Reality Check - Roster Construction

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,680
Reaction score
13,259
Location
Modesto, California
That’s not true. Just because someone doesn’t want to take the time to research why you’re wrong doesn’t mean you’re right. It just means they haven’t proven you wrong. There’s a world of difference between those two things.
are you a wife?

you are wrong but I just dont want to take the time to prove it...

could swear I have heard that before!
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,680
Reaction score
13,259
Location
Modesto, California
But i think that’s the point. If you repeatedly politely point out the fact that someone is purposefully putting words in your mouth and they continue to do so you’ve eventually got to escalate if you want it to stop. “Liar” is absolutely an inflammatory word. It is also accurate. Know what avoids that label? Owning your contrivance and apologizing.
concept: Disengage
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,387
Reaction score
1,995
Location
ASFN
I think that @kerouac9 is 100% correct in stating that finding 4 starters in any draft is a tall task. It just rarely happens, even for the best teams.

I think the Cardinals should only plan for 2-3 starters from any given draft.

I agree with the "darksiders" that the Cardinals are missing the opportunity to add a few players NOW. An argument can be made that they have added ONE in Kyzir White this year.

We will know after the draft what the plan is. If the Cardinals trade down and get extra day two picks and future picks, they probably think that they can just fill all needs through the draft. This is a very dicey proposition. Only the absolute best front offices can pull this off and even then, they probably won't really compete for championships.
Agree
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,387
Reaction score
1,995
Location
ASFN
Now you're just playing dumb. It doesn't suit you. Drafts are important. FA is important. Trades are important. Every route of making your roster better is important.
Agree
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,387
Reaction score
1,995
Location
ASFN
Find one post from years past where I wrote anything like this after 9 days of free agency. This has been the worst year in years with people complaining. More bickering on every side. It's not there's an m.o. for Monti or JG at their respective new jobs. We know absolutely nothing about how they will perform as GM & HC.
It’s been difficult to read around here lately.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,322
Reaction score
3,988
Location
Monroe NC
The narrative about Murphy's injury history has grown substantially since he wasn't re-signed. He had missed 1 game in his career before last year. I know back injuries can be tricky, but there's nothing out there that states that he has a long-term issue.
Unless there was something from team doctors that said his injury could be a a reoccurring thing that could inhibit his availability. I don't recall ever seeing anything that explained exactly what type of injury his suffered to his back. Maybe someone else here has heard something or has read something that sheds some light on this.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,680
Reaction score
13,259
Location
Modesto, California
Right. Just ignore the person spreading the lie about you and let it stand. Good plan lol
I do it often... when it becomes obvious to me that its an argument, not a discussion...when the desired outcome is victory instead of exchanging ideas...
I switch into "yeah **** that guy" mode and move on to something else.
It has zero effect on me if some dude a thousand miles away struts around his house with his chest pushed out because he " beat" me.
Its just the internet. Nobody on here is real.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,381
Reaction score
21,301
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
I do it often... when it becomes obvious to me that its an argument, not a discussion...when the desired outcome is victory instead of exchanging ideas...
I switch into "yeah **** that guy" mode and move on to something else.
It has zero effect on me if some dude a thousand miles away struts around his house with his chest pushed out because he " beat" me.
Its just the internet. Nobody on here is real.
You must be registered for see images attach
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,878
Reaction score
53,033
Location
SoCal
are you a wife?

you are wrong but I just dont want to take the time to prove it...

could swear I have heard that before!
Nope, just someone with a job and a family and friends and a life who gets too deep into stupid arguments about the cardinals with people that often have zero impact on my life and I realize it before I throw good time after bad.

Also, the board is full of taking shots at women today.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,878
Reaction score
53,033
Location
SoCal
concept: Disengage
I do eventually (see the “not doing research” concept above). But it’s difficult when the argument centers around someone lying about what you stated. That’s pretty personal, no?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,878
Reaction score
53,033
Location
SoCal
I do it often... when it becomes obvious to me that its an argument, not a discussion...when the desired outcome is victory instead of exchanging ideas...
I switch into "yeah **** that guy" mode and move on to something else.
It has zero effect on me if some dude a thousand miles away struts around his house with his chest pushed out because he " beat" me.
Its just the internet. Nobody on here is real.
I am 100% making an “I defeated oaken1 on the internet today” T-shirt.
 

WisconsinCard

Herfin BIg Time
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Posts
15,492
Reaction score
6,646
Location
In A Cigar Bar Near You
Right. Just ignore the person spreading the lie about you and let it stand. Good plan lol
You can do what I did to you. I simply stated "that isn't remotely close to what I said". Simple, and lets everyone know that that is not what was said. You two need to take a break from each other. Lets get back to football. I can't wait until the draft so we have some new stuff to rattle on about.

With that said I'll get it started. I will be disappointed if we don't somehow land Will Anderson. Hopefully we can trade back to 4, but if not I don't think I am passing on this dude. Carter seems to be falling apart at the seams, and we're in no position to take a risk like that.
 
Last edited:

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,245
Reaction score
37,610
Location
UK
If the FO really wanted to tear this thing down and tank this year, they could have

Restructured Budda's contract if they plan on keeping him or trade him if they don't
Cut Gardeck
Cut Fotu
Not re-signed Zeke Turner
Signed a rookie kicker instead of Prater
Signed an UDFA WR instead of signing Paschal
Not given Will Hernandez a 4x raise and play Smith or Hayes at RG
Not re-signed Beachum and play Jones at RT
Lowered their asking price for Hopkins like the Rams did with Ramsey
Not signed Kyzir White

That would give them enough space to cut Conner and absorb the cap hits of Hudson and Watt this year while allowing them to sign minimum priced replacements. Ertz could then be dealt with when he returns from injury. It's not what I would want to happen, but it could have been done.

Now will you please stop making the same post about Conner and Ertz dozens of times? It is derailing a bunch of threads. Thank you.

Lot's of nonsense in here so let's get to it. There seems to be an underlying these here that we could not sign cheap vets and just sign UDFA's instead. We only have 62 guys right now. We already need 28 more.

Restructure Budda how? He's already earning $17m this year and $18m next year and then he's FA. He's got no G's left. How do you restructure that and to what aim?

Leki Fotu saves $1m. Costs $1m to replace. Why?

Why not signed Zeke Turner? He on a vet min deal. He's very good on ST's. You don't sign him you need someone else on the same money.

Rookie kickers suck. He's on a 2 year deal and they want to make a push in 2024.

Pascal is on a cheap deal. Again for 2 years. They want depth in 2024.

Hernandez's deal is good value. He's on a 3 year deal and they need players after 2023.

Jones might play RT. Beachum's deal is good value and he's a great swing backup at worst. Again, 2 year deal so we have depth in 2024.

There are MONTH's remaining to move Hopkins. Why does everything have to be done in week 1 of FA? Why rush and take less when there is no need to rush? You will get better value at the trade deadline.

Again, Kyzir White is good value. It's a 2 year deal. They need players that know the scheme and another starting LB for 4-3.

The only fair point you have is Dennis Gardeck and I expect him to get cut post draft. Probably post camp. It's why they brought guys in like Josh Woods on vet min deals. To try to replace him. But they want to see them in camp first.

There's only so much money you can carry over. "Tearing it down" isn't putting out a team of UDFA's and scrubs so you need a whole new 53 in 2024. They are trying to get some key starters at good value like Hernandez and White while adding some better depth like Pascal, Froholdt etc. Baring any major moves they will likely have $100m+ cap space in 2024 which is more than enough. I doubt they will spend that so why not sign these players this year?

As I've explained a hundred times cutting Conner and Ertz makes zero difference to next years cap. The June 1st designations make zero difference to next years cap.

I'll stop mentioning it when people who have no clue keep bringing it up as if it's a realistic thing that should happen.
 
Last edited:

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,245
Reaction score
37,610
Location
UK
Connor and Ertz are not part of the long term plan here and the Cardinals are clearly aiming for 2024-2025 so there is absolutely no reason to keep either. Go find other guys either through draft or next waves of FA and not water time with Connor and Ertz.

I don’t pretend to understand all the cap stuff but honestly don’t care. The Cardinals cap people can figure it out. I want players getting ramped up this year for the following years since I believe this upcoming season is gonna be a washout.

Understand this. Cutting them loses money this year and next year so why do it?
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,245
Reaction score
37,610
Location
UK
That’s not true. Just because someone doesn’t want to take the time to research why you’re wrong doesn’t mean you’re right. It just means they haven’t proven you wrong. There’s a world of difference between those two things.

This is PEAK ASFN garbage.

"You're not right, but I can't be bothered to show how or why that's the case. I can however be bother to write 20 posts arguing that you are not right when it would take me a 10th of the time to actually do some research. But that might show that you are right, so I'd rather just argue".

I'm right. I know I'm right. Until someone can be bothered to show otherwise why don't y'all be quiet?
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,381
Reaction score
21,301
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
You can do what I did to you. I simply stated "that isn't remotely close to what I said". Simple, and lets everyone know that that is not what was said. You two need to take a break from each other. Lets get back to football. I can't wait until the draft so we have some new stuff to rattle on about.

With that said I'll get it started. I will be disappointed if we don't somehow land Will Anderson. Hopefully we can trade back to 4, but if not I don't think I am passing on this dude. Carter seems to be falling apart at the seams, and we're in no position to take a risk like that.
Agreed!
 

Dayman

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
5,958
Reaction score
7,255
Location
Portland, Oregon
Lot's of nonsense in here so let's get to it. There seems to be an underlying these here that we could not sign cheap vets and just sign UDFA's instead. We only have 62 guys right now. We already need 28 more.

Restructure Budda how? He's already earning $17m this year and $18m next year and then he's FA. He's got no G's left. How do you restructure that and to what aim?

Leki Fotu saves $1m. Costs $1m to replace. Why?

Why not signed Zeke Turner? He on a vet min deal. He's very good on ST's. You don't sign him you need someone else on the same money.

Rookie kickers suck. He's on a 2 year deal and they want to make a push in 2024.

Pascal is on a cheap deal. Again for 2 years. They want depth in 2024.

Hernandez's deal is good value. He's on a 3 year deal and they need players after 2023.

Jones might play RT. Beachum's deal is good value and he's a great swing backup at worst. Again, 2 year deal so we have depth in 2024.

There are MONTH's remaining to move Hopkins. Why does everything have to be done in week 1 of FA? Why rush and take less when there is no need to rush? You will get better value at the trade deadline.

Again, Kyzir White is good value. It's a 2 year deal. They need players that know the scheme and another starting LB for 4-3.

The only fair point you have is Dennis Gardeck and I expect him to get cut post draft. Probably post camp. It's why they brought guys in like Josh Woods on vet min deals. To try to replace him. But they want to see them in camp first.

There's only so much money you can carry over. "Tearing it down" isn't putting out a team of UDFA's and scrubs so you need a whole new 53 in 2024. They are trying to get some key starters at good value like Hernandez and White while adding some better depth like Pascal, Froholdt etc. Baring any major moves they will likely have $100m+ cap space in 2024 which is more than enough. I doubt they will spend that so why not sign these players this year?

As I've explained a hundred times cutting Conner and Ertz makes zero difference to next years cap. The June 1st designations make zero difference to next years cap.

I'll stop mentioning it when people who have no clue keep bringing it up as if it's a realistic thing that should happen.
So now everything has to fit into your personal definition of a tear down/rebuild? You said there was no way to clear the cap this year. I showed you how. Now you are saying that they needed to take up nearly 4 million in cap room for Prater because rookie kickers suck? You are just moving the goal posts once again.

Also, two weeks ago you were constantly trying to tell people that cutting a player pre June 1 doesn't accelerate their dead cap hits into the current year. Last week you claimed that Bidwill has nothing to do with the cap. Now you are arguing that you can't restructure Budda because he doesn't have any guaranteed money left? You do realize that restructuring means converting salary to guarantees to spread out the cap hit, right?

Maybe it's time to admit that you are not the resident board capologist and stop trying to correct people all the time.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,184
Reaction score
7,339
Location
North of the 49th.
Lot's of nonsense in here so let's get to it. There seems to be an underlying these here that we could not sign cheap vets and just sign UDFA's instead. We only have 62 guys right now. We already need 28 more.

Restructure Budda how? He's already earning $17m this year and $18m next year and then he's FA. He's got no G's left. How do you restructure that and to what aim?

Leki Fotu saves $1m. Costs $1m to replace. Why?

Why not signed Zeke Turner? He on a vet min deal. He's very good on ST's. You don't sign him you need someone else on the same money.

Rookie kickers suck. He's on a 2 year deal and they want to make a push in 2024.

Pascal is on a cheap deal. Again for 2 years. They want depth in 2024.

Hernandez's deal is good value. He's on a 3 year deal and they need players after 2023.

Jones might play RT. Beachum's deal is good value and he's a great swing backup at worst. Again, 2 year deal so we have depth in 2024.

There are MONTH's remaining to move Hopkins. Why does everything have to be done in week 1 of FA? Why rush and take less when there is no need to rush? You will get better value at the trade deadline.

Again, Kyzir White is good value. It's a 2 year deal. They need players that know the scheme and another starting LB for 4-3.

The only fair point you have is Dennis Gardeck and I expect him to get cut post draft. Probably post camp. It's why they brought guys in like Josh Woods on vet min deals. To try to replace him. But they want to see them in camp first.

There's only so much money you can carry over. "Tearing it down" isn't putting out a team of UDFA's and scrubs so you need a whole new 53 in 2024. They are trying to get some key starters at good value like Hernandez and White while adding some better depth like Pascal, Froholdt etc. Baring any major moves they will likely have $100m+ cap space in 2024 which is more than enough. I doubt they will spend that so why not sign these players this year?

As I've explained a hundred times cutting Conner and Ertz makes zero difference to next years cap. The June 1st designations make zero difference to next years cap.

I'll stop mentioning it when people who have no clue keep bringing it up as if it's a realistic thing that should happen.

A base salary restructure for BUDDA adds $6m to the 2023 available Cap.

A base salary restructure for ERTZ adds $4m to the 2023 available Cap.

A base salary restructure for CONNER adds $2.7m to the 2023 available Cap.

A base salary restructure for HUMPHRIES adds $3m to the 2023 available Cap.

A base salary restructure for DHOP adds $9m to the 2023 available Cap.
 
Last edited:

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,381
Reaction score
21,301
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Did GANNON add that he'll advise MONTI not to draft a centre in the upcoming draft?

(I didn't think so.)
Indeed, it was likely a smokescreen, or meant to buoy the players on the roster, or perhaps even both. I'm not willing to dub the new regime idiotic (deciding C is a secure position) at this point lol
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,381
Reaction score
21,301
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
So now everything has to fit into your personal definition of a tear down/rebuild? You said there was no way to clear the cap this year. I showed you how. Now you are saying that they needed to take up nearly 4 million in cap room for Prater because rookie kickers suck? You are just moving the goal posts once again.

Also, two weeks ago you were constantly trying to tell people that cutting a player pre June 1 doesn't accelerate their dead cap hits into the current year. Last week you claimed that Bidwill has nothing to do with the cap. Now you are arguing that you can't restructure Budda because he doesn't have any guaranteed money left? You do realize that restructuring means converting salary to guarantees to spread out the cap hit, right?

Maybe it's time to admit that you are not the resident board capologist and stop trying to correct people all the time.
Forget it, man. If you don't convince him with your argument--and you won't, because nobody does--he will simply crow he is unconditionally right and you are unconditionally wrong. That is his way.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,184
Reaction score
7,339
Location
North of the 49th.
Indeed, it was likely a smokescreen, or meant to buoy the players on the roster, or perhaps even both. I'm not willing to dub the new regime idiotic (deciding C is a secure position) at this point lol

One thing can be said if Lecitus Smith is transitioned to the position; he held up well at Right Guard against Aaron Donald.

And I'm reminded that Jason Kelce was once a 6th round pick.
 
Top