Kolb will finish the season strong

[Arizona's Finest]

....and give us all great hope going into 2012.

The foot injury allowed him to sit on the sidelines and watch another QB play. Saw he needed to be more sure in the pocket and its going to translate to solid play going forward.

Dude didn't have an offseason so this past 3 weeks where he could be at practice, study tape, and be a team guy is going to do wonders for him. And then he will have the full offseason he needs and go into 2012 playing well.

Book it.

I don't know why so many people are so against Kolb succeeding but for some reason the masochists of the fan base are. Oh well I guess. Like I told K9 a couple weeks back, there is enough to seen that shows he can make plays (getting Larry deep multiple times is one of them) and once he feels more confident in the protection, he will settle down in the pocket, his biggest problem right now.

Just like everyone was ready to write off Horton and the defense 4 games ago(there were posters flipping out, people who had avatars saying lets fire Horton, Horton is an idiot, etc) and all those people look foolish now as all they needed was......time. And reps.

Just like the same guys who were calling for Skelton becuase he went 2-0 against bad teams and looked average in both. Look how that worked out in SF. Sweet call there too.

Just because it isn't happening on your schedule, doesn't mean it wont happen. Don't be so quick to write off Kolb. Provided he starts this weekend, I think we are getting the guy we all wanted this past offseason for the rest of the season.

 

[Joe L]

That's what I'm hoping for. Not sure if he'll finish strong, but I'm rooting for him to succeed.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I am rooting for him for him, and have not written him off as you say. I just say he's not a rookie so to compare him to one is flawed logic. I dont think anybody is rooting against him because their some kind of masochist, they just believe it what they have seen for 5 years.

I still say you have to give the FO, Whiz, and the Bidwills props for at least trying to address the problems of last year. Our QB play last year was the worse I've seen in many years. I will always root for anybody that has a cardinal jersey on no matter who it is.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

the no offseason excuse it very tiresome and flimsy...There are rookie QBs playing head and shoulders above him...

Kolb is not a good QB...

 

[Arizona's Finest]

the no offseason excuse it very tiresome and flimsy...There are rookie QBs playing head and shoulders above him...

Kolb is not a good QB...

You referring to Cam and Andy? Because both players play has fallen of considerably and both OC's have noted they are playing in pared down simplistic one read offenses.

I love Wiz but one of his biggest problems is he can't or won't pare down his complex offense. Hell it took Kurt Warner 2 seasons to get it down. You think that's a coincidence?

One read John Skeleton hasnt been able to get it down in 2 seasons now either. Trying to evaluate Kolb thus far is silly. if we are having this conversation next year it might not be time for the QB to go then either.

It might have to be the HC who for all his positives, seems to be rather inflexible.

 

[Stout]

AF, I'm sorry, but you took what could have been a positive post moving forward and turned it into a whine fest. So, basically, those of us that have been overwhelmingly JUSTIFIED in ripping Kolb are just whiners that WANT him to fail? I mean, I understand that you're a Kolb homer, but that is a flat-out LIE. I think everyone here would have been tickled pink to see him succeed. I hated the terms of the trade, but I managed to talk myself into being pumped up for the season and being optimistic about Kolb.

The system hasn't been the problem...not by a mile. Had Kolb been hanging in the pocket but still unable to find his reads and figure out where the ball needed to go, sure, I could have called it the system. When he runs around like a high school moron without the slightest clue as to how an NFL QB actually should behave in the pocket, then I call that a complete and utter lack of pocket awareness, and not a failure to learn the system.

But hey, all of our lives as Cards fans would be much, much easier and hopeful if he could manage to come back in this last part of the season and give us hope for next year. I'd do a back flip if that were the case. I really hope he does. Do I have faith, right now, that he can do it? No, why should I. He sucked and was a gutless wonder at the position, and he hasn't been taking practice reps, so why should I expect him to have changed so radically? Again, if it was a system problem, some learning time might have done him some good. The problem is that he doesn't even have a fraction of the instincts needed to be a successful NFL starting QB. Or, if he does, he sure in the heck hasn't shown it.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

AF, I'm sorry, but you took what could have been a positive post moving forward and turned it into a whine fest. So, basically, those of us that have been overwhelmingly JUSTIFIED in ripping Kolb are just whiners that WANT him to fail? I mean, I understand that you're a Kolb homer, but that is a flat-out LIE. I think everyone here would have been tickled pink to see him succeed. I hated the terms of the trade, but I managed to talk myself into being pumped up for the season and being optimistic about Kolb.

The system hasn't been the problem...not by a mile. Had Kolb been hanging in the pocket but still unable to find his reads and figure out where the ball needed to go, sure, I could have called it the system. When he runs around like a high school moron without the slightest clue as to how an NFL QB actually should behave in the pocket, then I call that a complete and utter lack of pocket awareness, and not a failure to learn the system.

But hey, all of our lives as Cards fans would be much, much easier and hopeful if he could manage to come back in this last part of the season and give us hope for next year. I'd do a back flip if that were the case. I really hope he
does. Do I have faith, right now, that he can do it? No, why should I. He sucked and was a gutless wonder at the position, and he hasn't been taking practice reps, so why should I expect him to have changed so radically? Again, if it was a system problem, some learning time might have done him
some good. The problem is that he doesn't even have a fraction of the instincts needed to be a successful NFL starting QB. Or, if he does, he sure in the heck hasn't shown it.

I disagree Stout. There have been drives and specific plays where he looks like a Pro Bowler and then a lot times where he looks lost and maybe even scared. that wasn't really something I saw while in Philly with him. To me he lacks confidence in where he is going with the ball and in his tackles. I forget the game but do you remember the pass to Housler down the seam he missed about 5 games back? To me if you are comfortable in the offense that's not going to happen. He went to the right player but he just missed on the timing.

Conversely Skeleton was making bad reads and forcing the ball when their were better options available, even when they were going 2-0.

When Kolb has had time, he has made good plays. He also has held the ball too long in certain situations, but that's a timing thing too.

I get agitated how the NFL by nature is SO week to week in terms of perception. With Kolb he has ALOT of good physical attributes and has the mental part down of being the QB of a team. That much was seen the last three weeks IMO.

Now it's timing and comfortabilty with the offense. And a couple new tackles.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think if healthy, he has his best game as a Cardinal this week. I think sitting and regrouping is the best thing that could have happened to him.

I'm not whining. I'm saying others were too quick to write off Horton and say " Skeleton should be the man" but now look at both of those statements? Time has proved those to be false premisses.

I think many are doing the same with Kolb. Time will tell.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

And there have been people from the beginning who thought we overspent on Kolb and been killing the deal, and love that he is struggling so that they are right.

I'm thinking it's premature to write him off and while it's JUSTIFIED to be disappointed in his play thus far, it's far from time to say he sucks and never will be good.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I like Kolb and hope he succeeds, but regardless of how well he does, I still hope that if a good QB is sitting there in rounds 2-4 as BPA, we pick them up.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Did anyone hear the announcers this past Sunday? They were talking about how they met with SF DC Vic Fangio that week and said " are you going to design something complex to confuse the 2nd year player (skeleton)?" and Fangio said frankly " I don't see need. He locks on too 1 WR every play (sic)."

I was saying that two weeks ago when everyone was trying to say Skeleton was better then Kolb and should be the guy and why did we trade for him.

Trust me Kolbs problems are correctable. Its not physical and its not mental.

Its time plain and simple.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I like Kolb and hope he succeeds, but regardless of how well he does, I still hope that if a good QB is sitting there in rounds 2-4 as BPA, we pick them up.

I don't disagree with this. And even though I have faith in Kolb, I would trade whatever needed to get Luck or Barkley.

I would take Nick Foles in the 4th too.

 

[john h]

....and give us all great hope going into 2012.

The foot injury allowed him to sit on the sidelines and watch another QB play. Saw he needed to be more sure in the pocket and its going to translate to solid play going forward.

Dude didn't have an offseason so this past 3 weeks where he could be at practice, study tape, and be a team guy is going to do wonders for him. And then he will have the full offseason he needs and go into 2012 playing well.

I think most of the posters would like for Kolb to succeed. We would like to see anyone of our QB/s become our QB for years to come. The problem is they have not demonstrated the ability to do that as of yet. At the same time some first year rookies are starting in the NFL and are already making it. If we continue more of the same for the rest of the year then what do we do? Give him another year or two years? If he plays next year he will become eligible to make up to 62 million dollars. I don't think these owners are going to make that gamble. Sometimes you have to recognize you made a mistake and move on. Here is hoping he makes it. He is no rookie and has been in the league for around 5 years so experience is not that big a factor. Performance is.

 

[john h]

I am rooting for him for him, and have not written him off as you say. I just say he's not a rookie so to compare him to one is flawed logic. I dont think anybody is rooting against him because their some kind of masochist, they just believe it what they have seen for 5 years.

I still say you have to give the FO, Whiz, and the Bidwills props for at least trying to address the problems of last year. Our QB play last year was the worse I've seen in many years. I will always root for anybody that has a cardinal jersey on no matter who it is.

I do not think last year was any worse than this year. The first half of Skelton's last game was the worst half of offensive football I have ever seen. I think we had a total of 28 yds total in offense and I do not recall how many interceptions and fumbles.

 

[john h]

AF, I'm sorry, but you took what could have been a positive post moving forward and turned it into a whine fest. So, basically, those of us that have been overwhelmingly JUSTIFIED in ripping Kolb are just whiners that WANT him to fail? I mean, I understand that you're a Kolb homer, but that is a flat-out LIE. I think everyone here would have been tickled pink to see him succeed. I hated the terms of the trade, but I managed to talk myself into being pumped up for the season and being optimistic about Kolb.

The system hasn't been the problem...not by a mile. Had Kolb been hanging in the pocket but still unable to find his reads and figure out where the ball needed to go, sure, I could have called it the system. When he runs around like a high school moron without the slightest clue as to how an NFL QB actually should behave in the pocket, then I call that a complete and utter lack of pocket awareness, and not a failure to learn the system.

But hey, all of our lives as Cards fans would be much, much easier and hopeful if he could manage to come back in this last part of the season and give us hope for next year. I'd do a back flip if that were the case. I really hope he does. Do I have faith, right now, that he can do it? No, why should I. He sucked and was a gutless wonder at the position, and he hasn't been taking practice reps, so why should I expect him to have changed so radically? Again, if it was a system problem, some learning time might have done him some good. The problem is that he doesn't even have a fraction of the instincts needed to be a successful NFL starting QB. Or, if he does, he sure in the heck hasn't shown it.

Newton already looks like he has been in the NL for ten years. Kolb not being able to stay in the pocket is a real problem. Coaching is not necessarily the problem with that. I am sure the coaches have told him that many time. Andy Reid is no dummy and he saw a lot of him for a couple of years. Why was he so quick to get rid of him? Why were we so anxious to give the farm away for him?

 

[Duckjake]

Did anyone hear the announcers this past Sunday? They were talking about how they met with SF DC Vic Fangio that week and said " are you going to design something complex to confuse the 2nd year player (skeleton)?" and Fangio said frankly " I don't see need. He locks on too 1 WR every play (sic)."

I was saying that two weeks ago when everyone was trying to say Skeleton was better then Kolb and should be the guy and why did we trade for him.

Trust me Kolbs problems are correctable. Its not physical and its not mental.

Its time plain and simple.

John Skelton is a Cardinal why are you reveling in his failure last week?

Trust me Kolb's problems are not correctable any more that Leinart's were. KK is nothing but a 2nd tier NFL QB who should be backing up a real NFL QB somewhere. That this is true just makes me sick because I hate to see yet another Cardinal QB fail so miserably especially when it means another 2-3 years of 5-11.

 

[Phrazbit]

If Kolb's problems are neither physical or mental then one can only conclude that his problem is that he sucks.

And I cant believe you are using the Housler play to defend him... if that had happened ONCE I might see your point, but the fact that one week later he made an even worse throw in the exact same situation says that Kolb is just a crappy player and he does not learn from his mistakes.

As others have said, his problems are not "system" problems. There are ZERO systems in the NFL that would work with a QB playing the style Kolb has. And despite your claims, Kolb is the same player here that he was in Philly, taking bad sacks, committing a lot of turnovers and losing winnable games.

I would have been THRILLED if he had worked out despite being against the trade originally. Just like I was thrilled when Warner became a star despite not being thrilled about bringing in a fumble machine. But even Warner showed a lot of talent before he blossomed... and he basically came through the instant he played with Whiz. Kolb on the other hand has shown that he is exactly what his stats reflect, a lousy player.

 

[WildBB]

Did anyone hear the announcers this past Sunday? They were talking about how they met with SF DC Vic Fangio that week and said " are you going to design something complex to confuse the 2nd year player (skeleton)?" and Fangio said frankly " I don't see need. He locks on too 1 WR every play (sic)."

I was saying that two weeks ago when everyone was trying to say Skeleton was better then Kolb and should be the guy and why did we trade for him.

Trust me Kolbs problems are correctable. Its not physical and its not mental.

Its time plain and simple.

I think you're also dismissing Skelton too easily. Sure he locks in at times as does Kolb, but to say every play is by far exaggerating. When we were playing in Philly the announcers there even said Skelton isn't locking in he's surveying the area and picking a target. He's just making reads quicker. Kolb has held on too long many times.
I'm hoping for better things to come from Kolb still, and hope against hope he'll prove the FO and LF right yet. He's got to hang tougher though. He has at times then gone happy feet again.

 

[SunDevil]

the no offseason excuse it very tiresome and flimsy...There are rookie QBs playing head and shoulders above him...

Kolb is not a good QB...

The rookie QBs you are referring to all had playbooks since April; Kolb got his in August...

That's a pretty significant difference..

SD

 

[artp]

I just see that Skelton seems so much more comfortable in the pocket, with the same OL as Kolb. Some QB's never get over that. I hope Kolb does, because I see nothing about Skelton that looks like a Playoff caliber QB.

 

[kerouac9]

The rookie QBs you are referring to all had playbooks since April; Kolb got his in August...

That's a pretty significant difference..

SD

April when the Lockout was in full effect? C'mon now. Don't think that Larry gave Kolb a peek at our playbook? Do you really thinking that seeing the playbook of an opposing team is that great of an advantage (or disadvantage)? You can see old NFL teams' playbooks on the internet. It's not about the individual plays or even the language; not in this offense. It's about making the correct keys and working on your timing with your targets.

I'm not sure how AZF can say that the last three weeks (when Kolb was inactive) proved that Kolb has what it takes to be an NFL QB. That doesn't mean anything at all. And AZF certainly can't explain how Kolb got worse every game as the season wore on. Nor can he explain how it's damning on John Skelton to go 2-0 against mediocre teams, but it's perfectly all right that Kolb look awful against Washington, Minnesota, New York, and Seattle.

The only thing good about the prospect of Kolb falling on his face Sunday is that it might drive AZF off the board for another eleven weeks with his talk of how much Kolb reminds him of Aaron Rodgers.

 

[TJ]

If Kolb's problems are neither physical or mental then one can only conclude that his problem is that he sucks.

And I cant believe you are using the Housler play to defend him... if that had happened ONCE I might see your point, but the fact that one week later he made an even worse throw in the exact same situation says that Kolb is just a crappy player and he does not learn from his mistakes.

As others have said, his problems are not "system" problems. There are ZERO systems in the NFL that would work with a QB playing the style Kolb has. And despite your claims, Kolb is the same player here that he was in Philly, taking bad sacks, committing a lot of turnovers and losing winnable games.

I would have been THRILLED if he had worked out despite being against the trade originally. Just like I was thrilled when Warner became a star despite not being thrilled about bringing in a fumble machine. But even Warner showed a lot of talent before he blossomed... and he basically came through the instant he played with Whiz. Kolb on the other hand has shown that he is exactly what his stats reflect, a lousy player.

Ok, so you were patient about Warner developing into a star after being irrelevant for 5 or so years after St. Louis, but are quick to write off Kolb after being in the offense for less than 3 months? That makes little sense.

You expected instant ROI and didnt get it. Fine, but you sound as if you have already given up on Kolb, which IMO is utterly ridiculous given the circumstances. If you have ever played a down of football past high school or have coached offense in college or the pros, you would know that the QB position is not plug-and-play, like in video games. A QB takes time to develop and learn the offensive scheme. Kolb is coming from one complex scheme, having to unlearn everything about said complex scheme, and adapting to another complex scheme. It's like saying I'm changing my college major from computer engineering to neurobiology. Both are challenging disciplines, but very different in their subject matter. Even Kurt Warner, future first ballot HoFer and one of the most intelligent men to ever touch a football, struggled in this offense in its inception.

And given the fact that Kolb had one month to do all of this before the season started due to the lockout, I'm not the least bit surprised he did not live up to some fan's extremely lofty expectations. As a matter of fact, before the season some here were understanding enough to say they would give him next offseason to be 100% comfortable.

Go read my thread about the list of QBs who have thrown a TD to Fitz and read the final sentence of my OP.

11 QBs since 2004. ELEVEN!!!

Part of the team's collective failures at the QB position have not been about the personnel behind center, but rather, the short leashes some of these guys have had around their necks. Yes, we've had clowns like Anderson and Hall, who are complete garbage, but IMO, that is not the case with Kolb. Hell, this team almost put the final nail in the coffin to Warner's career by benching him for Leinart in 2006 and leaving him on the pine the start of 2007. But because Kurt Warner was...well...Kurt Warner, he overcame that obstacle and turned himself into a first ballot HoFer.

My hope is the organization doesn't listen to its fans anymore and says it will stick with its guy, continue to immerse him in the system, and see what they have in their investment. The alternative is much worse: pick up a journeyman QB or another rookie in 2012 (because successful teams who actually spend time developing QBs into franchise players never kick them to the curb), whose numbers will be just as bad if not worse, miss the playoffs again, and go back to the drawing board in 2013. Rinse, lather, repeat.

I can entertain the argument that Kolb is completely inept, but only if we're having this same conversation one year from now. Most of my friends who love football, have no emotional interest in the Cardinals and can discuss the game on an intellectual level have told me they understand why Kolb is struggling and don't understand the man love for John Skelton.

Otherwise, myself, AZ Finest, and others who are capable of seeing the big picture, will reserve final judgment about Kolb until it is applicable, and now is not the time.

 

[TJ]

April when the Lockout was in full effect? C'mon now. Don't think that Larry gave Kolb a peek at our playbook? Do you really thinking that seeing the playbook of an opposing team is that great of an advantage (or disadvantage)? You can see old NFL teams' playbooks on the internet. It's not about the individual plays or even the language; not in this offense. It's about making the correct keys and working on your timing with your targets.

Pure conjecture and speculation. Almost like the Leinart situation. You try to get people to give you proof that the locker room turned on him in 2010 when all it takes is putting 2 & 2 together. Only when it's convenient for you.....

I'm not sure how AZF can say that the last three weeks (when Kolb was inactive) proved that Kolb has what it takes to be an NFL QB. That doesn't mean anything at all. And AZF certainly can't explain how Kolb got worse every game as the season wore on. Nor can he explain how it's damning on John Skelton to go 2-0 against mediocre teams, but it's perfectly all right that Kolb look awful against Washington, Minnesota, New York, and Seattle.

I would rephrase that and say that the Arizona Cardinals went 2-0 (actually 2-1) during Skelton's time as a starter. This isn't baseball and Skelton and Kolb aren't pitchers. If you really think that particular statistic is the end all be all, we should have signed one of the players you wanted in the offseason: Vince Young.

The first game, the offense as a whole did little to contribute to the victory. Give the game balls to defense and special teams. The second game, Skelton gets kudos for some of his plays, but still looked VERY inaccurate (like Anderson inaccurate) and was not compelling in his argument for the starting job. And last Sunday showed that he is still very raw and undeveloped despite being in the system for a year and a half longer than Kolb

The only thing good about the prospect of Kolb falling on his face Sunday is that it might drive AZF off the board for another eleven weeks with his talk of how much Kolb reminds him of Aaron Rodgers.

Why? Because AZ Finest has forgotten more football in his life than almost everyone on this board will ever know? Because he can discuss the game at an intellectual level? Completely ridiculous.

AZ Finest isn't "driven" off the boards by anyone. He's got bigger fish to fry in his life besides talking about the Cardinals with a bunch of people who these days sound like paranoid schizophrenics off their meds. This is also the reason you don't see me here as much anymore. Because a person chooses not to post on here doesn't mean he is too timid to be here.

And no, he does not think Kolb is equal to Rodgers, but rather, he compares their situations at the beginning of their respective careers.

 

[Matt L]

I agree with the premise of this thread.

If Kolb plays this sunday and doesn't complete at least 58% of his throws and has a TD and over 200 yards (those are basically Skelton's numbers from the ST Louis game) I will eat some crow on this thread.

Let's get some Lamb meat this Sunday!

 

[DoTheDew]

And there have been people from the beginning who thought we overspent on Kolb and been killing the deal, and love that he is struggling so that they are right.

I'm thinking it's premature to write him off and while it's JUSTIFIED to be disappointed in his play thus far, it's far from time to say he sucks and never will be good.

I hated the deal from that start and hate that I'm right. I want the Cardinals to win. I don't think any true Cardinal fan cares more about being right that Kolb was overrated, then they do about winning.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why? Because AZ Finest has forgotten more football in his life than almost everyone on this board will ever know?

AZ Finest isn't "driven" off the boards by anyone. He's got bigger fish to fry in his life besides talking about the Cardinals with a bunch of people who these days sound like paranoid schizophrenics off their meds. This is also the reason you don't see me here as much anymore. Because a person chooses not to post on here doesn't mean he is too timid to be here.

LOL... right... it's just an incredible coincidence that the two guys who were the most vociferous two people here as far as boasting about Kolb while deingrating anyone else's opinion (and have been all over this board for YEARS) just happen to dissappear off the face of the planet after Kolb fell on his face, then resurfaced ONLY after his back-up fell on his face against the best defense in the league (but suprisingly were nowhere to be found when he was part of the team that went 2-0 after their guy went 0 for his last 6).

so what happened? did you guys fry up all your fish so now you'll be here for the duration? or will you suddenly be deluged in fish if Kolb gets back in there and stinks up the joint like every other QB we've had the last two years?