Week 6 2022: Heroes and Goats

FB94

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Kliff is the hand picked coach to unlock the best out of our QB. Our QB ain't getting better, and seems to be getting worse!

Kliff showed last year that he has taken the team as far as he can go - Kyler desperately needs a leader, and someone who will push him. Kliff ain't it.
Kliff is the older frat buddy to me, we need an Uncle Bruce type that likes you as a person but has the bark to challenge you. I would love for KK on camera in a game go rip into Murray and see what happens.
 

82CardsGrad

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I should have been more clear. I'm done with Kingsbury and think he should be fired at the end of the season if things don't turn around in a big way.

I just disagree with the assertion that "It's all on Kingsbury." He owns the ultimate responsibility as the head guy, but I don't think it you replace him with a replacement-level head coach like Kevin Stefanski you're going to get better results.
Got it... and as you know, large-scale and comprehensive failure is never the result of a single person. I mean, were the Cards' failures during the Wilks season all about Wilks? Of course not...

That said, I do think the vast majority of the blame rests with Kliffy... I am fairly certain that some other, more seasoned NFL coach would've been able to figure stuff out with Kyler. Kliffy came into the league - totally unwarranted of course - heralded as some boy-wonder... the "new-age" offensive genius. And I can't stop laughing out loud about all that hype. Meanwhile, all of the Kliffy supporters somehow forgot, or perhaps never even realized, what a NFL Head Coach is really all about. Apparently, Mikey and Keim fall into that bucket too.

IMHO, Kyler will never be a consistent winner in the NFL, period. But, I do think if he was playing for a more seasoned NFL coach, he'd be under center a bunch more and running an offense that puts him in more situations where he could succeed more often.

EDIT: I'll also add that, with a more seasoned NFL Coach, there might've been a chance that the Cards would not have caved-in and given Kyler all that money. That might be a stretch...however, I do believe that due to Kliffy's "too cool for school" demeanor and his desire to be "one of the guys," he has zero ability to take tough positions with players, especially a #1 overall pick and "franchise QB."
 
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kerouac9

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Goat:

Michael Bidwill for wasting his money and extending Kliff and Kiem when there was zero need to at the time.

There should be a 30 for 30 on this. That's the Cardinals Folklore episode we need and deserve.

Got it... and as you know, large-scale and comprehensive failure is never the result of a single person. I mean, were the Cards' failures during the Wilks season all about Wilks? Of course not...

That said, I do think the vast majority of the blame rests with Kliffy... I am fairly certain that some other, more seasoned NFL coach would've been able to figure stuff out with Kyler. Kliffy came into the league - totally unwarranted of course - heralded as some boy-wonder... the "new-age" offensive genius. And I can't stop laughing out loud about all that hype. Meanwhile, all of the Kliffy supporters somehow forgot, or perhaps never even realized, what a NFL Head Coach is really all about. Apparently, Mikey and Keim fall into that bucket too.

IMHO, Kyler will never be a consistent winner in the NFL, period. But, I do think if he was playing for a more seasoned NFL coach, he'd be under center a bunch more and running an offense that puts him in more situations where he could succeed more often.

EDIT: I'll also add that, with a more seasoned NFL Coach, there might've been a chance that the Cards would not have caved-in and given Kyler all that money. That might be a stretch...however, I do believe that due to Kliffy's "too cool for school" demeanor and his desire to be "one of the guys," he has zero ability to take tough positions with players, especially a #1 overall pick and "franchise QB."
I mean, Wilks paid for Keim's sins. Kingsbury will do the same. I think Kingsbury deserves more blame for the handling of Kyler; I also think that Kyler is going to show that he's an exceptionally difficult player to coach in the next couple years.

You don't say "no" when someone offers you an NFL head coaching gig; especially when you just got fired as HC from a second-tier college program. Kingsbury didn't promote himself as a new-age offensive genius. He hardly promotes himself at all. That's actually one of the things I like about him. The Cards put in their dang press release when he was hired that he was friends with Sean McVay. Keim and Michael are exceedingly bad at everything but failing.

We can get a more seasoned NFL coach, but I don't know how we end up with a seasoned, experienced, successful NFL coach. Like, would Keim be able to recruit and hire a head coach of Dennis Green's quality when we hired Green?

Does Vance Joseph fit that bill for you? I hope he does, because if the Cards play .500 football after Kliff gets fired, Michael likely extends Joseph and the defensive staff and pushes the offensive guys (many of whom just got promotions) onto Vance.
 

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I think two things can be true from looking at this team:

1. Kyler Murray can and will likely play better in the future. He has obvious NFL talent and can be at least a QB that can challenge for playoff spots most years.

This only happens if Kyler changes a lot and starts putting the work in. Including in the offseason.
 

BritCard

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There should be a 30 for 30 on this. That's the Cardinals Folklore episode we need and deserve.


I mean, Wilks paid for Keim's sins. Kingsbury will do the same. I think Kingsbury deserves more blame for the handling of Kyler; I also think that Kyler is going to show that he's an exceptionally difficult player to coach in the next couple years.

You don't say "no" when someone offers you an NFL head coaching gig; especially when you just got fired as HC from a second-tier college program. Kingsbury didn't promote himself as a new-age offensive genius. He hardly promotes himself at all. That's actually one of the things I like about him. The Cards put in their dang press release when he was hired that he was friends with Sean McVay. Keim and Michael are exceedingly bad at everything but failing.

We can get a more seasoned NFL coach, but I don't know how we end up with a seasoned, experienced, successful NFL coach. Like, would Keim be able to recruit and hire a head coach of Dennis Green's quality when we hired Green?

Does Vance Joseph fit that bill for you? I hope he does, because if the Cards play .500 football after Kliff gets fired, Michael likely extends Joseph and the defensive staff and pushes the offensive guys (many of whom just got promotions) onto Vance.

I don't want it, but I'd have to say Vance has earned a shot. But he'd be foolish to take it here.
 

Russ Smith

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I would say you have to add Harlow as a goat. I was watching the first half today on Streaming Sunday Ticket and it's unreal how many of the plays he blew up. The only thing he didn't do wrong was a snap. he had a play where he tripped eno on a draw play and if you watch it was going to be a good gainer too. He had a play that was probably a QB draw where if he gets even a piece of the big fat slow run stuffing DT Kyler has good yardage, instead he whiffs and the guy drops Kyler right at the LOS if not a loss. There's 2 plays where they run a stunt and Harlow takes nobody and there's an unblocked free runner coming right up the gut. He's destroying the entire middle of the line because the guards are constantly worrying about helping him.
 

Shane

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Moore took all the snaps from Dortch and from the point our offense has been putrid
Don't know if it's a conceidence or what
Dortch was the most dynamic receiver, didn't make splash plays, but he moved all over the field getting open frequently ,was the most reliable target to move the chains
Ummmm our offense was putrid with Dortch as well and Rondale had a fine game last week. If it wasn’t for the two drops he would have this week as well. Saying that’s the only reason the offense was putrid is pure silliness. (No I’m not excusing the drops)
 

Russ Smith

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Ummmm our offense was putrid with Dortch as well and Rondale had a fine game last week. If it wasn’t for the two drops he would have this week as well. Saying that’s the only reason the offense was putrid is pure silliness. (No I’m not excusing the drops)

To me it's a drop and a half the first one was a bad throw, catchable but a bad throw.

With all the backwards nonsense one thing is Rondale has to be smarter, twice he tried to cut back across the field behind the line and lost even more yardage including the one player where Kyler looked at a guy to block him and then said screw this and didn't block him because he was presumably wondering WTF Rondale was doing.

But again the main problem IMO on those plays is that Kliff keeps calling them. He uses Rondale like a good 3 point shooter where you just stick him in the corner and keep getting surprised that teams take that pass to the corner away.
 

82CardsGrad

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There should be a 30 for 30 on this. That's the Cardinals Folklore episode we need and deserve.


I mean, Wilks paid for Keim's sins. Kingsbury will do the same. I think Kingsbury deserves more blame for the handling of Kyler; I also think that Kyler is going to show that he's an exceptionally difficult player to coach in the next couple years.

You don't say "no" when someone offers you an NFL head coaching gig; especially when you just got fired as HC from a second-tier college program. Kingsbury didn't promote himself as a new-age offensive genius. He hardly promotes himself at all. That's actually one of the things I like about him. The Cards put in their dang press release when he was hired that he was friends with Sean McVay. Keim and Michael are exceedingly bad at everything but failing.

We can get a more seasoned NFL coach, but I don't know how we end up with a seasoned, experienced, successful NFL coach. Like, would Keim be able to recruit and hire a head coach of Dennis Green's quality when we hired Green?

Does Vance Joseph fit that bill for you? I hope he does, because if the Cards play .500 football after Kliff gets fired, Michael likely extends Joseph and the defensive staff and pushes the offensive guys (many of whom just got promotions) onto Vance.

Yea... I can't see how this team attracts a "proven" "successful" NFL coach. IMHO, we should be looking at guys who have NFL experience, not necessarily as a Head Coach, but more likely as a coordinator or assistance head coach..
As for Vance... I like him. And the job he's doing this year is quite remarkable considering who this team is running out on the field each week. I'm not at all sold on him being a Head Coach though and I wouldn't be thrilled if the Cards fired Kliffy and went the easy route by simply promoting Vance...
 

Dr. Jones

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I think Moore's been fine the last two weeks - even showed a couple of flashes. He can only run the routes that are called for him.

If you aren't going after Keim, I would say the entire OL should be the third goat with Kyler - Kliff.

Moore took all the snaps from Dortch and from the point our offense has been putrid
Don't know if it's a conceidence or what
Dortch was the most dynamic receiver, didn't make splash plays, but he moved all over the field getting open frequently ,was the most reliable target to move the chains

Again that's not on him, that's the coaching. I agree that Dortch has earned the playing time.

Didn't Moore have two egregious drops yesterday? The first on 4th down and the second on an out to the right? Both were insane drive killers IIRC.



This offense man.

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Antonio Hamilton, CB - Greased Lightning played 19 snaps and helped a defensive secondary hold DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett to 4 receptions for 51 yards COMBINED. It was good to see him jawing with Metcalf late in the game. The secondary brings the attitude to this team and is the only group with earned swagger.
LOL! You went there!
 
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I think two things can be true from looking at this team:

1. Kyler Murray can and will likely play better in the future. He has obvious NFL talent and can be at least a QB that can challenge for playoff spots most years.

2. Kliff is a smart offensive mind. He designs a lot of interesting plays that challenge defenses.

This next point can also be true: Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury aren't a good match for each other. I think Kyler needs to have a coach that can challenge him. Stop making the offense all about making Kyler comfortable. Maybe that concept is actually holding Murray back. And I think from every bit of information we have seen, it's 100% hard to continue to argue that Murray is putting in the EXTRA work needed to be successful. I think Murray DOES put in work, but to be a highly successful QB in the NFL, you have to put in more work than any other player.

Bro did you see the steaming pile of crap at QB? Last I checked, Kliff took zero snaps yesterday.
Are you trying to work both sides of the argument? :grabs:
 

FB94

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I don't want it, but I'd have to say Vance has earned a shot. But he'd be foolish to take it here.
IDK, it’s one of 32 and it’s not like he is Sean Payton or other top flight coaches who can pick where they go. I would take it cuz you may never get another one
 

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