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Elite leaders like Ray Lewis and Tom Brady make a huge difference.

The Cardinals have some good leaders, like J.J. Watt, but none are on the elite level. Even Larry Fitzgerald seemed like a 'lead by example guy'. I know they have emphasized drafting team captains in recent years but I think Kyler's negative traits negate a lot of that.

You look at guys like Mahomes and Allen and you can see their team mates would go to war for them. They own that offense.

I just don't get that sense with Kyler. I wonder if most would help him move furniture.
 

football karma

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btw: not sure where to post this, so here goes:

I am 100% convinced (money back guarantee on this) that Kyler is dealing with a throwing shoulder or arm injury (again, not serious enough for the injury report, but enough to impact his arm). Its an explanation for how a guy spent 3 years as one of the best deep throwers in the NFL, and this year cant get anything done.

Did anyone else notice a couple times on injury time outs, he was throwing a football during the break? it was like he didn't want his arm to tighten up.
 

DVontel

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btw: not sure where to post this, so here goes:

I am 100% convinced (money back guarantee on this) that Kyler is dealing with a throwing shoulder or arm injury (again, not serious enough for the injury report, but enough to impact his arm). Its an explanation for how a guy spent 3 years as one of the best deep throwers in the NFL, and this year cant get anything done.

Did anyone else notice a couple times on injury time outs, he was throwing a football during the break? it was like he didn't want his arm to tighten up.
I believe it’s less trust in the interior than anything. Not having Hudson & Pugh in there is shattering his confidence imo.
 

Shane

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btw: not sure where to post this, so here goes:

I am 100% convinced (money back guarantee on this) that Kyler is dealing with a throwing shoulder or arm injury (again, not serious enough for the injury report, but enough to impact his arm). Its an explanation for how a guy spent 3 years as one of the best deep throwers in the NFL, and this year cant get anything done.

Did anyone else notice a couple times on injury time outs, he was throwing a football during the break? it was like he didn't want his arm to tighten up.

Not buying it…. He’s just become gun shy and his mechanics are awful. If he even had an inkling he’d be on the injury report. No need to hide when he’s been paid.
 
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football karma

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its tough to blame RBs when the team is starting an o-line that is 60% backups, but:

Eno and Darrell Williams in current form get you only whats blocked, and maybe not even that.

combined 14 for 30 yards, 2.1 a pop. Against a Viking D that played a lot of 6 man boxes and prior to yesterday, was below average against the run.

Kliff has issues, Kyler has issues -- but its hard to be a consistent, efficient offense when you hand it off and its 2nd and 8.
 
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kerouac9

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Agree 100%. You can specifically point out this game and the Seahawks game as two games the Cardinals probably should have won without a mountain of mistakes.

This is a bad good team. There are enough players to win with, but the current construction just isn't working.

I gave Kliff the benefit of the doubt for awhile, but his inability to push this team over the hump when they are close and his inability to improve Kyler's play are his undoing. This is a team that I would bet that if you put a good NFL coach in charge, they would quickly turn things around. Kliff is just a solid offensive coordinator filling the role of head coach.

This is semantics, but I think the Giants are a Bad Good Team. Like they're way outperforming their personnel but they're beating other good teams. The Titans and the Ravens are also Bad Good Teams. The whole is greater than the sum of their parts.

A Good Bad Team can beat the dregs of the NFL like the Raiders and Panthers and can be feisty against mid-tier teams but are just outclassed by good teams. It was weird yesterday morning when I was watching with my whole family, we were down by 3 and everyone thought the game was over except whether my dad's Over-Vikes +3.5 parlay would come in.

It turns out they were right, but what a dispiriting situation to be in.

Like, I think we'd be the Commies and the Packers right now. I don't think we have a chance this week against Seattle.
 
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kerouac9

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its tough to blame RBs when the team is starting an o-line that is 60% backups, but:

Eno and Darrell Williams in current form get you only whats blocked, and maybe not even that.

combined 14 for 30 yards, 2.1 a pop. Against a Viking D that played a lot of 6 man boxes and prior to yesterday, was below average against the run.

Kliff has issues, Kyler has issues -- but its hard to be a consistent, efficient offense when you hand it off and its 2nd and 8.
Yeah. The problem is that if it were second and 6 Kyler would yeet it up the sideline 80% of the time anyway.
 

Dayman

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its tough to blame RBs when the team is starting an o-line that is 60% backups, but:

Eno and Darrell Williams in current form get you only whats blocked, and maybe not even that.

combined 14 for 30 yards, 2.1 a pop. Against a Viking D that played a lot of 6 man boxes and prior to yesterday, was below average against the run.

Kliff has issues, Kyler has issues -- but its hard to be a consistent, efficient offense when you hand it off and its 2nd and 8.
Players who lead their teams in passing yards and rushing yards:

Lamar Jackson
Kyler Murray

Kyler barely has any designed runs, either.

On a related note, we are paying James Conner as a top 10 RB this year. #keimtime
 

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Agree 100%. You can specifically point out this game and the Seahawks game as two games the Cardinals probably should have won without a mountain of mistakes.

This is a bad good team. There are enough players to win with, but the current construction just isn't working.

I gave Kliff the benefit of the doubt for awhile, but his inability to push this team over the hump when they are close and his inability to improve Kyler's play are his undoing. This is a team that I would bet that if you put a good NFL coach in charge, they would quickly turn things around. Kliff is just a solid offensive coordinator filling the role of head coach.

The flip side of that is Cousins had a terrible game and if he'd been even average for him we'd have been down 2-3 scores. Multiple bad throws in this game where guys were open and he missed them. He had the play where he ran left had an easy first down and then threw the ball, high and they had to punt.

So yes we could have and likely should have won this game. But we also could have easily been blown out. In fact had their OC ran the ball more, 25 carries between Cook and Mattison, 151 yards and 2 TD's and multiple big runs between them, we probably lose by much more.
 

Russ Smith

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btw: not sure where to post this, so here goes:

I am 100% convinced (money back guarantee on this) that Kyler is dealing with a throwing shoulder or arm injury (again, not serious enough for the injury report, but enough to impact his arm). Its an explanation for how a guy spent 3 years as one of the best deep throwers in the NFL, and this year cant get anything done.

Did anyone else notice a couple times on injury time outs, he was throwing a football during the break? it was like he didn't want his arm to tighten up.

If you mean the big deep shot that got picked that was underthrown because he got hit as he was throwing it so he couldn't follow all the way through. In fact the momentum of the guy who hit him tossed him like a rag doll.

just from the live shot I thought that's going to be way short I hope it's not picked because you could see the hit.

And he had a guy WIDE open in the left flat, I think it was Eno.
 

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I should add on the Kliff as goat part of this. Yet another game where I felt like Kyler had to run more and it had to be called runs. We could NOT run the ball with our RB's, the only success we had running the ball was Kyler or Rondale because they can make the first guy miss or because there's an element of surprise, the runs by the RB's are telegraphed. I think Kyler is partially to blame I think he way too often just defaults to handing the ball off when he should pull it and keep it but again that goes to why I think Kliff needs to call more runs.

Third game in a row the announcers literally said Kyler told them he WANTS to run more. And he had 6 runs and I think 4 in the first half and 2 in desperation time late in the game.
 

daves

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I am 100% convinced (money back guarantee on this) that Kyler is dealing with a throwing shoulder or arm injury (again, not serious enough for the injury report, but enough to impact his arm). Its an explanation for how a guy spent 3 years as one of the best deep throwers in the NFL, and this year cant get anything done.
Dunno about the arm. Maybe lingering Covid brain fog?

It is quite weird how much he's physically and mentally regressed from the first half of last season, and perhaps even moreso since missing most of the preseason with Covid.

...dave
 

football karma

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If you mean the big deep shot that got picked that was underthrown because he got hit as he was throwing it so he couldn't follow all the way through.
to be clear, a 100% Josh Allen underthrows that ball in similar circumstances -- so that one throw wasnt about Kylers arm

my theory was from a lack of deep accuracy all season long.
I believe Kyler has been dealing with a nagging arm issue from training camp, and that it is slowly getting better - i saw zip and accuracy on throws in the midrange we hadnt seen earlier in the year
 

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Anyone besides the Vikes Defensive Coordinator notice : left guard looks at Kyler,
pats the center, center bobs his head down then snaps the ball. Very predictable cadence for the Dline to time up.
Where's the coaching - the self scouting ??
 

Russ Smith

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to be clear, a 100% Josh Allen underthrows that ball in similar circumstances -- so that one throw wasnt about Kylers arm

my theory was from a lack of deep accuracy all season long.
I believe Kyler has been dealing with a nagging arm issue from training camp, and that it is slowly getting better - i saw zip and accuracy on throws in the midrange we hadnt seen earlier in the year

Could be I'm just talking about that one throw.

I think as others haev said he doesn't trust the interior of his OL, for good reason, so he isn't stepping into those deep shots as confidently as in past year and because of his size he really needs those legs and follow through to get that ball that far downfield
 

Russ Smith

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Anyone besides the Vikes Defensive Coordinator notice : left guard looks at Kyler,
pats the center, center bobs his head down then snaps the ball. Very predictable cadence for the Dline to time up.
Where's the coaching - the self scouting ??

That was driving me nuts in fact at least one of the snaps Ford wasn't even set he was turned to look at Kyler I think it was the one Price snapped early they showed it on replay.

I assume it's because they both started playing recently and are learning things but not sure.

Really bad game for the OL though after last week the left side was opening gaping holes, they didn't do that. I thought Josh Jones was pretty good but that was about it and even he gave up some pressures and missed a block on a sweep that got the play blown up
 

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Facts

Dortch is the leading Goat!! He catches that punt we win. We lost by 8. His fumble led to 7. If we trailed by 1. A Fg at the end wins
Plus him bringing it out on the KO a couple drives before, he didn't get to the 20, there was a hold. Sets up 1st and 10 on the 10 and then Kyler threw the INT. Just take a knee
 

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Elite leaders like Ray Lewis and Tom Brady make a huge difference.

The Cardinals have some good leaders, like J.J. Watt, but none are on the elite level. Even Larry Fitzgerald seemed like a 'lead by example guy'. I know they have emphasized drafting team captains in recent years but I think Kyler's negative traits negate a lot of that.
JJ Watt is an elite leader but he's only one guy
 
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