Maye or May Not

Harry

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As promised, I’ve warned QB selection is not my strongest area. That is not to say I’ve never been right, rather I been way wrong a few times. On a Murray thread I indicated Maye was not viewed by all as a “slam dunk” by all. I was asked to indicate why. This is a collection of personal evaluations with some inserts from other analysts whose opinion I value. Maye can always save this to read at his Hall of Fame induction.

He can stand on the goal line and throw a football into a peach basket sitting on the 50 yard line. He will test great at his Pro Day. He can throw the tree. When the season started there were 2 great QBs, Williams & Maye. Williams was a great 2 way threat and generally viewed the better prospect. Maye was viewed as the more traditional pocket passer, who was reasonably mobile.

NC started the season with 6 wins and looked like a conference title contender. Then they suffered 2 close losses to weak teams. They beat Campbell. They beat an undermanned Duke, then lost 2 games badly. It’s true that all those losses aren’t fully on Maye, but he wasn’t able to carry his team to upsets.

So why not? Teams figured out Maye. He is too easily confused by defenses. He would struggle against the Cards because they use the tactic that he struggles to handle. They show one defense then as soon as the line sets, they morph into a different pattern. Maye apparently is not agile enough at reading defenses to avoid confusion. He doesn’t throw many interceptions, but this causes some head scratchers.

He will get impatient and try to force a pass when his first read isn’t open. He doesn’t have a great clock in his head and can hold the ball too long. Finally he’s only marginally effective when throwing out of the pocket.

Every QB is a gamble. He’ll likely be the second QB off the board. I just don’t think he’s a sure thing. If the Cards had no QB, I’d take him. However, I don’t think he’s a better bet than Murray.
 

Garthshort

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About QB's, you just don't know. Look at the most recent draft. The #1 QB taken might turn out to be the fourth best in that Draft. And I know it's early. That is why I'm pretty sure the Cardinals will stay with KM.
 

Fitz4Ever

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I think the chances of us drafting Maye and trading Murray were always slim. I think they actually improved today. If we miss out on MHJ and Maye is somehow there at #4, he is the BPA...and it might be too much to pass up. With MHJ you would need to keep Murray. Only other choice is Alt.
 

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I was wanting to draft Maye along with @Chopper0080

But after seeing KM today I'm willing to ride with him next year and build the trenches
Agree after today KM will get one more year. MO needs to knock FA and draft out of the park and this team can contend for playoffs next year. Improve both lines of scrimmage with more emphasis on the interior D Line and offensive LG. Need a legit WR1, and solid WR2, pass rusher and CB. I want JG to continue to build this team into a tough physical group. Even when the Cards lose, i want their opponents to feel the effects of playing Az into the following week
 

ajcardfan

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I watched a handful of UNC games trying to catch the excitement and hype over this kid. I didn't. In fact, I thought he's over hyped. He doesn't seem to be a quick thinker. But he can sure look the part here and there.

He may be good. He might not. But no way in hell do I use a top 5 pick on him.
 

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I read an article from a scout that says maye is a “bottom tier nfl starter” says his ball placement sucked this year and maye gets confused when the defense changes at the snap.
 

Russ Smith

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I watched a handful of UNC games trying to catch the excitement and hype over this kid. I didn't. In fact, I thought he's over hyped. He doesn't seem to be a quick thinker. But he can sure look the part here and there.

He may be good. He might not. But no way in hell do I use a top 5 pick on him.


the knock on Kyler has been reading defenses and throwing guys open, he has to trust they're open or he won't throw it. You saw today why on the picksix he trusted the young WR, who apparently went the wrong way.

If you watch Maye play I assume that's what Harry is talking about, he does two things that drive me nuts, won't throw unless someone is WIDE open, and then he'll miss high quite a bit.
 

WisconsinCard

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I was wanting to draft Maye along with @Chopper0080

But after seeing KM today I'm willing to ride with him next year and build the trenches
One game changed your mind? After 5 years of evidence I beg to differ.

Today was a good game K1 did make a couple of throws on time and let it go as receivers were coming out of their breaks. That's good to see, I said earlier I give him another year because coming off of a major knee injury it is usually the second season back when players get back to 100%.

All that said I never really thought Kyler wasn't going to be our QB next season. If he still sucks then we'll be in about the same boat as we're in now and will still be picking top 5.
 

Garthshort

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One game changed your mind? After 5 years of evidence I beg to differ.

Today was a good game K1 did make a couple of throws on time and let it go as receivers were coming out of their breaks. That's good to see, I said earlier I give him another year because coming off of a major knee injury it is usually the second season back when players get back to 100%.

All that said I never really thought Kyler wasn't going to be our QB next season. If he still sucks then we'll be in about the same boat as we're in now and will still be picking top 5.
Nice try. We have an talent needy team that KM almost finished .500 with, and you say he sucks. I disagree.
 

BullheadCardFan

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One game changed your mind? After 5 years of evidence I beg to differ.

Today was a good game K1 did make a couple of throws on time and let it go as receivers were coming out of their breaks. That's good to see, I said earlier I give him another year because coming off of a major knee injury it is usually the second season back when players get back to 100%.

All that said I never really thought Kyler wasn't going to be our QB next season. If he still sucks then we'll be in about the same boat as we're in now and will still be picking top 5.
Yes I was on the fence about him because I'm not sold on Maye being that good

I still wouldn't mind MO drafting a QB in round 2-3 for insurance
 

WisconsinCard

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Nice try. We have an talent needy team that KM almost finished .500 with, and you say he sucks. I disagree.
I guess I don't get what you're saying. I'm not looking for a participation trophy here. It's my opinion it's not a try. Nobody would disagree what you said about being "talent needy". I judging it on 5 years of watching every game not the 5 or 6 games he's played this year.

I'm on record of saying that IMHO, Kyler will never win a playoff game in a Cardinals uniform. So I would love to be wrong and I can promise you I would attend every one if them that I possibly could. I just retired.
 

Garthshort

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Thanks, and I hope you have a very happy retirement. I retired in 2000. Just a word of caution. When I retired and thinking I would have a lot of time on my hands, I told my wife that I would do the dishes. A bad decision that I'm still paying for. And maybe the reason that I'm not critical of the team's poor draft picks.
 

ajcardfan

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Yes I was on the fence about him because I'm not sold on Maye being that good

I still wouldn't mind MO drafting a QB in round 2-3 for insurance
By all means, let's draft the next Clayton Tune!
 

WisconsinCard

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Thanks, and I hope you have a very happy retirement. I retired in 2000. Just a word of caution. When I retired and thinking I would have a lot of time on my hands, I told my wife that I would do the dishes. A bad decision that I'm still paying for. And maybe the reason that I'm not critical of the team's poor draft picks.
I don't do dishes... :biglaugh:
 

PACardsFan

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Agreed but his performance today sure made me feel a lot better.
Look, I understand that this is a football forum, and people want to express their opinions. But, time and time again, both JG & Petzing have ALWAYS referred to Murray as their franchise QB. I understand coach speak, but more times than not, words do mean something. I’ve always said that this year, as it pertained to Kyler, was simply an opportunity to learn the offense, and to get comfortable with Petzing and players he hadn’t played with before. IMO, it’s silly not to think that the Cardinals have ALWAYS known what they had in Kyler. The very good, the in between, and what he still had to learn. Because, in reality, I don’t think he was ever taught how to read what a defense was doing to him. Not in HS, not in college, and certainly not under KK. He’s still learning, and now he’ll have the entire offseason to continue that learning process.
 

ajcardfan

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Look, I understand that this is a football forum, and people want to express their opinions. But, time and time again, both JG & Petzing have ALWAYS referred to Murray as their franchise QB. I understand coach speak, but more times than not, words do mean something. I’ve always said that this year, as it pertained to Kyler, was simply an opportunity to learn the offense, and to get comfortable with Petzing and players he hadn’t played with before. IMO, it’s silly not to think that the Cardinals have ALWAYS known what they had in Kyler. The very good, the in between, and what he still had to learn. Because, in reality, I don’t think he was ever taught how to read what a defense was doing to him. Not in HS, not in college, and certainly not under KK. He’s still learning, and now he’ll have the entire offseason to continue that learning process.
I agree. But IF there was ANY doubt, when Gannon went to Kyler just before we got the ball with 2:30 left and said "Go win this", and then KM led a drive that won it, in Philly, I am sure that erased all doubt for next year.

But, personally, with no evidence to back me up at all, I believe it was set when Monti took the job that Kyler had at least two years
 

PJ1

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Look, I understand that this is a football forum, and people want to express their opinions. But, time and time again, both JG & Petzing have ALWAYS referred to Murray as their franchise QB. I understand coach speak, but more times than not, words do mean something. I’ve always said that this year, as it pertained to Kyler, was simply an opportunity to learn the offense, and to get comfortable with Petzing and players he hadn’t played with before. IMO, it’s silly not to think that the Cardinals have ALWAYS known what they had in Kyler. The very good, the in between, and what he still had to learn. Because, in reality, I don’t think he was ever taught how to read what a defense was doing to him. Not in HS, not in college, and certainly not under KK. He’s still learning, and now he’ll have the entire offseason to continue that learning process.
You understand this is a football forum and people want to express their opinion but then you post yours as if it is fact. You have no idea what the coaching staff thinks of KM. JG said some nice things about Simmons. The fact that people were/are concerned about KM being the guy is hardly some crazy view without any substance. He played a strong game yesterday and dealt well with the ups and downs of the game like a leader of the offense should. Again this made me feel much better about him going forward. Hope it continues because I am a Cardinal fan. Not pro or anti KM.
 

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