Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Look past his age & the bad teams he's played for, for whatever reason.
My thoughts on Palmers were pretty much spot on with this K9It depends how you define "Franchise QB." I like to define it as a guy who makes the players around him better. I don't believe that's the case. I think he's a solid veteran starter.
It's going to change for people now that he's a Cardinal, but really the question depends on where you rank him among his peers. He's clearly not in the "elite" class of players with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, and Peyton Manning. I'd argue that while he's had good statistical seasons, he's never been in that class of players.
I don't think he's in the class of "franchise" quarterbacks with (and I'm not ranking them, just grouping them) Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Tony Romo, and Phillip Rivers (I'm the last non-Charger-fan believer in Phil Rivers).
The question is, for me, where he ranks among the other solid veteran signal callers in the NFL. For me? I'd rank them thusly:
12. Jay Cutler, CHI
13. Josh Freeman, TB
14. Matt Schaub, HOU
15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC
17. Sam Bradford, STL
18. Mark Sanchez, NYJ
19. Matt Cassel, MIN(?)
When Palmer was completely healthy, he played like Matt Stafford. I think this year in Oakland, he was a square peg in a round hole. His numbers compare quite well with Joe Flacco's regular-season performance (including the underrated stat of defensive pass interference penalties drawn--9 for 159 yards in 2012... Arizona's QBs combined for a sad 5 for 74 yards last year), but I'm not sure he can operate on that level anymore.
As team spokesman Mark Dalton has pointed out on Twitter, Palmer was one of eight quarterbacks last year to throw for more than 4,000 yards, 20 or more touchdown passes, a completion percentage of 65 or more, and a passer rating of 85.0 or higher.
The other seven? Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, and Matt Schaub.
Last year he was without a doubt the top raider, despite people saying he got stuff in "Garbage Time" all the Raiders had was garbage around him. He had no receiver who was a #1 or 2 on any other team, his oline switched schemes mid season, Myers was ok and he was behind in almost every game. He doesn't panic, he can read a defense and given some he will keep us competative. Also he has never had a receiver like Larry. If we keep him upright with a decent oline, he could post career numbers. Unfortunately despite how good he is I don't expect our defense to stop too many teams. He takes us from 3 wins to 6 or 7 wins.
Why are you guys acting like we lost PP, CC and DWash? Bottom line is that we still have our core defensive players and as long as we have those guys I don't see this defense taking a major step backwards. Heck from the looks of it we will be better against the run this year.
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Why are you guys acting like we lost PP, CC and DWash? Bottom line is that we still have our core defensive players and as long as we have those guys I don't see this defense taking a major step backwards. Heck from the looks of it we will be better against the run this year.
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15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC
It matter on what you want to believe.
If you believe it was the players then I can see how the expectations are not looking at much of a drop off.
If you believe it was the scheme, like I do, then I can see how people think there will be a drop off.
IMO, these are the same players that were coached by Bill Davis, and Pendergast. They thrived in Ray Horton's scheme tho.
Now take those same players, and take away most of the depth from last year, and both starting safeties. Now take away the scheme.
Big step back, IMO.
Who is playing safety ? Who is playing OLBer ? Who is providing a pass rush ? Is Daryl Washington going to do OK in this new system ? Are Jerraud Powers, and Antoine Cason better than Grey Toler and William Gay ?
Plenty of questions to answer, IMO.
One thing I do agree on, is that we will be better against the run.
hes our franchise QB
Who was playing OLB last year? Who were the pass rushera last year? Those were the same questions we had going into last season. Look by no means am I saying the defense will be just as good as last year, but I certainly don't beleive they took a significant step bacwards either.
Well, that's why the scheme is/was so important to the success of the pass defense. We didn't have elite rush talent at OLB then, and we still don't. But we were able to manufacture pressure with creative blitz schemes.
Bill Parcells and Mike Nolan (Bowles' system predecessors) relied on top talent at the OLB position to win individual matchups. In Miami, Bowles had some pretty good pass rushers in Jason Taylor and Cameron Wake are elite talents. O'Brien Schofield and Sam Acho need to be put in positions to succeed.
I tend to agree with your overall evaluation of Palmer; and the other QB's listed in general.It depends how you define "Franchise QB." I like to define it as a guy who makes the players around him better. I don't believe that's the case. I think he's a solid veteran starter.
It's going to change for people now that he's a Cardinal, but really the question depends on where you rank him among his peers. He's clearly not in the "elite" class of players with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, and Peyton Manning. I'd argue that while he's had good statistical seasons, he's never been in that class of players.
I don't think he's in the class of "franchise" quarterbacks with (and I'm not ranking them, just grouping them) Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Tony Romo, and Phillip Rivers (I'm the last non-Charger-fan believer in Phil Rivers).
The question is, for me, where he ranks among the other solid veteran signal callers in the NFL. For me? I'd rank them thusly:
12. Jay Cutler, CHI
13. Josh Freeman, TB
14. Matt Schaub, HOU
15. Carson Palmer, ARI
16. Alex Smith, KC
17. Sam Bradford, STL
18. Mark Sanchez, NYJ
19. Matt Cassel, MIN(?)
When Palmer was completely healthy, he played like Matt Stafford. I think this year in Oakland, he was a square peg in a round hole. His numbers compare quite well with Joe Flacco's regular-season performance (including the underrated stat of defensive pass interference penalties drawn--9 for 159 yards in 2012... Arizona's QBs combined for a sad 5 for 74 yards last year), but I'm not sure he can operate on that level anymore.
Well according to Arians we wont have Dockett and CC eating up blockers any more. He said we aren't playing two gap and will put DD in a position to get pressure and be a disruptor! Which by association would be same for CC too. So how will that affect Acho and Scho considering??
I tend to agree with your overall evaluation of Palmer; and the other QB's listed in general.
However your last statement puzzles me - what has happened between the end of last season until now to question whether Palmer "can operate on that level anymore"?
Btw, Palmer is 33 years old, not the end of the line for QB's...