We got to draft Suggs!!!

[AzWins23]

Since we lost Holliday.....We need to draft Suggs.....I'am not going into the season with Fred Wakefield as our starter!!! We need to Draft Suggs, get Brackens......Just please get a pass rusher!!!

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by AzWins23
Since we lost Holliday.....We need to draft Suggs.....I'am not going into the season with Fred Wakefield as our starter!!! We need to Draft Suggs, get Brackens......Just please get a pass rusher!!!

We've got a pas rusher . . . his name is Dennis Johnson. Okay, we still need to snag Suggs.

 

[JeffGollin]

Since we lost Holliday.....We need to draft Suggs....
Holliday and Suggs would fill 2 totally different roles. One has nothing to do with the other.

Regarding "needing to" draft Suggs or, for that matter, anyone - unless you have the top pick in the draft, you don't have total control over being able to accomplish that.

There is a danger in the "gotta have" strategy - you can succumb to the temptation of giving up too much in order to get the guy you want. Lines have to be drawn at some point.

It sure would be nice to draft Suggs. And the latest buzz points to increased chances of getting him at #6. But if you're suggesting we give up high draft picks or good players to trade up to get him, I think it would hurt the team more in the long run to do this.

We still need a second CB we can rely on. And it sure would be nice to bolster the DT position as well.

If Suggs weren't available and we wound up trading down for two #1's and and walking away with, say a Robertson and a McDougle or a Robertson and Woolfolk (with the option of drafting a Kelsay, Dewayne White or one of the remaining quality CB's with our #70) or if we wound up with a Henderson and a Kelsay with our two #1's, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by JeffGollin

We still need a second CB we can rely on. And it sure would be nice to bolster the DT position as well.

This is what amazes me I hear more people say this than I can shake a stick at.

Someone please tell me what games you were watching last year that showed that Barrett is not a competant #2 CB in this league? Please tell me where he was just smoked so often that you guys think he doesnt cut the mustard as a starter?

I hate to say it but I personally remember Starks being burned for more big plays than Barrett last season!

Barrett is a CB we can rely on and he is talented makes plays and tackles extremely well!

Give this CB a pass rush and they will be a very solid NFL defensive backfield!!!

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Shane H
This is what amazes me I hear more people say this than I can shake a stick at.

Someone please tell me what games you were watching last year that showed that Barrett is not a competant #2 CB in this league? Please tell me where he was just smoked so often that you guys think he doesnt cut the mustard as a starter?

I hate to say it but I personally remember Starks being burned for more big plays than Barrett last season!

Barrett is a CB we can rely on and he is talented makes plays and tackles extremely well!

Give this CB a pass rush and they will be a very solid NFL defensive backfield!!!

Barrett is a good ZONE corner. But, when we played man-to-man last year, he got torched pretty badly. Yes, a pass rush would certainly help him. I think getting Newman if we can't get Suggs would be the second best way to upgrade our D. That way Barrett becomes the nickel guy, instead of Hill.

As for Brackens......after Swann and Wadsworth and their microfractures he's going to have a tough time passing one of our physicals.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Barrett is a good ZONE corner. But, when we played man-to-man last year, he got torched pretty badly. Yes, a pass rush would certainly help him. I think getting Newman if we can't get Suggs would be the second best way to upgrade our D. That way Barrett becomes the nickel guy, instead of Hill.

As for Brackens......after Swann and Wadsworth and their microfractures he's going to have a tough time passing one of our physicals.

Sorry dood but Shane is right, Barrett has been very good. The guy rarely gets beat and is a big time tackler. How can anyone judge are secondary when they are forced to cover guys for 6-8 seconds per play...?

Now getting a guy to compete for one of the starting jobs is a great idea. You have to have 3 good corners in the NFL, but we have many more needs b4 that one... DE,WR,DT...

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Barrett is a good ZONE corner. But, when we played man-to-man last year, he got torched pretty badly. Yes, a pass rush would certainly help him. I think getting Newman if we can't get Suggs would be the second best way to upgrade our D. That way Barrett becomes the nickel guy, instead of Hill.

I thought Barrett was pretty solid last year.
He didn't get torched nearly as often as he probably should have, given the circumstances.

 

[SweetD]

Suggs is the hometown hero. ALA Jake Plummer..... I say replace an ASU alum with an ASU alum.

Go Cards
Go Devils

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I thought Barrett was pretty solid last year.
He didn't get torched nearly as often as he probably should have, given the circumstances.

Yes, he was adequate. But, I still have visions of him about 2 yards behind guys like Torry Holt and Joey Porter on crossing routes last year. He's smart, he's tough, he's a competitor. What he lacks is some speed. He can be upgraded.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by BEERZ
Sorry dood but Shane is right, Barrett has been very good. The guy rarely gets beat and is a big time tackler. How can anyone judge are secondary when they are forced to cover guys for 6-8 seconds per play...?

Now getting a guy to compete for one of the starting jobs is a great idea. You have to have 3 good corners in the NFL, but we have many more needs b4 that one... DE,WR,DT...

Couldnt have been said better!

Sorry Aj but we will be just fine at CB as long as we can muster some sort of pass rush!

 

[JeffGollin]

Someone please tell me what games you were watching last year that showed that Barrett is not a competant #2 CB in this league?
How about Every Game?

It wasn't that David was horrible - say in the Tito Paul/Tommy Knight category. But he was tantalizingly late on a number of passes when he was in man coverage, causing me to refer to him as The Late David Barrett.

When you watch other decent defenses execute, their corners play tighter and break up more passes than our corners do. It's not that Starks and Barrett are lousy CB's, they're more like Lyndon Johnson's daughters - "semi-beautiful."

Close isn't good enough when you're pass defending, and Barrett was "almost" a lot more than he was "got there!"

He also inexibly too often had problems this past year - breaking down when facing a ball carrier one on one in the open field.

Can he develop into an acceptable CB? Absolutely. But it's no lock that he will. Going into the next season with our #2 CB still a questionmark is like repeatedly hitting yourself "because it feels so good when you stop."

 

[ajcardfan]

Good analysis, Jeff. Of course, that's how I see it to!

No one is saying he's godawful. He just has some limitations that will keep him from being a #1 corner. He's a servicable #2 for us since we play so much zone. I think he could be a terrific nickel back.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Someone please tell me what games you were watching last year that showed that Barrett is not a competant #2 CB in this league?
How about Every Game?

It wasn't that David was horrible - say in the Tito Paul/Tommy Knight category. But he was tantalizingly late on a number of passes when he was in man coverage, causing me to refer to him as The Late David Barrett.

When you watch other decent defenses execute, their corners play tighter and break up more passes than our corners do. It's not that Starks and Barrett are lousy CB's, they're more like Lyndon Johnson's daughters - "semi-beautiful."

Close isn't good enough when you're pass defending, and Barrett was "almost" a lot more than he was "got there!"

He also inexibly too often had problems this past year - breaking down when facing a ball carrier one on one in the open field.

Can he develop into an acceptable CB? Absolutely. But it's no lock that he will. Going into the next season with our #2 CB still a questionmark is like repeatedly hitting yourself "because it feels so good when you stop."

Sorry Jeff but we must just have to agree to disagree because the Barrett I saw made plays and was a superb tackler even in the open field!

Granted he was late on many throws and so was Starks for that matter but I truly believe that is more as a result of having no pass rush or pressure on a QB!

That is going to directly affect how your CBs are performing. 6-8 seconds to throw is unacceptable and NO CB would perform as expected under those circumsatnces!

 

[john h]

Originally posted by AzWins23
Since we lost Holliday.....We need to draft Suggs.....I'am not going into the season with Fred Wakefield as our starter!!! We need to Draft Suggs, get Brackens......Just please get a pass rusher!!!

I can live with Suggs but there are still some unanswered questions about him. Can he stop the run? As I remember many were always critsizing Rice for not being a run stopper. Is ihe just a 3rd down pass rusher? Is he big enough? If he is still there at #6 then why is he still there? Where workouts mean anthing or not his workout was not very impressive. Are we taking him just because he is a local hero?

What if Palmer or Leftwich are there also at #6? A franchise QB does not come along very often. DE are there every year.

 

[Shane]

Re: Re: We got to draft Suggs!!!

Originally posted by john h
I can live with Suggs but there are still some unanswered questions about him. Can he stop the run? As I remember many were always critsizing Rice for not being a run stopper. Is ihe just a 3rd down pass rusher? Is he big enough? If he is still there at #6 then why is he still there? Where workouts mean anthing or not his workout was not very impressive. Are we taking him just because he is a local hero?

What if Palmer or Leftwich are there also at #6? A franchise QB does not come along very often. DE are there every year.

Supposed "Franchise QBs" are there every year as well!

If Suggs is there we take him. He is our most glaring need and will also fit the dreaded "best available label"

 

[john h]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Since we lost Holliday.....We need to draft Suggs....
Holliday and Suggs would fill 2 totally different roles. One has nothing to do with the other.

Regarding "needing to" draft Suggs or, for that matter, anyone - unless you have the top pick in the draft, you don't have total control over being able to accomplish that.

There is a danger in the "gotta have" strategy - you can succumb to the temptation of giving up too much in order to get the guy you want. Lines have to be drawn at some point.

It sure would be nice to draft Suggs. And the latest buzz points to increased chances of getting him at #6. But if you're suggesting we give up high draft picks or good players to trade up to get him, I think it would hurt the team more in the long run to do this.

We still need a second CB we can rely on. And it sure would be nice to bolster the DT position as well.

If Suggs weren't available and we wound up trading down for two #1's and and walking away with, say a Robertson and a McDougle or a Robertson and Woolfolk (with the option of drafting a Kelsay, Dewayne White or one of the remaining quality CB's with our #70) or if we wound up with a Henderson and a Kelsay with our two #1's, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I think the odds on getting a good DE with the 2nd pick are not all that bad. I know Leftwich or a Palmer will not be of any help this year but going forward we have to have a good QB. If our coaches think McCown can be that then fine. Draft Suggs but if they have any doubt at all and Palmer or Leftwich is there I take the QB.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Shane H
Sorry Jeff but we must just have to agree to disagree because the Barrett I saw made plays and was a superb tackler even in the open field!

Granted he was late on many throws and so was Starks for that matter but I truly believe that is more as a result of having no pass rush or pressure on a QB!

That is going to directly affect how your CBs are performing. 6-8 seconds to throw is unacceptable and NO CB would perform as expected under those circumsatnces!

with our lack of a defensive rush what cornerback is going to look real good. I would not judge our cb's to harshly because of our zero pass rush. i say we need Barrett. who is our alternative?

 

[slanidrac16]

I AGREE!

Originally posted by BEERZ
Sorry dood but Shane is right, Barrett has been very good. The guy rarely gets beat and is a big time tackler. How can anyone judge are secondary when they are forced to cover guys for 6-8 seconds per play...?

Now getting a guy to compete for one of the starting jobs is a great idea. You have to have 3 good corners in the NFL, but we have many more needs b4 that one... DE,WR,DT...

I'm more worried about Starks. I think Barrett will be fine. Nueman biggest contributions to the team this year is as a return man and even be utilized at wr at times. That being said we need a pass rusher. Period. If Suggs is gone, McDougle might be a guy to consider. Most will say thats too high at #6. All I know is we need a pass rusher.