Reality Check - Roster Construction

Harry

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There seems to be many complaining the Cards aren’t making enough effort to be competitive next year. I thought going in to the off-season there might be a narrow path to significant improvement. Those hopes quickly evaporated when the price of free agents exploded. The Cards lost 2 decent performers. Allen because the price of expectations reached new heights. They also lost a CB with a concerning injury history who played best against slot receivers. Again, if healthy, he had some growth potential. Still keeping both might well have negatively impacted the future roster flexibility. So the Cards tried to move conservatively to maximize future options. They’ve tried to build depth on both lines with players who when draft appeared to have high potential and simply never fulfilled that potential. It’s old school but establishing effective, deep lines has historically been a path to reasonable competitiveness. This hasn’t meant grabbing expensive free agents, who historically have proved risky selections. There are, of course, few sure things from a draft, but there is safety in numbers. It also appears the Cards aren’t afraid to trade down and increase their potential. I know Anderson looks like the real deal, but even some of those have turned out to be illusionary players. Vernon Gholston comes to mind. It’s not clear which path will result in the best team. In the end, it was always a long shot for the Cards to be competitive in 2023, which I realize is especially painful for season ticket holders. I just think you have to give new administrations the time to at least put their vision in play for a couple of years before assessing the team’s trajectory. Let’s see if acquired players can be “coached up” to be competent contributors. Let’s see how msny of the team’s numerous holes can be plugged effectively through the draft. Let’s see how efficiently game management decisions are made. Instead of early wins, let focus on the foundations being established. It’s okay to call them out, but they should get a little grace time for us to develop a better understanding of their plan. I do believe they have one and it’s likely a shared vision amongst the administration.
 

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The old regime (Ariens/Keim) used free agency to fill in holes and allow draft picks time to develop before seeing the field. It was frustrating not seeing our 1st round picks sit the sideline every week, but I kinda understood their philosophy. Problems arose when draft picks didn't develop and you had to start replacing both them and the aging free agents with more even more free agents. It ended up leading into a death spiral where we now find ourselves. In trying to "run it back" the last couple of years, instead of focusing on long term stability, we set ourselves up for our current situation.

We need to go back to the old Denny Green model.. bring in as many young players over the next two years, from established competitive programs and let them develop together.

I'm taking Will Anderson with the 3 (or 4th) pick... then trading down every pick thereafter, adding as many picks in this draft and the next as possible. Keim was right in that the best shot at success was having as many picks as possible, but how long has it been since we've even had our allotted 7 picks in a draft? We only had 3 in the top 5 rounds last year and the year before, and 4 in the top 5 roounds in 2020. Not nearly enough, even if you hit on all of them. Time to build the roster, not just duct tape it together.

Go Cards!!!
 

kerouac9

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They’ve tried to build depth on both lines with players who when draft appeared to have high potential and simply never fulfilled that potential. It’s old school but establishing effective, deep lines has historically been a path to reasonable competitiveness.

Guys who had potential four years ago and not panned out is not a recipe for depth or efficacy. The teams that knew them best decided they didn't have a use for them.

Maybe our inexperienced coaching staff can get something out of them, but it's a low-percentage play.

It's crazy to me that people are assuming that Monti Ossenfort is going to trade down multiple times and generate a historically great draft class. The Pats have been terrible drafters for the past decade; the Titans GM just got fired because he had a handful of bad drafts in a row.

If the hinge point in your roster-building plan is to pull four starters out of two consecutive draft classes, your roster-building plan is stillborn.
 

kerouac9

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The old regime (Ariens/Keim) used free agency to fill in holes and allow draft picks time to develop before seeing the field. It was frustrating not seeing our 1st round picks sit the sideline every week, but I kinda understood their philosophy. Problems arose when draft picks didn't develop and you had to start replacing both them and the aging free agents with more even more free agents. It ended up leading into a death spiral where we now find ourselves. In trying to "run it back" the last couple of years, instead of focusing on long term stability, we set ourselves up for our current situation.

We need to go back to the old Denny Green model.. bring in as many young players over the next two years, from established competitive programs and let them develop together.

I'm taking Will Anderson with the 3 (or 4th) pick... then trading down every pick thereafter, adding as many picks in this draft and the next as possible. Keim was right in that the best shot at success was having as many picks as possible, but how long has it been since we've even had our allotted 7 picks in a draft? We only had 3 in the top 5 rounds last year and the year before, and 4 in the top 5 roounds in 2020. Not nearly enough, even if you hit on all of them. Time to build the roster, not just duct tape it together.

Go Cards!!!
Dennis Green was 16-32 as head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

Bruce Arians was 49-30-1 as head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

I don't understand what people are talking about here.
 

BritCard

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Guys who had potential four years ago and not panned out is not a recipe for depth or efficacy. The teams that knew them best decided they didn't have a use for them.

Maybe our inexperienced coaching staff can get something out of them, but it's a low-percentage play.

It's crazy to me that people are assuming that Monti Ossenfort is going to trade down multiple times and generate a historically great draft class. The Pats have been terrible drafters for the past decade; the Titans GM just got fired because he had a handful of bad drafts in a row.

If the hinge point in your roster-building plan is to pull four starters out of two consecutive draft classes, your roster-building plan is stillborn.

Nobody can build a team through free agency.

You build through the draft or you don't build at all. Especially with a QB earning a large chunk of the cap.

The teams signing the best and most expensive FA's can only do so because good drafts allow them too.
 

kerouac9

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Nobody can build a team through free agency.

You build through the draft or you don't build at all. Especially with a QB earning a large chunk of the cap.

The teams signing the best and most expensive FA's can only do so because good drafts allow them too.
You only get draft picks for 4 years. You have to resign your good players or you're perpetually rebuilding.

No one is saying we should have signed "the best and most expensive FAs." This is a straw man argument. I think people are saying maybe we could try re-signing our better players and maybe not signing the worst and least expensive FAs in almost literally every case except guys who were friends with the head coach.
 

BritCard

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You only get draft picks for 4 years. You have to resign your good players or you're perpetually rebuilding.

No one is saying we should have signed "the best and most expensive FAs." This is a straw man argument. I think people are saying maybe we could try re-signing our better players and maybe not signing the worst and least expensive FAs in almost literally every case except guys who were friends with the head coach.

You don't get good by paying oft injured, slightly above average guys big money because we drafted them. I can see why some people would be pissed about it. It's a close call thing, but you must see the other side of the argument too right?

As I said elsewhere. Zach Allen is just Dawuane Smoot but at 3x the price Smoot got a year ago. I don't recall anyone here saying Smoot was a must get target.

This year is about building depth, trying to find gold in discarded scrap, hitting on draft picks and going into 2024 with a boat load of cap space and good draft capital to contend.
 

Snakester

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I would like to see two quality free agent starters every year. I believe this is easily doable then build through the draft. Outside of injuries I think this will keep any team competitive for the playoffs every year. I don’t believe tearing down a team is necessary but continuing to add keeps a team competitive always.
 

BirdGangThing

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I would like to see two quality free agent starters every year. I believe this is easily doable then build through the draft. Outside of injuries I think this will keep any team competitive for the playoffs every year. I don’t believe tearing down a team is necessary but continuing to add keeps a team competitive always.
How about we get zero quality free agent starters this year and then get 4 or 5 next year?
 

Snakester

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How about we get zero quality free agent starters this year and then get 4 or 5 next year?
That’s what appears to be happening this year. I don’t believe in throwing in the towel any year. All it takes is a handful of moves every year to be competitive.
 
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JohnnyCakes

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agreed Harry

It doesnt get more transparent than Monti himself saying .. "we are not going to sign guys just to sign them"

In other words-- have patience, when the time is right to add FA pieces then we will do so but we need to build a foundation first.
 

slanidrac16

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Keep posting Harry. There are many on this site that believe we could have been competitive this year and to a certain degree may be right.
But this team is 8-9 players away from being truly competitive especially without our Qb.
I don’t want to go through another 4 win season with the same old Keim philosophy. I don’t want to think a 6 win season would be a vast improvement. I’m tired of paying vets like, yes dare I say Watts a gazzilion dollars and continue to pay him after he’s gone for his contributions to a 4 win season.
We’ve put our fingers in the dyke for years and when we ran out of fingers we used bandaids.
I’d rather watch a team struggle to 3 wins during a total rebuild than to watch 4 wins of a roster of overpaid under performing washed up veterans.
But hey, that’s just me.
 

BirdGangThing

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That’s what appears to be happening this year. I don’t believe in throwing in the towel any year. All it takes is a handful of moves every year to be competitive.
Agreed, throwing in the towel before the season even starts is usually the sign of a cheap owner and complicit GM but I don't believe that to be the case here. I don't think our situation was fixable, particularly in 2023, so Monti decided to start from scratch
 

Cheesebeef

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Keep posting Harry. There are many on this site that believe we could have been competitive this year and to a certain degree may be right.
But this team is 8-9 players away from being truly competitive especially without our Qb.
I don’t want to go through another 4 win season with the same old Keim philosophy. I don’t want to think a 6 win season would be a vast improvement. I’m tired of paying vets like, yes dare I say Watts a gazzilion dollars and continue to pay him after he’s gone for his contributions to a 4 win season.
We’ve put our fingers in the dyke for years and when we ran out of fingers we used bandaids.
I’d rather watch a team struggle to 3 wins during a total rebuild than to watch 4 wins of a roster of overpaid under performing washed up veterans.
But hey, that’s just me.
Keep trolling by lying and projecting specious arguments that posters aren’t making.
 

slanidrac16

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Keep trolling by lying and projecting specious arguments that posters aren’t making.
Trolling. That’s funny. Continue your beliefs that signing two free agents during the first two weeks of the new year is going to make a huge difference this year or next.
Carry on.
 

kerouac9

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Agreed, throwing in the towel before the season even starts is usually the sign of a cheap owner and complicit GM but I don't believe that to be the case here. I don't think our situation was fixable, particularly in 2023, so Monti decided to start from scratch
But he's not starting from scratch. He's prolonging the pain of the Watt and Hudson contracts for another year.

If you're going to purge, don't you want to get rid of everything?
 

Dayman

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The narrative about Murphy's injury history has grown substantially since he wasn't re-signed. He had missed 1 game in his career before last year. I know back injuries can be tricky, but there's nothing out there that states that he has a long-term issue.
 

Cheesebeef

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Trolling. That’s funny. Continue your beliefs that signing two free agents during the first two weeks of the new year is going to make a huge difference this year or next.
Carry on.
Point me to ONE post where I’ve made the above argument? You can’t because I’ve never made that argument.

Carry on lying and trolling. Makes for great discussion on the board.
 

slanidrac16

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But he's not starting from scratch. He's prolonging the pain of the Watt and Hudson contracts for another year.

If you're going to purge, don't you want to get rid of everything?
I don’t believe we are done purging. We’re not going to just cut guys like Ertz and Connor. I would not be shocked to see them traded prior to the trade deadline. Probably won’t get much more than a 6 th round pick but it will be something.
Not really sure how trading them mid season would change or affect our cap hit.
 

BritCard

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But he's not starting from scratch. He's prolonging the pain of the Watt and Hudson contracts for another year.

If you're going to purge, don't you want to get rid of everything?

He's not. Any money pushed into next year will get wiped out by the carry over from this year.

Had they not been made post June 1st cuts we would have $9m cap space right now.

If we don't use the $8m we saved this year with post June 1st designations then it rolls over and wipes itself out.
 

BirdGangThing

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If they won't come now barring a big overpay, why will they come next year, when we're even worse?
Who said we're going to be worse next year? If we draft smart this year, sign quality free agents in 2024 and draft smart again, how would we be worse next year? This is actually a simple plan. It's not a Patriot plan, it's not a Texan plan, it's not a Bear's plan, and there is zero reason to suggest we'd be worse off next year than we are right now. But do your thing, enjoy your little poop on Monti party before he even gets started. Everybody wanted major changes this year but some just seem to be forever unhappy or devoid of any hope and I get it... this is the way. I'm guessing this is the part where you say I don't understand football (again) yet I seem to be right on par with everything that's happened so far. But by all means, feel free to continue doing so lol
 
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