Reality Check - Roster Construction

Dayman

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As I said above.

The cash that goes towards paying players and the cap is completely separate from the cash that is required for running the show, improving the stadium, improving facilities, paying coaches etc

48% of all team profits have to go towards paying players and the team must spend at least 89% of that cash over a 4 year span (technically it's cap but cap is just how you manage the cash so ultimately the same). There's no rule on how that is managed in a single year, so it's possible Michael can borrow from Peter to pay Paul over a short period but he has to pay Peter back at some point.

It's true that Michael doesn't have lots of his own cash to loan to the team to front load cash deals. But that's not the same as being short of cash for player contracts. That's mandated by the league.

Bidwill's issues are more cash flow, the team will always be more limited in what they can pay in upfront cash because they don't have Walmart or Kroenke pockets but the total pool of cash available to pay players isn't restricted over any other team.

The whole "Bidwill is setting a budget and the FO are restricted by how poor/cheap he is" is literally a made up narrative.
This is a large part of cap management. You just proved my point. Thanks.
 
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cheesebeef

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Wait...

On one hand you have been relentlessly attacking the FO for not making any big moves in FA or resigning Allen or Murphy.
Stopped reading right there when you started lying about my opinions here.

It’s a sad debate tactic that only shows how laughably pathetic your own argument is when you have to distort someone else’s to make your point.

As usual.
 

gimpy

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The only people I have seen calling people liars on here is you. And I'm very surprised and upset that the moderators let you get away with it.
Stopped reading right there when you started lying about my opinions here.

It’s a sad debate tactic that only shows how laughably pathetic your own argument is when you have to distort someone else’s to make your point.

As usual.
 

cheesebeef

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The only people I have seen calling people liars on here is you. And I'm very surprised and upset that the moderators let you get away with it.
So, I should be punished because people repeatedly keep misrepresenting my argument to strengthen their own? That makes sense.

I’m not going to report posters for consistently projecting stupid arguments on to me I’ve never made, but when they do, the best to describe their behavior is lying, AFAIC. When they stop lying about my opinions, I’ll stop calling them out for doing so.

If you don’t like it, put me on ignore.
 
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Stout

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The only people I have seen calling people liars on here is you. And I'm very surprised and upset that the moderators let you get away with it.
Nah, @BritCard misrepresents what other people post and then attacks the false position he creates. As in "people are made we didn't sign big FAs" when literally no one was clamoring for big FA signings. Let's just say that's not honest.
 
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Stopped reading right there when you started lying about my opinions here.

It’s a sad debate tactic that only shows how laughably pathetic your own argument is when you have to distort someone else’s to make your point.

As usual.
Just to be clear you don't have an issue with the FO not making any big moves in FA so far or for not re-signing Murphy & Allen & you haven't been complaining about it? Is it the adjectives he's using that you are calling him a liar for? I just want to make sure so nothing is ambiguous here. It's hard for some of us to understand at times.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Just to be clear you don't have an issue with the FO not making any big moves in FA so far or for not re-signing Murphy & Allen & you haven't been complaining about it? Is it the adjectives he's using that you are calling him a liar for? I just want to make sure so nothing is ambiguous here. It's hard for some of us to understand at times.
Cheese isn’t called for any “big moves.” To my knowledge not a single poster has done so. That’s been a consistent strawman argument of Brit’s. Along with the characterizations of people “raging.”
 

cheesebeef

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Just to be clear you don't have an issue with the FO not making any big moves in FA so far or for not re-signing Murphy & Allen & you haven't been complaining about it? Is it the adjectives he's using that you are calling him a liar for? I just want to make sure so nothing is ambiguous here. It's hard for some of us to understand at times.
cub, no matter what I write, nor how many times I write it, you are still going to misconstrue or ignore it either because for some mind-boggling reason, it's easier to be mad at me than at the team that makes all of us miserable the majority of fall Sundays.

I've explained myself too many times for you not to get it at this point.
 

Krangodnzr

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The only people I have seen calling people liars on here is you. And I'm very surprised and upset that the moderators let you get away with it.
I don't see any "lies".

What I do see is a collection of people who get really angry about this stuff and project that angry on nearly every thread. It's funny because I largely agree with the position, it's just the consistency of the postings that's annoying.

It's like every signing is another reason to bitch, even ones that are reasonable. If anyone even remotely says anything positive about the signing, they essentially get moved by 4-5 of the same posters. It happens nearly every year and if it wasnt so annoying, it would be comical.
 

slanidrac16

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No matter who we’ve sign or who we do sign I think one think is crystal clear… this rookie class will play and play a lot. They will get every opportunity to win a starting spot.
I don’t think we will have to wait two or three years.
 

Stout

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No matter we’ve sign or who we do sign I think one think is crystal clear… this rookie class will play and play a lot. They will get every opportunity to win a starting spot.
I don’t think we will have to wait two or three years.
That's the truth and I'm glad of it. The only problem I foresee is we are clogging this roster with players who only really make sense on special teams, which will hinder the lesser draft picks from making contributions and even making the team. I mean, we have how many linebackers who are really positionless and merely here for special teams now?
 

slanidrac16

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That's the truth and I'm glad of it. The only problem I foresee is we are clogging this roster with players who only really make sense on special teams, which will hinder the lesser draft picks from making contributions and even making the team. I mean, we have how many linebackers who are really positionless and merely here for special teams now?
I’m not sure all these guys we’ve sign will be on the roster come September.
 

BritCard

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Stopped reading right there when you started lying about my opinions here.

It’s a sad debate tactic that only shows how laughably pathetic your own argument is when you have to distort someone else’s to make your point.

As usual.

I'm lying about your opinions? So you don't blame the FO for not making any bigger moves in FA and no resigning Allen and Murphy? You do realise we can see every post you write and everything you like right?

Monti = Keim after he got the Steve King Thinner curse.

Yup… “belly of the beast!” “Graves has a plan!” “Assistant coaches who are teachers! (Aka WR coach Jerry Sullivan turned first time OC)”.

All the way down to people already defending a possible trading down and passing on the best pass rusher at a position of desperate need.

We can’t see this because IT’S NOT WHATS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

Your inability to realize that the Stout’s of the board know we’re going to be terrible is beyond me at this point. The issue he and others like me have is if we’re truly going to be terrible, go all the way and bite the pain with one bullet wherever you can. Instead, this plan seems like a pointless endeavor to spread the pain over multiple seasons, preemptively shouting ourselves in the crotch with decisions like pushing Watt/Hudson cap hits forward and deciding to hold on to aging, mediocre and one of them majorly injured with an ACL year. All moves which prolong the pain another year for reason whatsoever.

Yes. signing the cheapest Cardinals available and some of the worst players in the league definitely builds a good culture.

This is straight 2003 “build the belly of the beast” stuff that littered the board back then.

And this is just in the last few days. If I went back further I could quote post after post of you slagging off the new GM, what we have done in FA, what we haven't done in FA etc

And there's a lot of nonsense about how we aren't really tearing it down because we didn;t dump Conner and Ertz and we used June 1st designations which you a basic misunderstanding of how cap rules work that make these points completely invalid.

But just for clarity why don't you tell us exactly what your thoughts are and how I misrepresented them so we can be sure it doesn't happen again in the future.
 

BritCard

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I mean, we have how many linebackers who are really positionless and merely here for special teams now?

Two. Zeke Turner and Josh Woods.

Krys Barnes isn't really a big ST's guy.

Josh Woods is the only real ST's guy we signed. If anything we are still well short. No real gunners. No returners. Don't even have a punter or long snapper.
 

Stout

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I'm lying about your opinions? So you don't blame the FO for not making any bigger moves in FA and no resigning Allen and Murphy? You do realise we can see every post you write and everything you like right?











And this is just in the last few days. If I went back further I could quote post after post of you slagging off the new GM, what we have done in FA, what we haven't done in FA etc

And there's a lot of nonsense about how we aren't really tearing it down because we didn;t dump Conner and Ertz and we used June 1st designations which you a basic misunderstanding of how cap rules work that make these points completely invalid.

But just for clarity why don't you tell us exactly what your thoughts are and how I misrepresented them so we can be sure it doesn't happen again in the future.
In none of these posts was Cheese clamoring for "Big moves in FA" which you have continually and totally misrepresented in accusing him and others of clamoring for. None of us were/are looking for "big moves in FA." Just because you altered the language in this post doesn't mean we haven't seen you post it. Posting history works both ways.

So maybe just stop saying people wanted "Big FA signings," disagree that we should have signed some better--not big--FAs that are here for the long-term, and move on. Harmonious disagreement is possible, but not when you misrepresent what people are saying because that forms the basis of your argument.
 

BritCard

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In none of these posts was Cheese clamoring for "Big moves in FA" which you have continually and totally misrepresented in accusing him and others of clamoring for. None of us were/are looking for "big moves in FA." Just because you altered the language in this post doesn't mean we haven't seen you post it. Posting history works both ways.

So maybe just stop saying people wanted "Big FA signings," disagree that we should have signed some better--not big--FAs that are here for the long-term, and move on. Harmonious disagreement is possible, but not when you misrepresent what people are saying because that forms the basis of your argument.

He's done nothing but moan about every move made. Big, bigger, better. Whatever. It's just semantics. The general principle is exactly the same.

On one hand he's saying why would anyone sign here, we suck, the franchise sucks, it's always sucked and on the other he's moaning we haven't signed BETTER players.

No matter if it's bigger or better the principle is still the same and the two things don't go together.

But how about we let Cheese reply for himself? Because you have been arguing you're not one homogeneous blob with the same opinion and not to lump you all together yet you feel pretty comfortable arguing for what @cheesebeef thinks...

If only he stood by this post

I asked for wholesale changes and got wholesale changes. Not gonna say much good or bad until FA and the draft start to see what kind of team they’re building. Even then, probably won’t say much until I see what the product on the field looks like.

I'm pretty sure much of his anger comes from his misunderstanding of this situation

Sigh… after letting their most talented and young two FA walk they SHOULD be in total tear down. But they’re not actually doing that If they’re not getting rid of Ertz and Conner.

That’s my point. This isn’t a tear down if you’re keeping guys like that. That’s just being cheap.
 
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cub, no matter what I write, nor how many times I write it, you are still going to misconstrue or ignore it either because for some mind-boggling reason, it's easier to be mad at me than at the team that makes all of us miserable the majority of fall Sundays.

I've explained myself too many times for you not to get it at this point.
If you aren't upset about what they haven't done what are you upset about? Is it what they have done? I'm not ignoring anything & I'm not mad at anybody. I see you calling other people liars & I'm not seeing. Actually everything on this board has been like swimming through muddy waters lately. It's been crazy. :cheers:
 

Stout

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He's done nothing but moan about every move made. Big, bigger, better. Whatever. It's just semantics. The general principle is exactly the same.

On one hand he's saying why would anyone sign here, we suck, the franchise sucks, it's always sucked and on the other he's moaning we haven't signed BETTER players.

No matter if it's bigger or better the principle is still the same and the two things don't go together.

But how about we let Cheese reply for himself? Because you have been arguing you're not one homogeneous blob with the same opinion and not to lump you all together yet you feel pretty comfortable arguing for what @cheesebeef thinks...

If only he stood by this post



I'm pretty sure much of his anger comes from his misunderstanding of this situation
You're perceived misunderstanding of the situation. I'm good with saying I don't think we're tearing it down right and you saying we are. Where the problem comes in is that we're not allowed to hold that opinion because you just blanketly tell us we're wrong. That's not going to work and people (myself included) will argue the point.
 

Stout

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If you aren't upset about what they haven't done what are you upset about? Is it what they have done? I'm not ignoring anything & I'm not mad at anybody. I see you calling other people liars & I'm not seeing. Actually everything on this board has been like swimming through muddy waters lately. It's been crazy. :cheers:
Liars = equating the collective opinion that the FO isn't doing a good job to us merely wanting big name FA signings. That is the lie sticking in most poster's craw because it is a total fabrication. A fabrication spun so hopium folks can bash at us. Not so hard to understand.
 

BritCard

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You're perceived misunderstanding of the situation. I'm good with saying I don't think we're tearing it down right and you saying we are. Where the problem comes in is that we're not allowed to hold that opinion because you just blanketly tell us we're wrong. That's not going to work and people (myself included) will argue the point.

Well yeah, because the basis of "not tearing it down right" have been flawed arguments about Conner and Ertz and how Watt and Hudson's dead cap has been managed.

All those things have been managed in the best way they can right now. If there is another argument for them not tearing it down right I haven't seen one.
 

Stout

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Well yeah, because the basis of "not tearing it down right" have been flawed arguments about Conner and Ertz and how Watt and Hudson's dead cap has been managed.

All those things have been managed in the best way they can right now. If there is another argument for them not tearing it down right I haven't seen one.
In your opinion. Problem is, you present your opinion as blanket fact. Thoughts and opinions aren't facts. If we don't sway you with our thoughts and opinions, that's okay. We don't expect to. Simply don't expect us to bow to your "facts" and all is well.
 

BritCard

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In your opinion. Problem is, you present your opinion as blanket fact. Thoughts and opinions aren't facts. If we don't sway you with our thoughts and opinions, that's okay. We don't expect to. Simply don't expect us to bow to your "facts" and all is well.

No mate. This isn't an opinion. Some things are, in fact most things on here are. This isn't.

If you said the Cards play in Green jerseys it wouldn't be an opinion to say they don't.

Cutting Conner and Ertz now loses us money this year and 300k next year. That's a fact. Ergo it's a nonsensical idea to cut them. Trading Ertz makes sense later but that can't happen until after camp most likely.

Without Watt and Hudson's June 1st designations and Humps restructure we would have $2m in useable cap space. We currently have 62 players. Therefore they were needed and if we don't need them they roll over and cancel themselves out. So again, it's nonsensical.

These are facts. Not opinions.

The opinion that we are "not tearing it down right" is wrong if this is the basis for that opinion.
 

Stout

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No mate. This isn't an opinion. Some things are, in fact most things on here are. This isn't.

If you said the Cards play in Green jerseys it wouldn't be an opinion to say they don't.

Cutting Conner and Ertz now loses us money this year and 300k next year. That's a fact. Ergo it's a nonsensical idea to cut them. Trading Ertz makes sense later but that can't happen until after camp most likely.

Without Watt and Hudson's June 1st designations and Humps restructure we would have $2m in useable cap space. We currently have 62 players. Therefore they were needed and if we don't need them they roll over and cancel themselves out. So again, it's nonsensical.

These are facts. Not opinions.

The opinion that we are "not tearing it down right" is wrong if this is the basis for that opinion.
BLAH BLAH BLAH @BritCard "told me off" that his opinions are fact and there "can be no arguments" BLAH BLAH BLAH lack of logic and poor rhetoric BLAH BLAH BLAH rinse, wash, repeat.

Just sit behind your keyboard and feel good in your feeling of righteousness, man.
 

BritCard

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BLAH BLAH BLAH @BritCard "told me off" that his opinions are fact and there "can be no arguments" BLAH BLAH BLAH lack of logic and poor rhetoric BLAH BLAH BLAH rinse, wash, repeat.

Just sit behind your keyboard and feel good in your feeling of righteousness, man.

Sure man. Tell me how it's not factual?
 

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