Suns @ Clippers Monday game thread 1-8-2024

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Mainstreet

Mainstreet

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I don't see any happiness on this team. It's really sad.

Devin Booker used to be upbeat but he seems to be drifting away. Maybe it's the losing, pressure, coaching, roster or added point guard duties.

I'd like to relate to the players and coaches but they are not the people I have grown to know and like such as Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, JaVale McGee, Frank Kaminsky, Dario Saric and Cam Payne.

I even miss Monty's quotes.
 

Covert Rain

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This team is so bad defensively. That is supposed to be Vogel’s thing yet they are failing miserably when it counts. The offense again is so basic.

Vogel is a terrible terrible coach.
 

Superbone

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Can we have a do over and go back half a season? I’ll gladly watch a regular season of the team we had the first half of last year with Williams coaching even if we flame out in the playoffs. There’s a good chance this team doesn’t even make the playoffs.
 

Hoop Head

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It's incredibly hard rooting for this team.

It's sad that they're on free tv and it's hard to tune in to watch them. Like @Mainstreet said there isn't anything likable or relatable about this team. There's also no easy or quick fix. We've got no young talent to retool with and focus on developing. We gave all that up for a 34, now 35, year old Kevin Durant who doesn't want to lead and won't be effective much longer. Even the Beal trade looks bad now because we're stuck with him due to his no trade clause and that means we're likely stuck playing Booker out of position so long as both are here. There's no light at the end of this tunnel.
 

hcsilla

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It's sad that they're on free tv and it's hard to tune in to watch them. Like @Mainstreet said there isn't anything likable or relatable about this team. There's also no easy or quick fix. We've got no young talent to retool with and focus on developing. We gave all that up for a 34, now 35, year old Kevin Durant who doesn't want to lead and won't be effective much longer. Even the Beal trade looks bad now because we're stuck with him due to his no trade clause and that means we're likely stuck playing Booker out of position so long as both are here. There's no light at the end of this tunnel.
The only bright spot of a quick rebuilding that Beal will quickly want to move on as well, so his no-trade clause won't really matter.
 

Peter Sheldon

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It’s getting really hard to watch these games. even worse than when they were young and losing. Now they are old and losing with no trade pick. Booker looks like a shell of his former self. How do Clipps afford Kubiac as well as a big 4 and also have excellent coach? Absolutely no weaknesses. And what is it with our centers tapping the ball while rebounding inevitably going to the opponent rather than going up and grabbing the damn thing?
 
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CardNots

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We suck!

Can we un-suck at some point during the season?

I don’t see it happening, sigh…

ps Book as a point guard, painful
 

Proximo

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Well - the Clippers played outstanding. How much of that was the Suns D - I'm not really sure to be honest - some of it certainly

Clearly this Suns team is not built right. We don't have enough competent role players who create turnovers, play good defense, and rebound.

Can we get better this season - Yes. Can we get good enough to compete for a title - No.

This is a dark place, because this is the team we went all in on - and it is not working, and does not appear it will ever work.
 

CardNots

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Well - the Clippers played outstanding. How much of that was the Suns D - I'm not really sure to be honest - some of it certainly

Clearly this Suns team is not built right. We don't have enough competent role players who create turnovers, play good defense, and rebound.

Can we get better this season - Yes. Can we get good enough to compete for a title - No.

This is a dark place, because this is the team we went all in on - and it is not working, and does not appear it will ever work.
Depressing

It seems we catch teams on one of their best nights. Are these teams more motivated because we are the Suns or is the performance from Suns lacking?

We continue to fade in the 4th QTR. are we too old or is it a lack of focus.

My hope is their play is by design. Cruise through the schedule until the last month of the season holding cards close to the vest.

As a fan I stopped taping the games as I had begun to think I was putting some kind of bad mojo on the team. The good news, it wasn’t me.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Depressing

It seems we catch teams on their best nights. Are these teams more motivated because we are the Suns or does the performance from Suns is lacking.

We continue to fade in the 4th QTR. are we too old or it a lack of focus.

My hope is their play is by design. Cruise through the schedule until the last month of the season holding cards close to the vest.

As a fan I stopped taping the games as I had begun to think I was putting some kind of bad mojo on the team. The good news it wasn’t me.
Substitute and for or and you've nailed it.
 

wagon mound 464

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Upcoming, long road trip will tell us more about this team. Mostly tough games ahead. If the outcome don't change, time for some
azz kicking. If they can't win in tough games on the road, then they don't belong in playoff talk.
 

95pro

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This team just freaking sucks

Lazy - book used to play defense. Now he’s lazy on that end. And point book just sucks.

Biggest disappointment I’ve ever seen in any Arizona team.

Book is asked to do too many thing ousidet of his scope of work as a SG. He was competent at both ends of the court when CP3 was PG. Now as PG, Booker just doesn't have it on the defensive end because he is now the best PG and best defender as a guard.

Most other PG's have that off guard who is also a defender. Book doesn't have that luxury cause we can't start JO or Goodwin alongside Book because they suck on offense.
 

AzStevenCal

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The Suns cannot guard the 3-point line or rebound.
And we cannot guard the paint or make 3 point baskets either. But hopefully, it's "don't" rather than "cannot". If it isn't fixable by the coaching staff, it's going to take many years to fix it any other way IMO.
 

Chaplin

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This Suns team = hot garbage! Blow it up
We can't blow it up! There are certain thing we know to be true:

1) We aren't trading any of the big 3. So delusions of grandeur about trading KD are just that: Delusions.
2) It's been almost 40 games and while I though up until the Memphis game we had turned a coaching corner, the past 2 games have shown that Vogel will be what he is - a mediocre coach not set up for success with this roster. If that's the failing of the coach or the roster itself, I don't know, but he doesn't seem to be able to create good gameplans over a 48-minute game.
3) We need to stop making excuses for James Jones. If he is making these decisions, then he likely needs to go. If he's not, then he needs to go so we can bring someone in that can. Right now, he's not even looking like a figurehead/mouthpiece because he doesn't actually talk to anybody. So what is he doing exactly?
4) Ishbia is LIGHT YEARS better than the previous guy. Period. Full Stop.
5) Our turnover situation (at least turnover volume) improved immediately when Beal finally came back. He's also much more viable and successful as a Point Guard in whatever you want to call this offense. We need a coach that recognizes it and actually gameplans to take advantage of that.
6) Book is getting a lot of hate right now, but it's simply because he's doing too much. Which championship squad has their #1 or #2 as a point guard? Only two: Denver and Milwaukee. Maybe two with Dallas, but I don't consider them a contender. Everyone else is either on the outside looking in or their most important players are those that aren't point guards -- that includes Boston and New Orleans and OKC. Book needs to spend more time in his natural position and less time as Point Book. That is also a COACHING PROBLEM.
7) We have the 2 best 3 point shooters in the entire league but we take near the lowest number of threes in the NBA. Having a high percentage is cool, but it's not contributing to winning games in most scenarios because we don't do it enough.

Our easiest tradable assets are either untradable today (like Nassir Little) or we don't want to trade them (Grayson Allen). So our hands are tied when it comes to action items. But running the same old crap every game isn't working either. The easiest and simplest thing to do at this moment is to do a coaching change. That's step 1.
 

elindholm

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3) We need to stop making excuses for James Jones. If he is making these decisions, then he likely needs to go. If he's not, then he needs to go so we can bring someone in that can. Right now, he's not even looking like a figurehead/mouthpiece because he doesn't actually talk to anybody. So what is he doing exactly?

Jones is the last guy to blame. Ishbia forced him into bad trades and completely tied his hands. He managed to fill out the roster with marginally competent guys willing to play for the minimum. What else is he supposed to do? The reason we aren't hearing anything is because he is, as you said, a figurehead. But anyone in that position would be a figurehead now, thanks to Ishbia calling all of the shots.

4) Ishbia is LIGHT YEARS better than the previous guy. Period. Full Stop.

Personally, probably. In terms of leadership of a basketball team, there's no evidence at all to suggest that he's better. Both he and Sarver came in thinking that they knew a lot more than they did, and wreaking havoc from Day One. Time will tell who did more long-term damage.

Our easiest tradable assets are either untradable today (like Nassir Little) or we don't want to trade them (Grayson Allen). So our hands are tied when it comes to action items.

Correct. A real GM would recognize that this team is circling the drain and summon the courage to trade Durant, but you're right that that's extremely unlikely. So what moves do the Suns have? This is what many of us have been saying since the off-season: That the big trades left the Suns with zero flexibility, so their only hope was to catch lightning in a bottle with this roster that has been assembled basically at random.

But running the same old crap every game isn't working either. The easiest and simplest thing to do at this moment is to do a coaching change. That's step 1.

Do you think this team is coachable at all? It's two aging stars making insane money, the face of the franchise who is pouting because he's seeing his future go up in flames, and a bunch of castoffs who couldn't care less about the "Phoenix Suns" as an entity. Firing the coach would just reinforce the sentiment that the situation is hopeless.

The turnaround has to come from Booker and Durant. Otherwise it ain't happening.
 

Covert Rain

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Jones is the last guy to blame. Ishbia forced him into bad trades and completely tied his hands. He managed to fill out the roster with marginally competent guys willing to play for the minimum. What else is he supposed to do? The reason we aren't hearing anything is because he is, as you said, a figurehead. But anyone in that position would be a figurehead now, thanks to Ishbia calling all of the shots.
This could be accurate, but I don't buy it. I think JJ has been the architect behind moves. The difference is Sarver wouldn't bite because of money sometimes and I think Ishbia is a "go for it" guy.

Personally, probably. In terms of leadership of a basketball team, there's no evidence at all to suggest that he's better. Both he and Sarver came in thinking that they knew a lot more than they did, and wreaking havoc from Day One. Time will tell who did more long-term damage.
Ishbia took a gamble and was willing to lay it on the line. If it doesn't work out so be it. I will take that any day of the week over Sarver. They are not even comparable. Sarver is the guy that thought agents could run the organization better than basketball guys. That doesn't even include all the money based decisions I could make a list about. Maybe Ishbia ends up being a bad owner too but I would rather have an owner not bound by his checkbook any day of the week.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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We can't blow it up! There are certain thing we know to be true:

1) We aren't trading any of the big 3. So delusions of grandeur about trading KD are just that: Delusions.
2) It's been almost 40 games and while I though up until the Memphis game we had turned a coaching corner, the past 2 games have shown that Vogel will be what he is - a mediocre coach not set up for success with this roster. If that's the failing of the coach or the roster itself, I don't know, but he doesn't seem to be able to create good gameplans over a 48-minute game.
3) We need to stop making excuses for James Jones. If he is making these decisions, then he likely needs to go. If he's not, then he needs to go so we can bring someone in that can. Right now, he's not even looking like a figurehead/mouthpiece because he doesn't actually talk to anybody. So what is he doing exactly?
4) Ishbia is LIGHT YEARS better than the previous guy. Period. Full Stop.
5) Our turnover situation (at least turnover volume) improved immediately when Beal finally came back. He's also much more viable and successful as a Point Guard in whatever you want to call this offense. We need a coach that recognizes it and actually gameplans to take advantage of that.
6) Book is getting a lot of hate right now, but it's simply because he's doing too much. Which championship squad has their #1 or #2 as a point guard? Only two: Denver and Milwaukee. Maybe two with Dallas, but I don't consider them a contender. Everyone else is either on the outside looking in or their most important players are those that aren't point guards -- that includes Boston and New Orleans and OKC. Book needs to spend more time in his natural position and less time as Point Book. That is also a COACHING PROBLEM.
7) We have the 2 best 3 point shooters in the entire league but we take near the lowest number of threes in the NBA. Having a high percentage is cool, but it's not contributing to winning games in most scenarios because we don't do it enough.

Our easiest tradable assets are either untradable today (like Nassir Little) or we don't want to trade them (Grayson Allen). So our hands are tied when it comes to action items. But running the same old crap every game isn't working either. The easiest and simplest thing to do at this moment is to do a coaching change. That's step 1.
I’d say OKC and Sac fall into the contenders with pg as their #1 or #2 right now too.

That’s not the problem. It’s that Booker isn’t a legit pg.
 

Covert Rain

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I’d say OKC and Sac fall into the contenders with pg as their #1 or #2 right now too.

That’s not the problem. It’s that Booker isn’t a legit pg.
Going back to "Point Book" was a big fear of mine the first time I heard them mention it. Then he started lighting it up and I thought..well maybe the light has turned on. However, the offense simply doesn't look right with him being our floor general. There is absolutely no flow for huge chunks of the game.
 

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