Preseason: Suns @ Lakers Sunday game thread 10-10-2021

[1Sun]

I think our depth is routinely overstated but this year I believe we're legit 9 deep with solid NBA players who could be starters (Paul, Book, Bridges, Jae, Ayton, Payne, Cam J, McGee, and Shamet) and then 3 more good depth signings (Nader, Frank, and Elfrid) to go with Jalen Smith.

Four of their starting five are solid starters, with Jae being below average at power forward.

Nobody on their bench is good enough to start for any decent team, but Cam J, McGee and Shamet, and Payne if he can fix his shot again, are good bench guys.

At this stage, Nader, Frank, Elfrid and Smith would have difficulty making the roster of many other teams, particularly those with playoff aspirations.

 

[Muggz]

Four of their starting five are solid starters, with Jae being below average at power forward.

Nobody on their bench is good enough to start for any decent team, but Cam J, McGee and Shamet, and Payne if he can fix his shot again, are good bench guys.

At this stage, Nader, Frank, Elfrid and Smith would have difficulty making the roster of many other teams, particularly those with playoff aspirations.

Remember Debbie Downer from SNL? I hear that noise every time you post. Props

 

[Muggz]

This is the Forum

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[Muggz]

Four of their starting five are solid starters, with Jae being below average at power forward.

Nobody on their bench is good enough to start for any decent team, but Cam J, McGee and Shamet, and Payne if he can fix his shot again, are good bench guys.

At this stage, Nader, Frank, Elfrid and Smith would have difficulty making the roster of many other teams, particularly those with playoff aspirations.

How do you honestly think we match up with the rest to the league. Be honest.

Just for kicks try to do it without mentioning the words Power or Forward we ALL want one.

 

[1Sun]

How do you honestly think we match up with the rest to the league. Be honest.

Just for kicks try to do it without mentioning the words Power or Forward we ALL want one.

I think we're solid, but barring lucky breaks health-wise (and other teams having unlucky breaks), we're not among the championship favorites.

As I posted in other threads, I think this roster as currently constructed is good for 48 wins and a 6th or 7th place finish in the West.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think we're solid, but barring lucky breaks health-wise (and other teams having unlucky breaks), we're not among the championship favorites.

As I posted in other threads, I think this roster as currently constructed is good for 48 wins and a 6th or 7th place finish in the West.

I agree with your opening sentence. I think we'll finish a little higher than your closing sentence suggests but I wouldn't be shocked to finish around 50 wins and fail to get home court in the first round. I think we appear to be a better team this season than we were last year (which would indicate 58 wins or more) but we had great chemistry and good health last year and those things aren't promised from season to season.

Add a backup power forward that could move Cameron further down the rotation and I think we maybe gain a win or two but not appreciably change our postseason potential. I think we're a near prime Barkley addition away from favorite territory which isn't going to happen but as it is we're in that fairly large group of teams (Denver, Utah, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Philadelphia etc.) that could still get lucky and win it all.

 

[1Sun]

I agree with your opening sentence. I think we'll finish a little higher than your closing sentence suggests but I wouldn't be shocked to finish around 50 wins and fail to get home court in the first round. I think we appear to be a better team this season than we were last year (which would indicate 58 wins or more) but we had great chemistry and good health last year and those things aren't promised from season to season.

Add a backup power forward that could move Cameron further down the rotation and I think we maybe gain a win or two but not appreciably change our postseason potential. I think we're a near prime Barkley addition away from favorite territory which isn't going to happen but as it is we're in that fairly large group of teams (Denver, Utah, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Philadelphia etc.) that could still get lucky and win it all.

I actually think we are merely a power forward better than Jae Crowder away from favorite territory, and even a second power forward at the level of Jae Crowder with Cam J backing up primarily at the 3 instead of being forced to play out of position at the 4 (where even with the added weight, he still looks weak in terms of rebounding, rim protection and interior play on both ends of the court) would add at least 6-8 wins to my projection.

We don't need a prime Charles Barkley as long as CP3 maintains his level of play. We just need another serviceable power forward.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I actually think we are merely a power forward better than Jae Crowder away from favorite territory, and even a second power forward at the level of Jae Crowder with Cam J backing up primarily at the 3 instead of being forced to play out of position at the 4 (where even with the added weight, he still looks weak in terms of rebounding, rim protection and interior play on both ends of the court) would add at least 6-8 wins to my projection.

We don't need a prime Charles Barkley as long as CP3 maintains his level of play. We just need another serviceable power forward.

I disagree but IMO we were never in the running for a power forward that would move Crowder to the bench. I like T Young and feel he was probably the best fit of all available (or possibly available) but I doubt even he'd start over Jae.

 

[1Sun]

I disagree but IMO we were never in the running for a power forward that would move Crowder to the bench. I like T Young and feel he was probably the best fit of all available (or possibly available) but I doubt even he'd start over Jae.

Probably not, but with him, at least there would be no drop-off if Jae goes to the bench or gets hurt, and he offers contributions in areas the Suns really need.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's more about having quality depth than necessarily adding a player better than another.

The Suns starting unit is just fine but they need to add depth where they can continue to pressure teams for a full 48 minutes at every position for an 82 game schedule... plus the playoffs.

The Suns won many games last season with their bench but the Suns can't be a Saric type injury away from a championship. This may be an over simplification but the NBA schedule is a war of attrition, fatigue and injury.

Losing a a 4/5 late in the season is harder to replace than a small in the NBA. The Suns were even able to find Cam Payne prior to the Orlando bubble.

I'd like to see the Suns add a big man on a two-way contract if they are going to play the waiting game to fill the final roster spot.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd like to see the Suns add a big man on a two-way contract if they are going to play the waiting game to fill the final roster spot.

I'm not in any rush to fill the last two way spot. To me, you use that on a player you know isn't ready and I think it's far more important to add someone that's ready right now for minutes.

Until we get our own minor league team again, I think the 2 way is mostly a waste for us. We can't keep them up all the time but we can't control what he's being taught or how he's being developed when he's not with us. It's not conducive to player development and I believe the players know it's a less than ideal situation for them so we're unlikely to attract legitimate prospects.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not in any rush to fill the last two way spot. To me, you use that on a player you know isn't ready and I think it's far more important to add someone that's ready right now for minutes.

Until we get our own minor league team again, I think the 2 way is mostly a waste for us. We can't keep them up all the time but we can't control what he's being taught or how he's being developed when he's not with us. It's not conducive to player development and I believe the players know it's a less than ideal situation for them so we're unlikely to attract legitimate prospects.

The only reason you get a 2-way without an affiliate is if you think it could be someone that you want to keep the rights for. How many of those kinds of players are out there right now? Not many I suspect.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not in any rush to fill the last two way spot. To me, you use that on a player you know isn't ready and I think it's far more important to add someone that's ready right now for minutes.

Until we get our own minor league team again, I think the 2 way is mostly a waste for us. We can't keep them up all the time but we can't control what he's being taught or how he's being developed when he's not with us. It's not conducive to player development and I believe the players know it's a less than ideal situation for them so we're unlikely to attract legitimate prospects.

The way the Suns have used the two-way spot this season is to add a veteran that could play if necessary like Hutchinson. They could do the same with the other two way spot at the 4/5 position. It's not like there is a big man convenience market down the street late in the season.

 

[Chaplin]

The way the Suns have used the two-way spot this season is to add a veteran that could play if necessary like Hutchinson. They could do the same with the other two way spot at the 4/5 position. It's not like there is a big man convenience market down the street late in the season.

There isn't one right now either. A 2-Way isn't going to be too appetizing to a guy that wants minutes. And the one that would take it won't get any time on the team, so there is no reason to get someone in at that spot if it isn't someone the Suns think long term can be a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Hoop Head]

Jalen Smith deserves more minutes than anyone we could potentially add on a two-way contract. I don't care how ready anyone thinks he is. Anyone who will sign a two-way will have lots of warts. I'd rather stick with what can benefit it us most and that's Jalen.

 

[1Sun]

Jalen Smith deserves more minutes than anyone we could potentially add on a two-way contract. I don't care how ready anyone thinks he is. Anyone who will sign a two-way will have lots of warts. I'd rather stick with what can benefit it us most and that's Jalen.

The problem there is that Jalen himself would be on a two-way deal (that's his current level of play, and that's being generous), but for the fact that he was grossly overdrafted (and remember I was one of the few here that defended the pick...I did not expect him to be this bad).

 

[Hoop Head]

The problem there is that Jalen himself would be on a two-way deal (that's his current level of play, and that's being generous), but for the fact that he was grossly overdrafted (and remember I was one of the few here that defended the pick...I did not expect him to be this bad).

Regardless of his skill level and what you think of him the point still stands since he's on a guaranteed deal for next season, with options for 2 more years after that, it's better to play him and try to develop him than a two-way player. We need to see what he can do and if anyone deserves fringe development minutes it's Jalen vs someone we may be able to sign with a two-way deal.

 

[Muggz]

I'm starting to see Stix as a project. If we keep him, playing with DA and Javale could only help. Do we have that kind of time tho?
I see glimmers of hope but he's VERY awkward and doesn't quite have control of his body yet. It's hard for me to watch him play, I know people on the forum are behind the kid no matter what so ill shut up bout him.

If the only option is a 2 way PF then I just assume wait till we can deal for someone later in the season. Nothing in that market is going to be better than the Jae/Cam combo we have now. Who knows maybe we see DA at the 4(if he stays ), now that we have Javale.

 

[1Sun]

Regardless of his skill level and what you think of him the point still stands since he's on a guaranteed deal for next season, with options for 2 more years after that, it's better to play him and try to develop him than a two-way player. We need to see what he can do and if anyone deserves fringe development minutes it's Jalen vs someone we may be able to sign with a two-way deal.

We have a two-year window tops to try for a championship. We don't have the luxury to develop someone like Jalen Smith right now.

 

[Phrazbit]

I am not remotely worried about our depth. An injury to Paul, Booker or Ayton would obviously change the trajectory of our season, there was nothing available at any point to change that. The same can be said for the top 3 players on any contender.

I'd like another rotation big, but with our roster it is a luxury, not a necessity.

The only part of the off season that really bums me out is adding Elfrid Payton, who I think is a dumpster fire.

 

[Mainstreet]

Jalen Smith deserves more minutes than anyone we could potentially add on a two-way contract. I don't care how ready anyone thinks he is. Anyone who will sign a two-way will have lots of warts. I'd rather stick with what can benefit it us most and that's Jalen.

Jalen Smith deserves more playing time than anyone than the Suns are likely to acquire on a two way contract but that's not the point.

It's not either-or.

The point is how the Suns can add veteran depth while keeping a roster spot open for potential buyouts and waived players later in the season.

The Lakers are adding Sekou Doumbouya on a two-way contract. That's a smart move with minimal investment, not only now but the future as well. If he doesn't play or the Lakers don't like what they see they can waive him next season.

The Suns did the same thing with Chandler Hutchinson and no one complained.

It's called using available options.

 

[Chaplin]

Jalen Smith deserves more playing time than anyone than the Suns are likely to acquire on a two way contract but that's not the point.

It's not either-or.

The point is how the Suns can add veteran depth while keeping a roster spot open for potential buyouts and waived players later in the season.

The Lakers are adding Sekou Doumbouya on a two-way contract. That's a smart move with minimal investment, not only now but the future as well. If he doesn't play or the Lakers don't like what they see they can waive him next season.

The Suns did the same thing with Chandler Hutchinson and no one complained.

It's called using available options.

What you think is a "viable" option as the 17th man is probably not the same as what James Jones thinks it is.

 

[Mainstreet]

James Jones liked Cam Payne who he brought up from the G-League and he turned into a rotation player.

 

[AzStevenCal]

James Jones liked Cam Payne who he brought up from the G-League and he turned into a rotation player.

Which suggests he might have a fair eye for talent and potential plus a desire to improve the team when it's possible.

 

[Chaplin]

James Jones liked Cam Payne who he brought up from the G-League and he turned into a rotation player.

That kinda strengthens my point.