Suns @ Jazz Sunday game thread, 11-19-2023

Phrazbit

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What this team misses most, compared to the last few years, is Chris Paul's ability to grind out the end of games. Our offense is pure chaos at the end of games, it's either wild, desperate ball swinging around the outside or it is Booker or Durant in ISO, typically settling for a contested 3.

I swear, a 5 point lead late in a game is meaningless for this team.

Booker probably needs to be more ball dominant late. He is a much more reliable ball handler and play maker than anyone else on the roster. Let him instigate the offense, run some actual set plays.

Other than that... defense, especially defensive communication. You can cover for bad defenders (which we have a lot of) if you have guys who understand the scheme and, at least try to, execute it. We accidentally double team dudes off the ball because guys don't track the right man at an alarming rate.
 

Hoop Head

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Missed this but glad to see we got a W and are back above 500. Utah is underrated and might make a push this year. They have a lot of talent but likely need to shed some frontcourt depth for backup help.

Suns have a 3 game winning streak going, which is largely thanks to Booker. Be nice to keep it going and get some separation between W's and L's. Year is young and the play with Booker is encouraging. Hopefully Beal is cleared in early December and helps us go on another run.

Suns aren't the only team battling injuries. Not sure what the deal is as I thought changes to the rules as far as needing to play in 65+ games to qualify for season awards would have more stars playing but it doesn't seem to help. This generation is entirely different from those who came before it. I think there's too much money on the line now and it causes players to be more cautious because no one has trouble signing big deals if they have talent even if they don't play, see Zion, Ben Simmons, Embiid, Kawhi, even KD got a max deal when he tore his Achilles and wasn't playing for a full year. I'd like to see some correction where a team is able to add a year if a player misses a year, freezing their salary. They still get paid for the time they missed but they owe the team a year of playing. I can't see the players association accepting something like that though.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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My only comment for last night’s game: this was a game that the suns should have easily put away in regulation and should have easily put away in OT and should have easily put away in double OT being up 5 with little time left and up 3 in each instance with under a minute to go and they failed twice, and almost a third time. A win is a win, and I won’t think twice about this w in a month, but that was very ugly last night despite getting great contributions from the team around KD and book and a monster game from KD.
 

BirdGangThing

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The average NBA team wins 41 games in a 82 game season and yes - I'd say we're definitely expecting to be far better than average but come on

This team just barely got together and has been missing one or two key elements during it's short entirety

The whole we should be up by 20 at all times is never going to happen - sure we'll get better as the year goes but there will always be nights where we lose to teams we should beat - happens to every team

It's due to both - a plethora of talent in the league and the law of averages - what goes up must come down

Until we've fully gelled - a lot of folks are going to stay steady disappointed
 

BirdGangThing

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The average NBA team wins 41 games in a 82 game season and yes - I'd say we're definitely expecting to be far better than average but come on

This team just barely got together and has been missing one or two key elements during it's short entirety

The whole we should be up by 20 at all times is never going to happen - sure we'll get better as the year goes but there will always be nights where we lose to teams we should beat - happens to every team

It's due to both - a plethora of talent in the league and the law of averages - what goes up must come down

Until we've fully gelled - a lot of folks are going to stay steady disappointed
This is how last year's teams finished

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Suns were only 8 games above .500 and we'd be lucky to repeat that - hell - the Thunder were below .500 and still made it in

All I'm saying is we're likely only going to be slightly over .500 for the foreseeable future - and that doesn't mean the trades were failures - doesn't mean Vogel is failing - it means we can still score our asses off but the defense and turnovers will take some time to correct

It's not like we "added a couple pieces"

We're talking complete overhaul
 
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Mainstreet

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Missed this but glad to see we got a W and are back above 500. Utah is underrated and might make a push this year. They have a lot of talent but likely need to shed some frontcourt depth for backup help.

Suns have a 3 game winning streak going, which is largely thanks to Booker. Be nice to keep it going and get some separation between W's and L's. Year is young and the play with Booker is encouraging. Hopefully Beal is cleared in early December and helps us go on another run.

Suns aren't the only team battling injuries. Not sure what the deal is as I thought changes to the rules as far as needing to play in 65+ games to qualify for season awards would have more stars playing but it doesn't seem to help. This generation is entirely different from those who came before it. I think there's too much money on the line now and it causes players to be more cautious because no one has trouble signing big deals if they have talent even if they don't play, see Zion, Ben Simmons, Embiid, Kawhi, even KD got a max deal when he tore his Achilles and wasn't playing for a full year. I'd like to see some correction where a team is able to add a year if a player misses a year, freezing their salary. They still get paid for the time they missed but they owe the team a year of playing. I can't see the players association accepting something like that though.

It could be the stars that are missing games now are legitimately injured. Maybe it won't be this way later in the season, but perhaps the NBA should be looking at teams that abuse rules, like the Mavericks did last season by sitting key players to avoid the play-in.

The minimum 65 game standard may be too high.
 

Suns_fan69

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Possibly unpopular opinion, but I think Eric Gordon's minutes should drop dramatically. His effort on defense has been pretty bad. He's still passable as an on-ball defender, but he's missed rotations, flat out just given up on plays and in general is a liability. His shooting is valuable, but we have players who can make shots and still give effort on defense (Little should pick up these minutes).
 

ajcardfan

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Do you mean "Suns legend Tom Chambers"? That guy is senile.
Chambers used to sit about 4 rows in front of me at Cardinals games. This was for a couple of years I want to say late Whisenhunt, early Arians. He drank a lot. One time I am in line behind him at the concession stand and he is swaying he is so drunk. He topples into me. He turns around to look at me and I say "I hope you're not driving.". (IIRC he had a DUI not to long before this.). He tells me to Eff off. So, not just senile, brain damage for other reasons as well.

But, he seems to be doing much better which is good.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The average NBA team wins 41 games in a 82 game season and yes - I'd say we're definitely expecting to be far better than average but come on

This team just barely got together and has been missing one or two key elements during it's short entirety

The whole we should be up by 20 at all times is never going to happen - sure we'll get better as the year goes but there will always be nights where we lose to teams we should beat - happens to every team

It's due to both - a plethora of talent in the league and the law of averages - what goes up must come down

Until we've fully gelled - a lot of folks are going to stay steady disappointed
It’s not the record that frustrates me, it’s the boneheaded plays. For a team full of vets they have an uncanny number of flat out mind boggling turnovers and mental gaffes.

I fully recognize new team, new coaches, book only played in 4 games, beal only 2 and no big three game yet. But I’m confounded at some of the decisionmaking of these long time vets. We play kinda lazy/sloppy ball.
 

BirdGangThing

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Wasn't Tom Chambers in some kind of 4X4 truck dealership war with someone? Someone told me about it at a bar one night so idk lol but they said there was all kinds of foul play involved - and that the other dealership supposedly won the battle and still advertises during Suns games lol - just to **** with Tom Chambers
 

Dr. Jones

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KD is an alien. That was an unbelievable two games.

Our turnovers need to be fixed. Hopefully playing together will fix some of it because they are very sloppy with the ball.

Vogel made a difference last night. And maybe Young with the way they schemed up their OT possessions.

We saw an insane amount of random bounces go against our guys last night and they still fought to the win. All the long rebounds and the tying layups by Laurie & Colin.

Our defense still isn't anywhere near good enough. But KBD should play more. Hit them corner threes baby!

Grayson Allen is our 5th starter. I'm hating that I love him but he's been great.
 

GatorAZ

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Chambers used to sit about 4 rows in front of me at Cardinals games. This was for a couple of years I want to say late Whisenhunt, early Arians. He drank a lot. One time I am in line behind him at the concession stand and he is swaying he is so drunk. He topples into me. He turns around to look at me and I say "I hope you're not driving.". (IIRC he had a DUI not to long before this.). He tells me to Eff off. So, not just senile, brain damage for other reasons as well.

But, he seems to be doing much better which is good.

I’ve also seen him be a horse’s ass in past years but from everything I’ve heard he’s changed quite a bit for the better.
 

Cheesebeef

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Wasn't Tom Chambers in some kind of 4X4 truck dealership war with someone? Someone told me about it at a bar one night so idk lol but they said there was all kinds of foul play involved - and that the other dealership supposedly won the battle and still advertises during Suns games lol - just to **** with Tom Chambers
One of my best friends back in the 80’s heyday loved TC and tried to get an autograph from him after the game and Chambers response to the person with him was “Get the little n-word away from me.”

Dude sucks. Period.
 

Hoop Head

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Wasn't Tom Chambers in some kind of 4X4 truck dealership war with someone? Someone told me about it at a bar one night so idk lol but they said there was all kinds of foul play involved - and that the other dealership supposedly won the battle and still advertises during Suns games lol - just to **** with Tom Chambers

I thought it was a real estate or contracting business. Could be wrong. I do remember hearing a similar story back when I lived in Cave Creek. He'd find his way up to some of the bars in that area and though I didn't cross paths with him, a lot of friends and acquaintances did. That was around when he got one of his DUI's.
 
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