity.

Anyone who didn't see this long dry stretch coming was fooling themselves. Every NBA team (well, almost every one) is trying to win, but only some of them can. Until you get everything aligned -- front office, coach, roster, "style" -- you're not going to be any good. The league is just too tough.

As I've said many times before, the Suns' overachievement in Hornacek's first year was terrible luck. It created the illusion that the franchise was on to something and had magically figured out a way to bypass all of the usual rebuilding pains. Of course, nearly all of the players who made up that team are now gone, and the high draft picks that the Suns were supposed to have -- either their own, had they been as bad as they were supposed to be, or those that they were clever enough to acquire -- are also gone, for one reason or other.

The Suns have a long way to go. There is no quick fix. Get used to it.

 

[JustWinBaby]

He did pretty well with the Knicks until they gutted their team to get ball-hog Carmello.

Amen

Thank goodness someone has a clue about D'Antoni. The Knicks were winning and one of the most exciting teams in the league with Raymond Felton at the point. Then Dolan just had to get a star so he went after Melo while gutting the roster of all the YOUNGSTERS D'Antoni was developing and winning with, along with draft picks.

In LA things would have been fine except for the roster make up.

1. It was Kobe's and Gasol's team, (Nash, Howard and D'Antoni) were outsiders.
2. Howard and Gasol despised each other.
3. Kobe called out Howard for having no heart and they despised each other. Howard could not wait to get out of LA and away from Kobe.
4. Kobe decided that he should handle the ball more than Nash, when Nash was healthy. He thought Nash would be a great spot up shooter but Kobe wanted to shoot all the time, along with handing out assists.
5. Most of the roster was injured at some point during the season.
6. I believe they were 0 and 8 prior to Mike arriving.
7. The Lakers made the playoffs and got beat in the first round after Kobe went down.
8. Howard left the next year and Kobe was hurt along with Nash. They had zero talent other than Gasol.
9. Mike was not able to manage the personalities on that team, that was his downfall. I am not sure anyone could have. Even the great Phil Jackson did not jump at the opportunity to become coach of that group.

I wish Mike would have never taken that job. I expect that it will haunt him for the rest of his life.

I have no idea why anyone would prefer to have Hornacek as our coach over D'Antoni. It really make no sense.

Hire Nash as Head Coach with MDA as his lead assistant while adding Thibodeau as your defensive assistant. I expect that group would be able to make the current Suns roster relevant.

I would even take Thibodeau as head coach with Mike as his assistant, or just Thibodeau. I can no longer watch a Hornacek coached team.

It would cost a bunch to put that group together but we have invested millions into players that are playing the wrong way, with no improvement in sight. If our upper management does not see the same thing I have no idea what they are watching. It is time to stop blaming the players for every loss.

It is time to fix our biggest issue. Fire Hornacek.

Certainly this roster is not perfect but I do not think it is as bad as most of you make it out to be. I do think it is being managed horribly.

I know most of you disagree but at some point you will see the light.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If there is anyone to long to have back, it would probably be Goran. He played well for the Suns and Horny, and he doesn't seem to be thriving where he is. But I don't know if that would be the answer anyway.

Knight for Goran? Not espousing, just sort of thinking out loud.

 

[Catlover]

If there is anyone to long to have back, it would probably be Goran. He played well for the Suns and Horny, and he doesn't seem to be thriving where he is. But I don't know if that would be the answer anyway.

Knight for Goran? Not espousing, just sort of thinking out loud.

As far as I'm concerned, Knight, even on a problem ankle, has played far better to start this season than Goran did to start last season.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Amen

Hire Nash as Head Coach with MDA as his lead assistant while adding Thibodeau as your defensive assistant. I expect that group would be able to make the current Suns roster relevant.


The only difference id make is DA head coach, Nash and Thibo as assistants.
Their would be no way our next coach doesnt have prior head coach experience.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Knight hasnt been bad other than the last game with the TOs. What do you expect from him. He's not a playmaking PG?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Amen

Hire Nash as Head Coach with MDA as his lead assistant while adding Thibodeau as your defensive assistant. I expect that group would be able to make the current Suns roster relevant.


The only difference id make is DA head coach, Nash and Thibo as assistants.
Their would be no way our next coach doesnt have prior head coach experience.

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The entire league has passed on him being their next head coach for the past two off-seasons. Not one job, not even one INTERVIEW for a host of open coaching positions... for two consecutive off-seasons.

he was a one-trick pony. everyone but a few Suns fans have come to realize this.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Knight hasnt been bad other than the last game with the TOs. What do you expect from him. He's not a playmaking PG?

Knight is playing much better than Nash did at the same age. Something happened to Nash at about 25-26 years old. He suddenly went from the 36% shooter to a 50% shooter. I think it was his second year in Dallas.

I sure wish Knight could work some with Nash, because I think he is smart enough to get it. Once Nash really improved his 2 point effeciency, he moved to MVP status.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Knight is playing much better than Nash did at the same age. Something happened to Nash at about 25-26 years old. He suddenly went from the 36% shooter to a 50% shooter. I think it was his second year in Dallas.

I sure wish Knight could work some with Nash, because I think he is smart enough to get it. Once Nash really improved his 2 point effeciency, he moved to MVP status.

You make a great point. With Nash's tutoring Knight would develop much quicker. I wished the Suns would have approached Steve before GS.

 

[Chaz]

Nothing I have said should be construed to indicate I want D'Antoni back.

As E said we are still rebuilding. This stuff doesn't happen quickly. Making changes for their own sake will not speed up the process. If they can somehow get into the top 8 in the West by the end of the year it is a successful season.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

The entire league has passed on him being their next head coach for the past two off-seasons. Not one job, not even one INTERVIEW for a host of open coaching positions... for two consecutive off-seasons.

he was a one-trick pony. everyone but a few Suns fans have come to realize this.

I think his being passed on from open jobs in the league has more to do with the disasters in NY & LA not his time in PHX. After the PHX job he was in high demand.

 

[Phrazbit]

I see its time for our monthly "Lets see who has a reality detachment" debate when it comes to Mike D'Anotni.

The guy has not just struggled when separated from Nash... he has been absolute horse ****. A sub .400 winning percentage, he never won a playoff game without Nash.

I cannot even fathom how wretched he would be with this roster.

My favorite D'Anotni fact is that when he got fired from New York (a place where his supporters say he failed because of his roster) Mike Woodson (another flat out horrible coach) comes in and instantly doubles the team's winning percentage and gets them into the second round.

 

[Phrazbit]

If there is anyone to long to have back, it would probably be Goran. He played well for the Suns and Horny, and he doesn't seem to be thriving where he is. But I don't know if that would be the answer anyway.

Knight for Goran? Not espousing, just sort of thinking out loud.

I suspect the egos on both sides of that burned bridge wouldn't allow for that.

I doubt Goran's numbers stay quite as terrible as they are right now but I don't think they're a fluke, for all but one year of his career he has been pretty mediocre. And besides, Goran's game isn't going to age well, he relies almost entirely on his quickness.

 

[sunsfan88]

I was a really big Dragic fan but I'm not sure I want him back anymore. Too much has happened plus I would like to have a SG that's a pretty good defender especially since our "best defender" Tucker has fallen off the cliff.

 

[elindholm]

Bledsoe is starting to look like more of a leader. It would be counterproductive to bring Dragic back now, for that reason among many others. Also his contract is ridiculous.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know you haven't, but everyone else has.

Steve Kerr and Alvin Gentry both have given Mike D’Antoni credit for laying the foundation for the style of play GS used to win a championship. There is article after article about it. You can call it by another name if you like.

No they haven't. Their defense is among the best in the league.

Steve Kerr added defense to the SSOL style which was the weak link with DA.

Right, but that's not SSOL. You have a guy who's a deadly shooter from anywhere and can get his shot off pretty much any time, and the rest of the offense feeds off of that. That's a standard recipe -- provided you have the superstar scorer at the center of it.

If a team doesn't have Steve Nash or Stephen Curry does not mean it cannot be a winning formula... maybe not championship caliber team but still a playoff team.

I wish you could help it, for your own good. I hate to see you suffer.

I still believe in this style of offense. The addition of defense is necessary to make it that much better.

They'll be somewhere in the race anyway. I stand by my original prediction that the Suns will be looking better by Thanksgiving, by which I mean somewhere around .500.

I hope your prediction is correct. However, I have some concern the team may implode if the players get frustrated like last season.