Suns lose again

[1Sun]

You should really watch some of Morant's games. The dude has IT, IMO. And yes, it is a weak draft, but that's mostly because it's very top heavy. The top 3 of Zion, Morant and Barrett are very talented and then there's a massive drop-off after that.

I also think this team isn't NEARLY as close to being close as I believe you do. Yes, Holiday would make them better in the short term, but to what end? Even with Anthony Davis, Mirotic and Randle, the Pelicans haven't been very good year in year out and were beyond disappointing this year even before the trade demand was made. I fear he's a bit of a band-aid... a REALLY GOOD band-aid, but a band-aid nonetheless that might push this team immediately to be a 40-45 win team next year, but after that, I think we might end up running in mud, up and down between 45-50 wins in the next couple years while being an also-ran in a tough Western Conference. And then when Holiday's contract is up, we'll be screwed. We've endured this much pain to try and be GREAT. I'm not ready to settle at being... okay and or good in a peak season.

Patience right now is key. We were the second worst team in the league last year. For us to truly challenge in the future... which is what we all want... it's still going to need a 3rd super-talented player with star upside to make up a true Big 3. And more than that, I think we're going to need another true alpha dog. We have 1 with Book, but I believe despite Ayton's natural talents, the lack of dog in him will ultimately keep him from being the dominant #2 a title team needs. Make no mistake, he will get better, but I think looking forward, if we're going to put together a title team, we'll need a true blue #2 or even another #1a/b to go along with Booker/Ayton to compete at the highest level long term. Morant has that potential to be one of the players at the most important position on the floor.

We have been patient for 9 years. How many more years will it take, and how much more of this garbage will Booker, Ayton, etc. be willing to take. Every season, at least one of our core has had enough. First it was Dragic, then Knight, then Bledsoe, and this year Warren. You can't build a winner like this.

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, i read Warren was more physically ready to play than mentally the last few games

like Dragic and Bledsoe we'll likely have to sell him at a disgruntled discount,
instead of moving him when he was a hot commodity earlier this season

i believe it started when Igor didn't start him when he had earned it

 

[Hoop Head]

yes, i read Warren was more physically ready to play than mentally the last few games

like Dragic and Bledsoe we'll likely have to sell him at a disgruntled discount,
instead of moving him when he was a hot commodity earlier this season

i believe it started when Igor didn't start him when he had earned it

You really do want to blame Igor for everything, don't you? Warren started all but the first 7 games of the season and then he was placed into the starting lineup where he stayed until his "bone bruise" or whatever his issue was became too much for him to play through. He was fine for 36 games but you want to say he was reminded of something 3 months prior and got angry? Please elaborate because you aren't making sense. There is no proof Warren was disgruntled because of the coaching when he sat because of his injury.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't discount Oubre. I think he can be a fantastic fourth piece... or maybe even a 3b with Ayton. But I don't think he's the game-changer this team will need moving forward to be legit contender year in, year out.

And as far as Bridges is concerned, I think his ceiling is GREAT role player as a 3 and D specialist..., and I do think he'll hit that ceiling, but I'll be surprised if he rises above that. Remember, he's not a super young guy who came out as a freshmen. He's already 22 and even at that age, struggled a lot this season on offense and showed very little ability to create for himself or others. Would be stoked to see that change, but again, that's never been any part of his game, even in college where he had age as advantage over a lot of younger players.

The Suns definitely need a spark from another player other than Oubre to take them to the next level. I'm expecting that spark to come from the addition of a point guard or power forward. I do think Oubre puts them in position to take the next step.

My evaluation of Bridges is much the same as yours.

 

[JCSunsfan]

would you give up the 2nd pick in the draft to get Holiday?

NOt a chance. Ja will be a better player immediately.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I thought this tweet by Duane Rankin was interesting. The Suns only had one winning starting lineup out of 28 different ones.

That lineup was Johnson, Booker, Ayton, Oubre and Bender. This lineup beat the Bucks and Warriors.

It doesn't prove anything but it hints when the Suns have competitive starters they can win.

IIRC, Johnson and Oubre went out injured after the Jazz game.

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That line up has size and balance. It also has decent defense. Wish we could keep Bender.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You should really watch some of Morant's games. The dude has IT, IMO. And yes, it is a weak draft, but that's mostly because it's very top heavy. The top 3 of Zion, Morant and Barrett are very talented and then there's a massive drop-off after that.

I also think this team isn't NEARLY as close to being close as I believe you do. Yes, Holiday would make them better in the short term, but to what end? Even with Anthony Davis, Mirotic and Randle, the Pelicans haven't been very good year in year out and were beyond disappointing this year even before the trade demand was made. I fear he's a bit of a band-aid... a REALLY GOOD band-aid, but a band-aid nonetheless that might push this team immediately to be a 40-45 win team next year, but after that, I think we might end up running in mud, up and down between 45-50 wins in the next couple years while being an also-ran in a tough Western Conference. And then when Holiday's contract is up, we'll be screwed. We've endured this much pain to try and be GREAT. I'm not ready to settle at being... okay and or good in a peak season.

Patience right now is key. We were the second worst team in the league last year. For us to truly challenge in the future... which is what we all want... it's still going to need a 3rd super-talented player with star upside to make up a true Big 3. And more than that, I think we're going to need another true alpha dog. We have 1 with Book, but I believe despite Ayton's natural talents, the lack of dog in him will ultimately keep him from being the dominant #2 a title team needs. Make no mistake, he will get better, but I think looking forward, if we're going to put together a title team, we'll need a true blue #2 or even another #1a/b to go along with Booker/Ayton to compete at the highest level long term. Morant has that potential to be one of the players at the most important position on the floor.

I totally agree with this post. Short term veteran bandaids are not the answer right now. We need to keep building our young core.

 

[SirStefan32]

NOt a chance. Ja will be a better player immediately.

Better at what? I can guarantee you he will not be a better defender, and pretty sure he won't be a better shooter.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Better at what? I can guarantee you he will not be a better defender, and pretty sure he won't be a better shooter.

I think it's a massive stretch to say that Ja will be better than Holliday immediately.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it's a massive stretch to say that Ja will be better than Holliday immediately.

agreed. But if we have a chance to take him, I still think that's the move when thinking long-term... which is what a 19 win team should be doing.

 

[Krangodnzr]

agreed. But if we have a chance to take him, I still think that's the move when thinking long-term... which is what a 19 win team should be doing.

I agree.

I'd draft Morant and probably just stick with Johnson. Use the cap space on PF.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree.

I'd draft Morant and probably just stick with Johnson. Use the cap space on PF.

I would also. I know there are some who think it's the end of the world if Johnson starts at the beginning of the season, but I did see enough when we had everyone together in that 8-13 stretch with Johnson starting that I think that had they had Johnson all season, they're probably more like a 27 win-30 win team. And being that or a little better next season isn't the end of the world, especially if you have Morant learning the ropes and take over by mid-season putting us on an upward trajectory.

30-35 wins should be a realistic goal for next season. Anyone thinking we're going to make a 20 win leap is a little myopic right now, even in the event they could get a Kemba or Holiday. People need to remember that when Nash came to the Suns, that team wasn't a 19 win club. It won 29 games the previous year. And Nash was a freaking unicorn. Holiday or Kemba would have an impact but nothing like Nash was able to do. His ascension from good/sometimes All Star PG to 2 time MVP is a once in a lifetime kind of thing.

 

[Hoop Head]

I totally agree with this post. Short term veteran bandaids are not the answer right now. We need to keep building our young core.

Yet in another thread you're making the case for Derrick Rose. He is a bandaid at best and can not be counted on for long at all. So which is it, do you want a bandaid or not?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yet in another thread you're making the case for Derrick Rose. He is a bandaid at best and can not be counted on for long at all. So which is it, do you want a bandaid or not?

i'm pretty sure JC wants Rose AND Morant. Which might be doable, as opposed to the stronger band-aid like a Holiday, who will cost a ton more and probably the opportunity to draft Morant because the pick would be needed to trade for a Holiday type guy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah I'm down with Rose as a band aid.

 

[1tinsoldier]

You really do want to blame Igor for everything, don't you? ...you want to say he was reminded of something 3 months prior and got angry? Please elaborate because you aren't making sense. There is no proof Warren was disgruntled because of the coaching when he sat because of his injury.

proof? who are you? Detective Columbo of the thought police? i don't need no stinking proof to post what i believe. i wrote details about it 3 months ago. look it up

but i'll give you an example of how disgruntlement gets started:
you started disrespecting me about 3 months ago, so i don't like you, and i'm not inclined to accommodate you.
understand?

I BELIEVE in warren's mind he's another joe johnson who needs more credit and responsiblity

yes, the buck stops with the coach.
regardless of who contributed most to the disgruntlement of joe, bledsoe, dragic, ariza, etc. it's one of the responsibilities of any coach to try and manage player egos and get them back on board.

 

[Hoop Head]

proof? who are you? Detective Columbo of the thought police? i don't need no stinking proof to post what i believe. i wrote details about it 3 months ago. look it up

but i'll give you an example of how disgruntlement gets started:
you started disrespecting me about 3 months ago, so i don't like you, and i'm not inclined to accommodate you.
understand?

I BELIEVE in warren's mind he's another joe johnson who needs more credit and responsiblity

yes, the buck stops with the coach.
regardless of who contributed most to the disgruntlement of joe, bledsoe, dragic, ariza, etc. it's one of the responsibilities of any coach to try and manage player egos and get them back on board.

Continue making things up then. It says more about you than anyone else.

 

[1Sun]

That line up has size and balance. It also has decent defense. Wish we could keep Bender.

It also has no point guard.

 

[1Sun]

I agree.

I'd draft Morant and probably just stick with Johnson. Use the cap space on PF.

So go a third consecutive year without an NBA level point guard? If that happens, and I'm Devin Booker, I ask out immediately.

 

[Mainstreet]

That line up has size and balance. It also has decent defense. Wish we could keep Bender.

We have to see how it all shakes out. The Suns will need some veteran minimum type players to fill out their roster. If the Suns keep him, I see him as an end of the bench player role player.

 

[BC867]

NOt a chance. Ja will be a better player immediately.

A better draft pick than another is one thing.

A rookie to step onto the court with no NBA experience to make the rest of the team better.
That is an impossible dream. It is unrealistic. Ayton didn't. It is too much to expect.

 

[Cheesebeef]

A better draft pick than another is one thing.

A rookie to step onto the court with no NBA experience to make the rest of the team better.
That is an impossible dream. It is unrealistic. Ayton didn't. It is too much to expect.

tell that to Trae Young, Damian Lillard, Luka Doncic. Great PGs can make a difference off the bat. Not turning a terrible team into a title contender overnight, but definitely make progress for what was an awful team to a team starting to rise.

that said, I'd still want a band-aid to start over Morant at the jump and let him ease into the position and game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

tell that to Trae Young, Damian Lillard, Luka Doncic. Great PGs can make a difference off the bat. Not turning a terrible team into a title contender overnight, but definitely make progress for what was an awful team to a team starting to rise.

that said, I'd still want a band-aid to start over Morant at the jump and let him ease into the position and game.

I think Tyler can do that.

 

[Hoop Head]

A better draft pick than another is one thing.

A rookie to step onto the court with no NBA experience to make the rest of the team better.
That is an impossible dream. It is unrealistic. Ayton didn't. It is too much to expect.

Just because Ayton didn't doesn't mean it's not possible. Trae Young and Luka Doncic did and they came into the NBA at the same time as Ayton. A players position impacts how much he effects the game around them and a pass first PG can effect their teammates a great deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Tyler can do that.

I'm not crazy about the idea and it wouldn't be my first option, but I doubt this team is going to a) have salary cap room and b) enough goodwill around the organization to bring in much better. Maybe a Beverly on a one year deal type of guy. If they blow their wad on like 20 per for a guy like Rubio I'm going to break my computer in half and throw it out the window... probably to a lot of the board's glee.