Did Gannon Foil Ossenfort’s Plan?

kerouac9

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Our offensive line has a LG problem. Past that, it is good enough that Kyler should be able to be successful. I don't know what football other people watch, but every line struggles at times during every game.
Yes. I don't even think we need to make a splashy signing at the position. I think if we had an L.J. Collier-type signing, it would make this offensive line complete.

Dobbs seems to have enough time, most of the time.
 

BirdGangThing

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Yes. I don't even think we need to make a splashy signing at the position. I think if we had an L.J. Collier-type signing, it would make this offensive line complete.

Dobbs seems to have enough time, most of the time.
This is just craziness to me - Paris and Hernandez - that's it - everyone else might as well go and tackle Kyler Murray themselves
 

Arz101

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Our offensive line has a LG problem. Past that, it is good enough that Kyler should be able to be successful. I don't know what football other people watch, but every line struggles at times during every game.
Pass block is suspect. They got to improve overall in pass block. Run blocks are fine.
 
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kerouac9

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This is just craziness to me - Paris and Hernandez - that's it - everyone else might as well go and tackle Kyler Murray themselves
You're never going to have five pro bowlers/first round picks on the OL. Hernandez is probably a B- offensive lineman. The Captain is a perfectly fine starter. Froholdt isn't a catastrophe. Our LG situation is so bad it just drags down what might otherwise be a moderately below-average unit.
 

BirdGangThing

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You're never going to have five pro bowlers/first round picks on the OL. Hernandez is probably a B- offensive lineman. The Captain is a perfectly fine starter. Froholdt isn't a catastrophe. Our LG situation is so bad it just drags down what might otherwise be a moderately below-average unit.
Pro bowlers?

Pro. Bowlers.

We're over here talking about serviceable and your talking about pro bowlers
Not average. Not above or below average... but probowlers. On this year's offensive line

Come on man. I know you like "The Captain" but Humphries looks done-phries.
Truth is we don't even have a LG and I'm tired of talking about the extremely subpar guard we have playing center who just keeps sinking while everyone swears he's seaworthy

Pro bowlers???

Kyler Murray is coming back to a rookie right tackle and a 3 man weak spot to his left starting at center - but it's all good - I think everybody tired of the hippie's views on this pressing matter
 

Krangodnzr

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You're never going to have five pro bowlers/first round picks on the OL. Hernandez is probably a B- offensive lineman. The Captain is a perfectly fine starter. Froholdt isn't a catastrophe. Our LG situation is so bad it just drags down what might otherwise be a moderately below-average unit.
You also have to factor in, that when you have a QB who will almost never beat you deep, teams can just pin their ears back and rush with little regard to the consequences. Few OLs look good in this situation.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Not improving a bottom 5 NFL roster and team is tanking. "Evaluating" is just a nicer way of putting it. It's like trading away all of of your early draft picks to load up on 7th rounders and making excuses for how it is better.
That would be tanking. Your dealing in extremes here that the Cards just aren't doing.
 

kerouac9

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You also have to factor in, that when you have a QB who will almost never beat you deep, teams can just pin their ears back and rush with little regard to the consequences. Few OLs look good in this situation.
The run-blocking has been fine, really. I think that speaks to how these OL are perfectly cromulent outside of the one who definitely isn't. But when we get behind the sticks, you're absolutely right that teams are just mugging the LG and everyone is trying to backfill.

That would be tanking. Your dealing in extremes here that the Cards just aren't doing.
Saying that the 1-6 Arizona Cardinals aren't tanking is such a bizzare hill to die on.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Saying that the 1-6 Arizona Cardinals aren't tanking is such a bizzare hill to die on.
So is not understanding the difference between not being good, and tanking. You think Carolina is tanking because their 0-6?
 

kerouac9

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So is not understanding the difference between not being good, and tanking. You think Carolina is tanking because their 0-6?

There's a difference between not being good on accident and not being good on purpose. I have a difficult time believing you look at Carolina and us and see teams that just bungled their way into being two of the worst teams in the NFL.

The Panthers tried to be good. They have an owner who is looking for a new stadium/practice facility, who hired an alleged all-star coaching staff, and traded up for the #1 overall pick following a season where they fell one-game short of the playoffs in a weak division that actually got weaker this offseason.

The Arizona Cardinals did everything the possibly could to at least not be better and maybe be worse than they were in 2022's 4-13 campaign. They:

- Tampered with their head coaching candidate after every other job had been filled
- Traded out from a potential franchise edge rusher for a ho-hum offensive tackle prospect that would be fifth at his position the following year
- Unloaded every veteran player and prospect they could
- Pretty much sat out free agency altogether, including letting their two youngest free agents leave for greener pastures
- Drafted two players with known injuries with their first three picks!

How can you honestly say that the Cards were trying to improve their on-field product in 2023? Do you think Monti and Gannon bumbled their way to 1-6?
 

cheesebeef

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There's a difference between not being good on accident and not being good on purpose. I have a difficult time believing you look at Carolina and us and see teams that just bungled their way into being two of the worst teams in the NFL.

The Panthers tried to be good. They have an owner who is looking for a new stadium/practice facility, who hired an alleged all-star coaching staff, and traded up for the #1 overall pick following a season where they fell one-game short of the playoffs in a weak division that actually got weaker this offseason.

The Arizona Cardinals did everything the possibly could to at least not be better and maybe be worse than they were in 2022's 4-13 campaign. They:

- Tampered with their head coaching candidate after every other job had been filled
- Traded out from a potential franchise edge rusher for a ho-hum offensive tackle prospect that would be fifth at his position the following year
- Unloaded every veteran player and prospect they could
- Pretty much sat out free agency altogether, including letting their two youngest free agents leave for greener pastures
- Drafted two players with known injuries with their first three picks!

How can you honestly say that the Cards were trying to improve their on-field product in 2023? Do you think Monti and Gannon bumbled their way to 1-6?
Above all of this… their plan was to start the season with a dead-arm, old and always awful as a starter QB for at least half the season.

Any team who’s battle plan going into the season is starting broken down old Colt McCoy for at least half the season doesn’t care about winning that season, at the very least.
 

kerouac9

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Above all of this… their plan was to start the season with a dead-arm, old and always awful as a starter QB for at least half the season.

Any team who’s battle plan going into the season is starting broken down old Colt McCoy for at least half the season doesn’t care about winning that season, at the very least.
I don't think that was the plan. I've said this before, I think that Michael really pushed Gannon and Monti to keep Colt around because he had a fairly large guaranteed salary this season. Michael doesn't want to pay people not to play for the Cardinals.

When Monti and Gannon said they couldn't make the finances work on Dobbs for like $500k I'm pretty sure it means Michael wouldn't give them the budget.
 

BirdGangThing

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How can you honestly say that the Cards were trying to improve their on-field product in 2023? Do you think Monti and Gannon bumbled their way to 1-6?
If we're talking about why we're 1-6 I'd say Gannon is the 1 and Monti is the 6

Meaning Monti definitely had a plan in mind - but Gannon ain't in on it
 

Chopper0080

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That would be tanking. Your dealing in extremes here that the Cards just aren't doing.
Is it extreme to fill your roster with Kevin Strong, Andre Chachere, and Starling Thomas who are the FA equivelant of 7th rounders? Our 4 best defensive players are Ledbetter, Baker, Thompson, and White. That is non-competitive talent-wise and we chose to sit on the cap space vs spend it.

My analogy is not as extreme as you are making it out to be. Passing on 4 mil players and signing essentially vet min guys when you have significant cap space is the equivalent of passing on high draft picks for 7th rounders.
 

juza76

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Passing on 4 mil players and signing essentially vet min guys when you have significant cap space is the equivalent of passing on high draft picks for 7th rounders.

I guess It has to do with new plane payments
Bidwill doesnt want to affect his personal wealth
 
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cheesebeef

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I don't think that was the plan. I've said this before, I think that Michael really pushed Gannon and Monti to keep Colt around because he had a fairly large guaranteed salary this season. Michael doesn't want to pay people not to play for the Cardinals.

When Monti and Gannon said they couldn't make the finances work on Dobbs for like $500k I'm pretty sure it means Michael wouldn't give them the budget.
But Dobbs wasn’t a realistic plan not to totally suck either, even if that’s who we went after in the first place.
 

TheCardFan

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- Tampered with their head coaching candidate after every other job had been filled
- Traded out from a potential franchise edge rusher for a ho-hum offensive tackle prospect that would be fifth at his position the following year

These two are not tankiing.
Drafting a potential franchise LT instead of a potential franchise edge rusher is not tanking and you forgot to mention they also got a #1 pick.

Agree 100% on the rest of your post tho.
 

kerouac9

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But Dobbs wasn’t a realistic plan not to totally suck either, even if that’s who we went after in the first place.

I dunno. I don't think we totally suck. I don't think we're entertaining, but we're as professionally and anonymously bad as the 2021 and 2022 Houston Texans. This was always the way.

We didn't want to be the Browns under Hue Jackson, who were bad and a circus.
 

dreamcastrocks

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How can you honestly say that the Cards were trying to improve their on-field product in 2023?
If they weren't trying to improve in the long term, why didn't they just keep Keim/Kliff?
Do you think Monti and Gannon bumbled their way to 1-6?
I think the team is in the bottom 3 talent wise. When that happens, your record almost always reflects that.
 

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