Did Gannon Foil Ossenfort’s Plan?

CardNots

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Nope. I think that Ossenfort looked at last year's train wreck and thought:

1) How can you even evaluate the roster based on how the year went?

2) We do have Kyler Murray who has performed at a high level, but he is injured and there are questions about him. I need to hedge my bets against whether he is the guy or not.

3) Why spend money on what will be a tough year and instead roll over some of that money for next year?

4) You win with great line play (both sides) and playmakers around the QB. Paris Johnson is a really good OT and will be a multiplier for this team in the passing game and run game.
Mainly taking cap hits this year for disposal of the players not in the plans for next year? Basically freeing money for FA acquisitions on defense? I would luv another stud OT.
 

Chopper0080

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And we've heard nothing of changes to the scouting staff since. How do you know he's changed the scouting staff? It was an excuse made for Monti, needing wholesale changes in that department. We definitely haven't made wholesale changes--that would have been news.
There is a potential scenario where Monti hires Sears and Sears reports back that the scouts are solid and it was Keim who was the idiot. Not likely, but possible.
 

Krangodnzr

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There is a potential scenario where Monti hires Sears and Sears reports back that the scouts are solid and it was Keim who was the idiot. Not likely, but possible.
Eh it could be a case that Keim valued players differently than scouts, like loved to take guards and ILBs early.
 

kerouac9

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There is a potential scenario where Monti hires Sears and Sears reports back that the scouts are solid and it was Keim who was the idiot. Not likely, but possible.
I also think that 80% of scouts (probably more) are interchangeable. The guys at the lower level basically separate the wheat from the chaff and kick the ranking decisions upstairs.
 

football karma

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Monti added a new Assistant GM who came from college scouting

he added a new Asst Director of Pro Personnel

we arent going to get the blow by blow on changes in standards, process, philosophy, etc with the people who remain

to suggest he has changed nothing isnt supported by facts
 

RON_IN_OC

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Do you have to do a sweep of all personnel to change how a department operates?
Of course not. That's not how the comments read. Previously, most expected sweeping changes regarding who was working, not how they were working. Many understood that staff may not change until after the draft, for continuity....but when the draft ane and went, there were no staffing changes made. This was unexpected. It's perfectly plausible that Monti thinks the scouts weren't the problem...how their data was used in decision making was the problem.
 

oaken1

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Hard disagree with #1. He hasn't changed the scouting departments all that much, if at all. That theory from the offseason has gone out the window.
You don't have to change the people to change how they eval a player, the traits they look for, or the metrics they use.
Sometimes scouting is a gut feeling or a hunch...we will likely never know if any of our guys have a trustworthy gut.
 

Stout

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You don't have to change the people to change how they eval a player, the traits they look for, or the metrics they use.
Sometimes scouting is a gut feeling or a hunch...we will likely never know if any of our guys have a trustworthy gut.
And that's fine. I have no problems with Monti and co doing so. The excuses for Monti still don't stand, however. It wasn't him waiting a year to turn over most of the scouting staff to get started.
 

Garthshort

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Have no idea how good our scouts are, but I'm confident that Monti/Sears do know. And that's why I feel good about the team going into the '24 draft.

Also, I'm pretty sure that no one on this Board has seen a scouting report written by one of our scouts.
 

Stout

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Have no idea how good our scouts are, but I'm confident that Monti/Sears do know. And that's why I feel good about the team going into the '24 draft.

Also, I'm pretty sure that no one on this Board has seen a scouting report written by one of our scouts.
Agreed. As I've said, just erasing the idea that the team was paralyzed in the offseason because Monti didn't trust his personnel. This wasn't the excuse many were promoting it to be. I'm fully confident Keim was the problem.
 

football karma

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As I've said, just erasing the idea that the team was paralyzed in the offseason because Monti didn't trust his personnel.
the draft is the draft: you make your picks regardless. Monti's faith or lack thereof in the scouting staff probably didnt impact how they picked -- the bigger factor was (IMO) a deliberate strategy to get capital for the 2024 draft in the event Kyler doesnt work out

I do believe that not wanting to commit to contracts beyond 2024 was in part influenced by uncertainty on the pro personnel group -- as well as wanting to see a new staff in action and the type of player they wanted -- AND -- keeping the cap flexible in 2024 /2025 in the event Kyler doesnt work out.
 

oaken1

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And that's fine. I have no problems with Monti and co doing so. The excuses for Monti still don't stand, however. It wasn't him waiting a year to turn over most of the scouting staff to get started.
what excuses??... You mean when a bunch of guys with no ears in the room discuss what could be happening??
thats speculation. Not excuses.
 

SECTION 11

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my best guess on Monti's plan for 2023:

1. spend this year getting pro and college scouting departments to his liking

2. make no contract commitments beyond 2024

3. Determine if K1 is the guy

4. figure out the keepers on the current roster.

5. bank draft and cap capital for when his scouting is trustworthy / when he knows what his QB situation is
And I have no problem with any of that.
 

Stout

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what excuses??... You mean when a bunch of guys with no ears in the room discuss what could be happening??
thats speculation. Not excuses.
It was absolutely used as a certainty by some on this board. I agree, it was pure speculation, and now that speculation has been put to bed.
 

BirdGangThing

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I thought we'd win one of our first two games - then go winless for a long while - which would put us at 1-5 rn

If Kyler comes back with 8 or so games left I think we can win 2 or 3 of them

I'm still at either 3-14 or 4-13
 

AZCB34

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Practically your entire adult life you’ve dreamed of being an NFL GM. Now you’ve finally gotten the job. Of course you’re working for a team that’s never won a Super Bowl in its more than 50 years of the game’s existence. You do have the top pick in the upcoming draft, meaning the team’s a recent big loser. Complicating that is the fact you already have a highly paid QB. Sadly he’s injured, plus his abilities are quite controversial. You reason you can’t fix this in one year. So you trade your pick to a bad team for a first round pick next year. That draft promises to offer one of the best QB prospects in recent years. Now you just need to dump the better players on your team to assure the top pick. Also you sign virtually no impact players. You’re now set with the weakest roster in the league.

The owner has fired the losing coach & GM who created this mess. So you want to hire a coach with potential, but not a wily veteran who could be hard to control. Dozens of coordinators have been elevated to head coach in recent years with the vast majority going down in flames. Nearly all of them had a better roster than yours. You just want a guy who will grow into the job. You pick a solid coordinator and wait to grab that top QB. You’ve set this up so carefully; confident no one could win with this roster.

Unfortunately for Ossenfort, Gannon wasn’t in on the plan. He came to win. I’m not certain how many he’ll win. I am confident he will win enough games to lose the top pick. The irony is that if I’m right about Ossenfort’s plan, he ironically chose a coach who defied the odds. He put together a solid staff of young, hard chargers who wouldn’t easily accept defeat. So the Cards may not get that generational QB, but they may have gotten the best young coaching staff in the league. I can’t wait to see what they can do with a quality roster. Maybe that 50+ year drought will finally end.

So is the team tanking? I think that was Ossenfort’s intention (which he can’t say without being penalized). This is the perfect example of why tanking is virtually impossible in the NFL. There’s simply too many variables. Gannon turned out to be a big one. Also players have spent years being conditioned to avoid losing. You just can’t build a roster of all useless players without creating chaos you can’t get quickly turned around. You can’t start from that roster or you might not last long enough to fix things. So, yeah they’re tanking; sort of.
Players and coaches don’t tank. This isn’t rocket science
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Lol. This thread will age well.
You’re trolling now.

Do I love the job Gannon has done? Nope. Do I hate it? Nope. I just don’t know because Vince Lombardi couldn’t win with this roster + Dobbs.

Honestly my biggest concern with the staff has been riding some of these handpicked vets who are clearly washed and yes that includes Dobbs.
 

kerouac9

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You’re trolling now.

Do I love the job Gannon has done? Nope. Do I hate it? Nope. I just don’t know because Vince Lombardi couldn’t win with this roster + Dobbs.

Honestly my biggest concern with the staff has been riding some of these handpicked vets who are clearly washed and yes that includes Dobbs.
Gannon might be fine. Hard to tell with this group of players. Be Gannon + staff out coaching the tank is such a bad take when you’re 1-5 (now 1-6).

No one in the NFL is on scholarship. There are no FBS teams on the schedule. We shouldn’t be raising a banner because we’ve been within a core at halftime in some games.

The second half offense is a catastrophe. Getting three turnovers and losing is a coaching failure.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Gannon might be fine. Hard to tell with this group of players. Be Gannon + staff out coaching the tank is such a bad take when you’re 1-5 (now 1-6).

No one in the NFL is on scholarship. There are no FBS teams on the schedule. We shouldn’t be raising a banner because we’ve been within a core at halftime in some games.

The second half offense is a catastrophe. Getting three turnovers and losing is a coaching failure.
I agree. Just not sure who’s winning the football game today with how Dobbs played.
 

Devilmaycare

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Agreed. As I've said, just erasing the idea that the team was paralyzed in the offseason because Monti didn't trust his personnel. This wasn't the excuse many were promoting it to be. I'm fully confident Keim was the problem.
Both of those can be true though. I'm confident Keim was the problem too but Monti could still have not trusted his personnel that lead to the '23 offseason. He was new to the org and could have not trusted them due to lack of familiarity and from the perception of the last few years. When he came in he had to figure out if it was the scouts, Keim, or both. Anyone from the outside looking in had to be leery of that group.
 
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