Is Palmer close too or still a franchise QB?

[Buckybird]

Look past his age & the bad teams he's played for, for whatever reason.

 

[Totally_Red]

Not a 'true' franchise quarterback, but then we're not paying him $18-20 million per year either. IMO, he's an average to slightly above average starter who can throw the long ball. The later attribute makes him valuable to the BA offense. Mike Jurecki was quoting Kurt Warner yesterday in saying just how difficult it is for a team to dink and dunk its way down the field for 80 yards and a touchdown. That's even more true in the NFC West.

Carson Palmer gives us a chance to be competitive until the QBOTF is on campus. Now, as many others have posted, it's imperative that Steve Keim and Jason Licht strike gold in the draft regarding the offensive line. I suspect two of the first four selections will be o-line.

 

[earthsci]

Today he is.

 

[Sam Wise]

Last year he was without a doubt the top raider, despite people saying he got stuff in "Garbage Time" all the Raiders had was garbage around him. He had no receiver who was a #1 or 2 on any other team, his oline switched schemes mid season, Myers was ok and he was behind in almost every game. He doesn't panic, he can read a defense and given some he will keep us competative. Also he has never had a receiver like Larry. If we keep him upright with a decent oline, he could post career numbers. Unfortunately despite how good he is I don't expect our defense to stop too many teams. He takes us from 3 wins to 6 or 7 wins.

 

[kerouac9]

It depends how you define "Franchise QB." I like to define it as a guy who makes the players around him better. I don't believe that's the case. I think he's a solid veteran starter.

It's going to change for people now that he's a Cardinal, but really the question depends on where you rank him among his peers. He's clearly not in the "elite" class of players with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, and Peyton Manning. I'd argue that while he's had good statistical seasons, he's never been in that class of players.

I don't think he's in the class of "franchise" quarterbacks with (and I'm not ranking them, just grouping them) Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Tony Romo, and Phillip Rivers (I'm the last non-Charger-fan believer in Phil Rivers).

The question is, for me, where he ranks among the other solid veteran signal callers in the NFL. For me? I'd rank them thusly:

12. Jay Cutler, CHI
13. Josh Freeman, TB
14. Matt Schaub, HOU
15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC
17. Sam Bradford, STL
18. Mark Sanchez, NYJ
19. Matt Cassel, MIN(?)

When Palmer was completely healthy, he played like Matt Stafford. I think this year in Oakland, he was a square peg in a round hole. His numbers compare quite well with Joe Flacco's regular-season performance (including the underrated stat of defensive pass interference penalties drawn--9 for 159 yards in 2012... Arizona's QBs combined for a sad 5 for 74 yards last year), but I'm not sure he can operate on that level anymore.

 

[JeffGollin]

He won't be until he is.

But he could be. Or not.

Better we can look forward with some kind of hope that he can still be the guy than to face the season hoping that Stanton would somehow prove to be our inside straight.

Nothing's guaranteed* but at least this gives us a shot.

* (nothing except Carson's $10-mil)

 

[kerouac9]

In his last five seasons, Carson Palmer is 22-38 as a starting QB. Not exactly franchise numbers.

 

[Buckybird]

It depends how you define "Franchise QB." I like to define it as a guy who makes the players around him better. I don't believe that's the case. I think he's a solid veteran starter.

It's going to change for people now that he's a Cardinal, but really the question depends on where you rank him among his peers. He's clearly not in the "elite" class of players with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, and Peyton Manning. I'd argue that while he's had good statistical seasons, he's never been in that class of players.

I don't think he's in the class of "franchise" quarterbacks with (and I'm not ranking them, just grouping them) Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Tony Romo, and Phillip Rivers (I'm the last non-Charger-fan believer in Phil Rivers).

The question is, for me, where he ranks among the other solid veteran signal callers in the NFL. For me? I'd rank them thusly:

12. Jay Cutler, CHI
13. Josh Freeman, TB
14. Matt Schaub, HOU
15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC
17. Sam Bradford, STL
18. Mark Sanchez, NYJ
19. Matt Cassel, MIN(?)

When Palmer was completely healthy, he played like Matt Stafford. I think this year in Oakland, he was a square peg in a round hole. His numbers compare quite well with Joe Flacco's regular-season performance (including the underrated stat of defensive pass interference penalties drawn--9 for 159 yards in 2012... Arizona's QBs combined for a sad 5 for 74 yards last year), but I'm not sure he can operate on that level anymore.

My thoughts on Palmers were pretty much spot on with this K9

My problem with CP is that he's really never elevated his teams play & those teams have had 1 playoff season I believe. I wonder how good or differant he would be if he was never injured against the Stealers in that playoff game?

I really hope he's coming to AZ to try & win because he's basically quit on 2 teams now, which to some degree I understand given their ability to win...just like the Cardinals.

 

[LarryStalling]

He will be a franchise qb compared to the stuff we have had to watch since warner retired.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Cardinals get better, but how much better?

As team spokesman Mark Dalton has pointed out on Twitter, Palmer was one of eight quarterbacks last year to throw for more than 4,000 yards, 20 or more touchdown passes, a completion percentage of 65 or more, and a passer rating of 85.0 or higher.

The other seven? Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, and Matt Schaub.

 

[desertdawg]

It's yet to be seen yo, yet to be seen.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Last year he was without a doubt the top raider, despite people saying he got stuff in "Garbage Time" all the Raiders had was garbage around him. He had no receiver who was a #1 or 2 on any other team, his oline switched schemes mid season, Myers was ok and he was behind in almost every game. He doesn't panic, he can read a defense and given some he will keep us competative. Also he has never had a receiver like Larry. If we keep him upright with a decent oline, he could post career numbers. Unfortunately despite how good he is I don't expect our defense to stop too many teams. He takes us from 3 wins to 6 or 7 wins.

Why are you guys acting like we lost PP, CC and DWash? Bottom line is that we still have our core defensive players and as long as we have those guys I don't see this defense taking a major step backwards. Heck from the looks of it we will be better against the run this year.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

[kerouac9]

Why are you guys acting like we lost PP, CC and DWash? Bottom line is that we still have our core defensive players and as long as we have those guys I don't see this defense taking a major step backwards. Heck from the looks of it we will be better against the run this year.

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This is endorsed as one of K9's least favorite zombie ideas.

Yeremiah Bell = Adrian Wilson vs. the run.
Rashard Johnson <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Kerry Rhodes vs. the run.

No evidence that Powers or Cason are improvements over Gay/Toler in run defense.

The problem with the Cards' run D in 2012 is that the D-coordinator wasn't concerned about it, as long as we weren't giving up big passing plays. Based on the available statistical evidence, that was a good choice.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Why are you guys acting like we lost PP, CC and DWash? Bottom line is that we still have our core defensive players and as long as we have those guys I don't see this defense taking a major step backwards. Heck from the looks of it we will be better against the run this year.

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It matter on what you want to believe.

If you believe it was the players then I can see how the expectations are not looking at much of a drop off.

If you believe it was the scheme, like I do, then I can see how people think there will be a drop off.

IMO, these are the same players that were coached by Bill Davis, and Pendergast. They thrived in Ray Horton's scheme tho.

Now take those same players, and take away most of the depth from last year, and both starting safeties. Now take away the scheme.

Big step back, IMO.

Who is playing safety ? Who is playing OLBer ? Who is providing a pass rush ? Is Daryl Washington going to do OK in this new system ? Are Jerraud Powers, and Antoine Cason better than Grey Toler and William Gay ?

Plenty of questions to answer, IMO.

One thing I do agree on, is that we will be better against the run.

 

[Azlen]

15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC

Looks like we really made out in the deal considering that KC gave up a second for Smith. On that note, we really ended up overpaying for Kolb.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It matter on what you want to believe.

If you believe it was the players then I can see how the expectations are not looking at much of a drop off.

If you believe it was the scheme, like I do, then I can see how people think there will be a drop off.

IMO, these are the same players that were coached by Bill Davis, and Pendergast. They thrived in Ray Horton's scheme tho.

Now take those same players, and take away most of the depth from last year, and both starting safeties. Now take away the scheme.

Big step back, IMO.

Who is playing safety ? Who is playing OLBer ? Who is providing a pass rush ? Is Daryl Washington going to do OK in this new system ? Are Jerraud Powers, and Antoine Cason better than Grey Toler and William Gay ?

Plenty of questions to answer, IMO.

One thing I do agree on, is that we will be better against the run.

Who was playing OLB last year? Who were the pass rushera last year? Those were the same questions we had going into last season. Look by no means am I saying the defense will be just as good as last year, but I certainly don't beleive they took a significant step bacwards either.

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[BigRedRage]

hes our franchise QB

 

[unseenaz]

hes our franchise QB

 

[kerouac9]

Who was playing OLB last year? Who were the pass rushera last year? Those were the same questions we had going into last season. Look by no means am I saying the defense will be just as good as last year, but I certainly don't beleive they took a significant step bacwards either.

Well, that's why the scheme is/was so important to the success of the pass defense. We didn't have elite rush talent at OLB then, and we still don't. But we were able to manufacture pressure with creative blitz schemes.

Bill Parcells and Mike Nolan (Bowles' system predecessors) relied on top talent at the OLB position to win individual matchups. In Miami, Bowles had some pretty good pass rushers in Jason Taylor and Cameron Wake are elite talents. O'Brien Schofield and Sam Acho need to be put in positions to succeed.

 

[Shane]

Well, that's why the scheme is/was so important to the success of the pass defense. We didn't have elite rush talent at OLB then, and we still don't. But we were able to manufacture pressure with creative blitz schemes.

Bill Parcells and Mike Nolan (Bowles' system predecessors) relied on top talent at the OLB position to win individual matchups. In Miami, Bowles had some pretty good pass rushers in Jason Taylor and Cameron Wake are elite talents. O'Brien Schofield and Sam Acho need to be put in positions to succeed.

Well according to Arians we wont have Dockett and CC eating up blockers any more. He said we aren't playing two gap and will put DD in a position to get pressure and be a disruptor! Which by association would be same for CC too. So how will that affect Acho and Scho considering??

 

[CardLogic]

It depends how you define "Franchise QB." I like to define it as a guy who makes the players around him better. I don't believe that's the case. I think he's a solid veteran starter.

It's going to change for people now that he's a Cardinal, but really the question depends on where you rank him among his peers. He's clearly not in the "elite" class of players with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, and Peyton Manning. I'd argue that while he's had good statistical seasons, he's never been in that class of players.

I don't think he's in the class of "franchise" quarterbacks with (and I'm not ranking them, just grouping them) Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Tony Romo, and Phillip Rivers (I'm the last non-Charger-fan believer in Phil Rivers).

The question is, for me, where he ranks among the other solid veteran signal callers in the NFL. For me? I'd rank them thusly:

12. Jay Cutler, CHI
13. Josh Freeman, TB
14. Matt Schaub, HOU
15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC
17. Sam Bradford, STL
18. Mark Sanchez, NYJ
19. Matt Cassel, MIN(?)

When Palmer was completely healthy, he played like Matt Stafford. I think this year in Oakland, he was a square peg in a round hole. His numbers compare quite well with Joe Flacco's regular-season performance (including the underrated stat of defensive pass interference penalties drawn--9 for 159 yards in 2012... Arizona's QBs combined for a sad 5 for 74 yards last year), but I'm not sure he can operate on that level anymore.

I tend to agree with your overall evaluation of Palmer; and the other QB's listed in general.

However your last statement puzzles me - what has happened between the end of last season until now to question whether Palmer "can operate on that level anymore"?

Btw, Palmer is 33 years old, not the end of the line for QB's...

 

[kerouac9]

Well according to Arians we wont have Dockett and CC eating up blockers any more. He said we aren't playing two gap and will put DD in a position to get pressure and be a disruptor! Which by association would be same for CC too. So how will that affect Acho and Scho considering??

Probably not much. Dockett and Campbell were playing one-gap quite a bit in clear rushing situations (they weren't two-gapping in that 2-4-5 pass set, that's for sure).

If anything, putting Dockett and Campbell into rush mode on all three downs is going to hurt our rush defense, because it'll be more difficult for Daryl Washington to slide to the runner.

I tend to agree with your overall evaluation of Palmer; and the other QB's listed in general.

However your last statement puzzles me - what has happened between the end of last season until now to question whether Palmer "can operate on that level anymore"?

Btw, Palmer is 33 years old, not the end of the line for QB's...

The Matt Stafford level is what I meant. I can see how that would be confusing. In the regular season, Flacco was a pretty average quarterback.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'll take him without complaint, he is a better temporary fix than anything I thought we'd get this season, but his years of being a franchise guy are behind him. The arm strength isnt there anymore.

 

[oaken1]

I am always of the opinion that the success or failure of a QB depends primarily on two things...
1. His mental makeup...intelligence, confidence, preparation, etc...

2. the coaching staff working with him ( style, system,demands within the offense, etc)


Palmer has good physical skills and also a good mental makeup......if our staff now contains the QB gurus we have been led to believe, and they truly tailor the offensive system to the strengths of the players.... well, Palmer could well be a franchise type QB for the next 5 to 7 years....4500 yds and 30 TD's is not out of the question
would love to see Palmer get the chance to dramatically improve his playoff record,lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

I get this from the press conference, Palmer does not doubt his ability (you can say that about Kolb but Kolb never had any proof of that himself by his play over an extended time frame and seemed to be trying to convince himself by stating he could handle it, Palmer already knows because he has done it), acted very serious about being the guy to lead the offense (guys who get it, do not talk too much and he was very business like and seemed very centered on what he expects of himself and those around him) and is already acting like a leader and he respects the head coach and also appears to get along great with him already. Not only did we need a QB, this team needed a leader under center...we have that now in my opinion.