Week 14 2022: Heroes and Goats

kerouac9

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Pour one out for Kyler Murray. I've been a skeptic of him from the start — partly because I wanted Josh Rosen to succeed, partly because my in-laws are Sooners and I don't want them to be happy, and partly because I'm the kind of small-c conservative football fan who likes seeing cannon-armed pocket passers rifling the ball downfield on a frozen rope into tight windows. Despite being a huge fan of Michael Vick for longer than I should, Drew Bledsoe is still the prototype QB in my mind.

This isn't about me, though. This is about Kyler Murray, who isn't only going to be dealing with a significant rehab schedule, he's going to be dealing with a profound blow to his self-conception over the next few months and maybe years. Kyler's career to date has been basically unalloyed individual success. Even without the injury, this would have been his first year without any postseason laurels. There will be no Pro Bowl honors this year.

So, what happens? This team didn't trust Kyler to do his homework over the past three offseasons, and though we agree that three dopes sit atop the Arizona Cardinals' org chart, they have more information than we do. I have no doubt that Kyler will attach his rehab schedule with rare tenacity; I'm less sure that he'll consider shifting his mindset to come into game week (and not just game day) more prepared above the neck.

Carson Palmer went on IR with an injured knee on Nov 16, 2014. He returned the next season to start every game and compile over 4500 passing yards on the way to a 13-win season. Carson Palmer was 36 years old. All is not lost.

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James Conner, RB - New England's rush defense is actually good (10th in Rush DVOA to-date), and Conner averaged a respectable 5.6 YPC against them. Connor is still a below-average starting RB who can't be trusted to stay healthy, but he can be the second back on a good team (which he was last year).

Zach Allen, DL - Will Zach Allen look better in a Bears ($103.2 million in 2023 effective cap space) or Bengals ($38.5 million) uniform next season? Maybe the New York Giants ($46.0 million) will double-dip with him and Byron Murphy? Either way, he will have deserved every dollar for the amount of effort and development he's done here.

Cam Thomas, OLB - Thomas was the Johnny on the Spot who forced Mac Jones' lone interception of the night, and he continues to flash ability in games and switches. So, of course, he played the same amount of snaps as Trysten Hill and 14 fewer snaps than Markus Golden. This team makes me so angry sometimes.

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Isaiah Simmons, ILB - I was about as big a fan of Simmons as there was when we drafted him. I thought he was going to be the evolutionary version of Karlos Dansby. Then I see him getting caught looking into the backfield on the Hunter Henry 37 yard reception. In a lot of ways he's Murray's defensive counterpart -- incredible splash plays combined with an inability to do a lot of the easy stuff.

Josh Jones, OT - Well, at least for a week we're not going to have to hear people talk about how good Josh Jones is and maybe we should trade D.J. Humphries. If you think an offensive lineman is doing well during a game, the next step is to see how often he gets help from a linemate next to him or a TE or running back. Jones was left on an island this week and the results weren't pretty.

Marquise Brown, WR - Hollywood and Nuk are right next to each other in the DYAR rankings (44 and 45). In the meantime, Hollywood caught half of his eight targets and only two receptions resulted in first downs (plus one PI penalty drawn. For whatever Brown might offer in the primary WR role, he's not in that right now, and he's really struggling to make an impact.
 

SoonerLou

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Pour one out for Kyler Murray. I've been a skeptic of him from the start — partly because I wanted Josh Rosen to succeed, partly because my in-laws are Sooners and I don't want them to be happy, and partly because I'm the kind of small-c conservative football fan who likes seeing cannon-armed pocket passers rifling the ball downfield on a frozen rope into tight windows. Despite being a huge fan of Michael Vick for longer than I should, Drew Bledsoe is still the prototype QB in my mind.

This isn't about me, though. This is about Kyler Murray, who isn't only going to be dealing with a significant rehab schedule, he's going to be dealing with a profound blow to his self-conception over the next few months and maybe years. Kyler's career to date has been basically unalloyed individual success. Even without the injury, this would have been his first year without any postseason laurels. There will be no Pro Bowl honors this year.

So, what happens? This team didn't trust Kyler to do his homework over the past three offseasons, and though we agree that three dopes sit atop the Arizona Cardinals' org chart, they have more information than we do. I have no doubt that Kyler will attach his rehab schedule with rare tenacity; I'm less sure that he'll consider shifting his mindset to come into game week (and not just game day) more prepared above the neck.

Carson Palmer went on IR with an injured knee on Nov 16, 2014. He returned the next season to start every game and compile over 4500 passing yards on the way to a 13-win season. Carson Palmer was 36 years old. All is not lost.

You must be registered for see images attach
James Conner, RB - New England's rush defense is actually good (10th in Rush DVOA to-date), and Conner averaged a respectable 5.6 YPC against them. Connor is still a below-average starting RB who can't be trusted to stay healthy, but he can be the second back on a good team (which he was last year).

Zach Allen, DL - Will Zach Allen look better in a Bears ($103.2 million in 2023 effective cap space) or Bengals ($38.5 million) uniform next season? Maybe the New York Giants ($46.0 million) will double-dip with him and Byron Murphy? Either way, he will have deserved every dollar for the amount of effort and development he's done here.

Cam Thomas, OLB - Thomas was the Johnny on the Spot who forced Mac Jones' lone interception of the night, and he continues to flash ability in games and switches. So, of course, he played the same amount of snaps as Trysten Hill and 14 fewer snaps than Markus Golden. This team makes me so angry sometimes.

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Isaiah Simmons, ILB - I was about as big a fan of Simmons as there was when we drafted him. I thought he was going to be the evolutionary version of Karlos Dansby. Then I see him getting caught looking into the backfield on the Hunter Henry 37 yard reception. In a lot of ways he's Murray's defensive counterpart -- incredible splash plays combined with an inability to do a lot of the easy stuff.

Josh Jones, OT - Well, at least for a week we're not going to have to hear people talk about how good Josh Jones is and maybe we should trade D.J. Humphries. If you think an offensive lineman is doing well during a game, the next step is to see how often he gets help from a linemate next to him or a TE or running back. Jones was left on an island this week and the results weren't pretty.

Marquise Brown, WR - Hollywood and Nuk are right next to each other in the DYAR rankings (44 and 45). In the meantime, Hollywood caught half of his eight targets and only two receptions resulted in first downs (plus one PI penalty drawn. For whatever Brown might offer in the primary WR role, he's not in that right now, and he's really struggling to make an impact.

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No wonder we've been dicey over the years K9. Happy to meet the in laws whenever I'm in town though.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Pour one out for Kyler Murray. I've been a skeptic of him from the start — partly because I wanted Josh Rosen to succeed, partly because my in-laws are Sooners and I don't want them to be happy, and partly because I'm the kind of small-c conservative football fan who likes seeing cannon-armed pocket passers rifling the ball downfield on a frozen rope into tight windows. Despite being a huge fan of Michael Vick for longer than I should, Drew Bledsoe is still the prototype QB in my mind.

This isn't about me, though. This is about Kyler Murray, who isn't only going to be dealing with a significant rehab schedule, he's going to be dealing with a profound blow to his self-conception over the next few months and maybe years. Kyler's career to date has been basically unalloyed individual success. Even without the injury, this would have been his first year without any postseason laurels. There will be no Pro Bowl honors this year.

So, what happens? This team didn't trust Kyler to do his homework over the past three offseasons, and though we agree that three dopes sit atop the Arizona Cardinals' org chart, they have more information than we do. I have no doubt that Kyler will attach his rehab schedule with rare tenacity; I'm less sure that he'll consider shifting his mindset to come into game week (and not just game day) more prepared above the neck.

Carson Palmer went on IR with an injured knee on Nov 16, 2014. He returned the next season to start every game and compile over 4500 passing yards on the way to a 13-win season. Carson Palmer was 36 years old. All is not lost.

You must be registered for see images attach
James Conner, RB - New England's rush defense is actually good (10th in Rush DVOA to-date), and Conner averaged a respectable 5.6 YPC against them. Connor is still a below-average starting RB who can't be trusted to stay healthy, but he can be the second back on a good team (which he was last year).

Zach Allen, DL - Will Zach Allen look better in a Bears ($103.2 million in 2023 effective cap space) or Bengals ($38.5 million) uniform next season? Maybe the New York Giants ($46.0 million) will double-dip with him and Byron Murphy? Either way, he will have deserved every dollar for the amount of effort and development he's done here.

Cam Thomas, OLB - Thomas was the Johnny on the Spot who forced Mac Jones' lone interception of the night, and he continues to flash ability in games and switches. So, of course, he played the same amount of snaps as Trysten Hill and 14 fewer snaps than Markus Golden. This team makes me so angry sometimes.

You must be registered for see images attach

Isaiah Simmons, ILB - I was about as big a fan of Simmons as there was when we drafted him. I thought he was going to be the evolutionary version of Karlos Dansby. Then I see him getting caught looking into the backfield on the Hunter Henry 37 yard reception. In a lot of ways he's Murray's defensive counterpart -- incredible splash plays combined with an inability to do a lot of the easy stuff.

Josh Jones, OT - Well, at least for a week we're not going to have to hear people talk about how good Josh Jones is and maybe we should trade D.J. Humphries. If you think an offensive lineman is doing well during a game, the next step is to see how often he gets help from a linemate next to him or a TE or running back. Jones was left on an island this week and the results weren't pretty.

Marquise Brown, WR - Hollywood and Nuk are right next to each other in the DYAR rankings (44 and 45). In the meantime, Hollywood caught half of his eight targets and only two receptions resulted in first downs (plus one PI penalty drawn. For whatever Brown might offer in the primary WR role, he's not in that right now, and he's really struggling to make an impact.
That Isaiah play was zone and the safety was late rotating. That wasn't him getting caught looking in the backfield.
 

Krangodnzr

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Agree on all accounts, though I like Brown more than you do.

It's just such a crap show. That's why you're seeing me less and less on the Cardinals forum because I don't enjoy talking about failures and defeats that I can't fix myself.

Things have to change. Hopefully seeing Michael Bidwill without Keim is a harbinger of what's coming. Keim has had more than enough time to show that he can't build a consistent winner. Can Adrian Wilson build one? Can Quentin Harris build one? Unfortunately, I think if Keim is fired, we see one of those two get elevated to the top spot. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that AW was the one who made those comments to Jordan Schulz. Imagine how you would feel, working for your beloved team and seeing an incompetent buffoon running the show.

Keim just doesn't really have an organizational philosophy. When you look at the Pittsburgh Steelers, there is a clear organizational philosophy. Same with the Ravens. Same with the Niners. You can literally watch a college prospect and say, "That's a Pittsburgh Steelers kind of player." Can you say the same thing about the Cardinals?
 

Krangodnzr

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Simmons is a pigeon in coverage, and the whole NFL knows it. Time to try him on the edge and experiment at this point, nothing to lose.
I agree and kind of disagree. All is not lost with Simmons. Where he struggles is in plays where there is ambiguity. He's the type of player that on any given play should just have ONE responsibility. I've mentioned this before, but does anyone remember what Haason Reddick said when he was moved to OLB full time? He said that he was excited to play OLB because he had less reads to make. OLB only has a few responsibilities on any given play, whereas an ILB has a ton of reads to make.
 

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I think Kliff deserves a GOAT.

He does things that infuriate me sometimes.

Before half time he goes for it on 4th down up 6 on the Pats 31 and fails. This means the Pats don't have far to go to get their own FG and get back to within 3. Kick the FG and go up 9.

Then the first drive after HT he goes for it on 4th and 6 from their 41 (the Brown drop) while it's 13-13.

Corey Clement has an early 21 yard catch? Let's never use him again.

Conner is rushing for 5.7 per? Let's throw it 45 times against the top 5 pass defense and only rush 15.

Greg Dortch had 100 yards the last game? Let's only give him 4 snaps.
 

BritCard

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I agree and kind of disagree. All is not lost with Simmons. Where he struggles is in plays where there is ambiguity. He's the type of player that on any given play should just have ONE responsibility. I've mentioned this before, but does anyone remember what Haason Reddick said when he was moved to OLB full time? He said that he was excited to play OLB because he had less reads to make. OLB only has a few responsibilities on any given play, whereas an ILB has a ton of reads to make.

I'm afraid he's all physical talent and no intuition. Just has no feel for the game.
 
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kerouac9

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Keim just doesn't really have an organizational philosophy. When you look at the Pittsburgh Steelers, there is a clear organizational philosophy. Same with the Ravens. Same with the Niners. You can literally watch a college prospect and say, "That's a Pittsburgh Steelers kind of player." Can you say the same thing about the Cardinals?
100% on this. I've talked about a vision thing or having a philosophy and Keim doesn't have one. He kind of drafted on Arians' for a while, but once Michael pushed him out the scaffold wasn't in place.

It's like he learned that you draft second-day WRs from John Brown and Andre Roberts but never learned what to look for when you're drafting them.
 

Russ Smith

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That Isaiah play was zone and the safety was late rotating. That wasn't him getting caught looking in the backfield.

I don't think so I literally watched a review of the game earlier today and the ex NFL guy said the problem there was Simmons not Thompson. Simmons is responsible for the TE running through the zone to a certain point but as you can see clearly on the replay he got fooled, Jones looked like he might throw underneath and Simmons immediately stepped forward as Henry ran right by him into the now huge gape and it was impossible for Thompson, who's deep, to get there.

It's zone yes but he guessed wrong and gave up a huge gap
 

dreamcastrocks

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I don't think so I literally watched a review of the game earlier today and the ex NFL guy said the problem there was Simmons not Thompson. Simmons is responsible for the TE running through the zone to a certain point but as you can see clearly on the replay he got fooled, Jones looked like he might throw underneath and Simmons immediately stepped forward as Henry ran right by him into the now huge gape and it was impossible for Thompson, who's deep, to get there.

It's zone yes but he guessed wrong and gave up a huge gap
I watched the play several times as well. By the time they run past him, it was 12-15 yards down field. Simmons wasn't playing a deep zone.
 

dreamcastrocks

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It's quarters coverage and there was no one running under him. He was the most responsible player on that route.
If you break it down like that, I suppose. The defensive play call was the biggest problem with the play.
 

DVontel

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Simmons needs to get traded asap.

Not by Keim, but hopefully by a new GM.

I also hate the Reddick comparisons because Reddick was an EDGE/pass-rusher coming out before idiot Keim switched him to ILB. Simmons was never that.
 

DVontel

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& the fact that Simmons gets a stupid-amount of leeway on here is insane to me as well.
 
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kerouac9

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& the fact that Simmons gets a stupid-amount of leeway on here is insane to me as well.
Splash plays earn you a lot of leeway; just like making the right play but not splash plays gives you grief.

I was a huge critic of Budda Baker being overrated because he didn't make (m)any splash plays in the first couple years of his career.
 

TheCardFan

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You can't argue with the talent of Simmons.

The question is how can you translate that to a role in the NFL.
 

Krangodnzr

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100% on this. I've talked about a vision thing or having a philosophy and Keim doesn't have one. He kind of drafted on Arians' for a while, but once Michael pushed him out the scaffold wasn't in place.

It's like he learned that you draft second-day WRs from John Brown and Andre Roberts but never learned what to look for when you're drafting them.
I'd like to see this next draft just focus on the trenches. Keim seems to love "sexy" picks too much. I'm liking what I see from Sanders and Thomas and both should be playing a bunch right now. Lock up Zach Allen. It's not all crap, there are some good players on the roster. Marco Wilson has developed into a solid corner...last I checked he's actually been better than Murphy, though Murphy has taken on more #1s.

Keim just isn't the guy to take on this mini-rebuild. If the Cardinals brought in the right GM, they could be a decent team next year.
 

ASUCHRIS

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You can't argue with the talent of Simmons.
You're confusing measurables with talent. Measurables are nice, and Simmons is a physical freak, but as a football player? Meh. He's a great athlete playing football at this point.
 

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