Hardaway activated

[Joe Mama]

I just heard on KDUS that Penny Hardaway has been activated for tonight's game. I was a little bit scared because on another message board I read that Hardaway would not return until next week's game against Golden State.

Joe Mama

 

[BALLERMANIA2]

az central has it listed that he's back and activated.

 

[SirStefan32]

Nice to see Penny back.

 

[Yuma]

Get big Jake back soon!

How would you like to be the top seed and face a team like this in the first round?

Marbury, Penny, Amare, Big Jake, Marion

with a bench of Googs, Joe Johnson, Jacobson, Williams, Outlaw, Brown, and little jake.

Not real intimidating, but a lot tougher than you want in the tomato can first round.

 

[fordronken]

The west is tough. There are no gimmies.

 

[SirStefan32]

Re: Get big Jake back soon!

Originally posted by Yuma
How would you like to be the top seed and face a team like this in the first round?

Marbury, Penny, Amare, Big Jake, Marion

with a bench of Googs, Joe Johnson, Jacobson, Williams, Outlaw, Brown, and little jake.

If I am Dallas or Sacramento, I look at the starting five, and I am a little intimidated, but then I look at their bench, compared them to my bench, and I am feeling pretty good.

Having said that, I don't think anybody wants to play Phoenix in the first round. If they can just add some depth to the bench this offseason, the'll be a legitimate candidate for the NBA championship.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

The bench isn't that bad. Theres a very good forward rotation with amare, marion, outlaw, and googs. The guard rotation is ok but after Marbury and Penny there really sn't anyone who makes a big contribution. If JJ and CJ can bring energy off the bench then they'd be a lot better off. The center rotation sucks. Big Jake is injured and not very affective anyway. Lil Jake brings in offensive rebounding and thats about it. Scott Williams is getting older and wasn't that great to begin with and Outlaw is undersized most of the time.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by PhiLLmattiC
The bench isn't that bad. Theres a very good forward rotation with amare, marion, outlaw, and googs. The guard rotation is ok but after Marbury and Penny there really sn't anyone who makes a big contribution. If JJ and CJ can bring energy off the bench then they'd be a lot better off. The center rotation sucks. Big Jake is injured and not very affective anyway. Lil Jake brings in offensive rebounding and thats about it. Scott Williams is getting older and wasn't that great to begin with and Outlaw is undersized most of the time.

But how many teams in the league have a better center rotation? 4? 5?

 

[slinslin]

Almost every team has a better center rotation than us. Right now we don't even have a real center on the roster because Williams, Voshkul, Outlaw are all a little bit undersized to bang. And Williams who is the most physical is not durable enough.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Almost every team has a better center rotation than us. Right now we don't even have a real center on the roster because Williams, Voshkul, Outlaw are all a little bit undersized to bang. And Williams who is the most physical is not durable enough.

Please name them.

 

[Joe Mama]

Remember also that a deep bench is really more important during the regular season when you're trying to keep your best players (starters) from getting worn down. In the playoffs those guys should be on the floor as much as possible.

The Suns probably have one of the weakest 4-5 rotations of the Western Conference playoff contending teams. Amare Stoudemire is going to be a great player, but he is still a rookie with a long ways to go. Sacramento, Dallas, San Antonio, Portland, Minnesota, and arguably Utah all have better starting power forwards. As far as center is concerned you can take away Utah and add the Lakers and Warriors to that list of teams that are stronger at that position.

San Antonio and Portland would probably hate to face the Suns in the first round, but it would be much better than facing the Lakers.

Joe Mama

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Please name them.

It's tough to talk about center rotations because there are many players who are PF's but play center, move from 4 to 5 during the game, etc, so I am going to talk about a rotation involving both 4 and 5 positions.

The Suns have Amare Stoudemire, already one of the best low post scorers, probably the most athletic PF, but as Joe pointed out, still just a rookie. There is Tom Googliota, who is a wild card. When he hits open jumpers from the perimetar, it is easier for Amare to operate in the low post. Then there is Bo Outlaw, a nice role player who brings energy, but nothing spectacular.
There is Jake Tsakalidis, who from time to time shows great potential, and nobody can argue that his wide body is very valuable on defense. Voskhul is a nice player to give starting center some rest, play some D, grab some boards, etc. Scott Williams is another wild card- he is a very good player who complements Amare well. He could be very important when playoffs come. This rotation is not bad, but it is not very good either.

Lakers- O'Neal. They have nobody else inside, but Shaq is the most dominant player in the low post. I do think however that Jake's wide body and Scott's jumpers would be relatively effective against him.

Kings- Vlade, Webber, Keon, Pollard, easily the best big men rotation in the league.

San Antonio- Well, Duncan is the MVP, Admiral can still play, Malic is a very good role player (somewhat undersized though), and you can never forget about Kevin Willis- an old short-armed guy can still play.

Blazers- Davis, Wallace, Randolph, and Sabonis. They are saving Arvydas for playoffs, and these guys can be dangerous.

Timberwoves- Garnett and Joe Smith are definitely better than our PF's and Rasho is better than our centers.

Houston- we won't have to worry abou them since either Houston or Phoenix is not making the playoffs, but their big men rotation is not bad. Yao, Cato, Taylor, Griffin. I am not going to say that they are better than the Suns, but they are a decent PF/C rotation.

Warriors also have a better Center rotation, but I think Amare would dominate their PF's, but nonetheless, their C's are better.

Indiana- Jermaine and Brad, the best tag team in the east.


That's eight team from top of mu head, there are probably some others.


Edit:

Add Clippers to the list also. Brand, Kandiman, Rooks, and the two rooks, Willcox and Ely.

 

[hcsilla]

Also ATL and MEM have better PF/C rotations than Suns'.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Also ATL and MEM have better PF/C rotations than Suns'.

Right, that's 11 teams already. One could probably make a good argument for Dallas and New Jersey also. (Dirk/ Raef/ Shawn, and Deke/K-Mart)

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Good to see Penny back

At the start of the season, I didn't understand Hardaway's value to the team...

By midseason, I thought he was crucial....

Then he got injured, and his value fully sunk in....

Welcome back Penny, you are free from criticism from me, for quite awhile at least.

 

[slinslin]

Atlanta- Theo Ratliff/Nazr Mohammed
Chicago- Tyson Chandler/Eddy Curry/Corie Blount
Cleveland- Zyrdunas Ilgauskas/Chris Mihm/Desagana Diop
Dallas- Raef Lafrentz/Shawn Bradley
Denver- Nene Hilario/Marcus Camby
Detroit- Ben Wallace/Mehmet Okur/Zjelko Rebraca
Golden State- Eric Dampier/Adonal Foyle
Houston- Yao Ming/Kelvin Cato
Indiana- Brad Miller/Jeff Foster/(Jermaine O'Neal)
Clippers- Michael Olowankandi/Sean Rooks/Whang Zhi Zhi
Lakers- Shaq
Memphis- Lorenzen Wright/Stromile Swift
Miami- Brian Grant/Vladimir Stepania
Minnesota- Radoslav Nesterovic/Mark Jackson
New Orleans- Jamaal Magloire/Robert Traylor
New Jersey- Dikembe Mutombo/ Jason Collins/Aaron Williams
Portland- Dale Davis/Arvydas Sabonis
Sacramento- Vlade Divac/Keon Clark
San Antonio- David Robinson/(Tim Duncan)
Seattle- Elden Campbell/ Predrag Drobnjak/Jerome James/Calvin Booth/ Vladimir Potapenko
Utah- Greg Ostertag/Jaron Collins/Curtis Borchardt
Washington- Brendan Haywood/Jahidi White
Toronto- Antonio Davis/Jelani McCoy




Boston, Milwaukee, New York,Orlando, Philly (without ToddMac) are the only ones who I would say have a worse or as bad center rotation as Jake Tsakalidis/Jake Voshkul/Scott Williams.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin


Boston, Milwaukee, New York,Orlando, Philly (without ToddMac) are the only ones who I would say have a worse or as bad center rotation as Jake Tsakalidis/Jake Voshkul/Scott Williams.

Boston
Milwaukee
New York
Orlando
Philly

Seattle
Utah
Toronto
Portland
LA Clippers
Atlanta

All arguably can be considered as "bad" as we are. Your problem is that you look at individuals, when you ignore rotations as a whole. Big Jake, Little Jake and Scottie are usually better as a unit, even though Toronto, for example, has Antonio Davis, who is arguably better than our guys, yet Jelani McCoy doesn't make up for it.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Also ATL and MEM have better PF/C rotations than Suns'.

Memphis maybe, but Atlanta? Come on. Ratliff ain't THAT good, and Mohammed is a has-been, a one year wonder.

 

[slinslin]

Please Olowakandi might not be a star but he is much better than anything the Suns have in the middle.

Same for Sabonis and the two Davis, our center rotation is not even in the same ballpark as the Clippers, Blazers, Hawks, Raptors or Sonics. Utah might have an almost as bad rotation but Ostertag is always giving the Suns some trouble.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Please Olowakandi might not be a star but he is much better than anything the Suns have in the middle.

Same for Sabonis and the two Davis, our center rotation is not even in the same ballpark as the Clippers, Blazers, Hawks, Raptors or Sonics. Utah might have an almost as bad rotation but Ostertag is always giving the Suns some trouble.

hahahahahahaha You're not serious, are you?

Oh. You are. Sorry about that.

You give Sabonis too much credit. Did you even see him last night? The guy can barely move.

Ostertag always gives us problems...

Olowokandi is better than the three we got, but taken as a UNIT (that's right a UNIT), the Clippers are arguably equal to us. Sean Rooks is no better than any of our centers.

Again, two things. One, I was talking about a UNIT--you are not, which is against what this thread is about. And two, same ballpark--I can't believe you disputing that. Well, maybe I can.

EDIT: Look, I'm not saying we have this great center rotation. What I AM saying is that you are overestimating the rotations of most of the teams in the league.

 

[elindholm]

Same for Sabonis and the two Davis, our center rotation is not even in the same ballpark as the Clippers, Blazers, Hawks, Raptors or Sonics.

I agree with you on the Blazers. In my opinion, Sabonis's problem isn't that he can't move -- he's still extremely effective -- but that his minutes have to be so limited. Even so, Davis plus Sabonis plus Wallace (in a pinch) is a lot better than what the Suns have.

The Clippers? I used to believe in Olowokandi, but now I don't. I guess he's better than Tsakalidis, but not much. He scores more, but his offense is so inefficient that the Clippers are better off when he's out of the lineup. And I don't think Rooks is any better than Williams or Voskuhl.

The Sonics' rotation is better only as long as Campbell is playing. Once he's gone or hurt, they're in the same situation as Phoenix.

Antonio Davis is a good player, but he gets away with playing center only because the Raptors are in the East. If the Suns were in the East they could play Stoudemire at center for 48 minutes a game and he would probably be an All-Star.

Nazr Mohammed is terrible, and Ratliff isn't the same since his injuries. I'd give the Hawks' rotation a small edge, but only a small one.

Ostertag is a joke. He gives the Suns fits because the Suns double team way too much and leave people open right at the rim. If the Suns had to play against Tsakalidis, or Voskuhl, or Williams (and the other team had good passers on it, as Utah does), the same thing would happen.

The Suns' center rotation is below average, but I don't think it's in the bottom five.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm

I agree with you on the Blazers. In my opinion, Sabonis's problem isn't that he can't move -- he's still extremely effective -- but that his minutes have to be so limited. Even so, Davis plus Sabonis plus Wallace (in a pinch) is a lot better than what the Suns have.

I will DEFINITELY concede that if you add Rasheed into the center mix with Portland, then, yes, Portland is much better than us. But I was ultimately looking at traditional positions.

Also, as a side note, Campbell has looked horrible this season--part of the reason why he was traded in the first place. Magloire FAR outplayed Campbell, and Magloire is no All-Star, I think we can agree...

 

[SirStefan32]

Come on, Sabonis and Davis are definitely better than Tsakalidis, Voskhul and Williams.

Olawokandi, Rooks and Ely are also better than the Suns centers eventhough the difference is not huge.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin


Memphis maybe, but Atlanta? Come on. Ratliff ain't THAT good, and Mohammed is a has-been, a one year wonder.

I didn't say that Ratliff is THAT good,I said only that he is definitely better than Tsakalidis.
Although Mohammed has a terrible year he is still better than any of our backup C's.

 

[SirStefan32]

It's kinda sad how bad centers are in this league right now. Good old Hakeem/Shaq/Patric/DR days.