why is everyone giving Green a mulligan on this one?

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Josh played in buffalo. He had a hard time with the weather and said he learned to play in it. Seems he has to leanr every single situation. Just once Id liek to see him go into something new and do something good.

BTW red Vick played in the game against us. You must have missed that one entirely.

This is what I wrote: As far as Buffalo, That was before the bencing and it was a horrible game, but w's were still on the board.

Josh may have not played great, but he gave us a chance to win most weeks!


Buffalo was a terrible game I agree but 3 and 1 is 3 and 1...Only W's matter

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

This is sheer madness. Did King give up 157 rushing yards to CAR, including 121 and 3 TDs to Nick FREAKING Goings?!? Our defense didnt make the trip to Carolina, plain and simple.

A-Bomb

I will say in our defense, that Goings had two more great games after that

Maybe I bellive in Josh too much, but Green threw the whole team off with the bencing.

The team believes in him and, in my opinion it shows...

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is what I wrote: As far as Buffalo, That was before the bencing and it was a horrible game, but w's were still on the board.

Josh may have not played great, but he gave us a chance to win most weeks!


Buffalo was a terrible game I agree but 3 and 1 is 3 and 1...Only W's matter

so you don't think W's against 2 of the three worst teams in football has anything to do with anything, huh? There should be absolutely zero look into the context of those W's, right? The D gave us a chance to win most weeks along with running game - Josh was giving us a chance to LOSE close games, but the D, continually holding off the Seahawks(after Josh gave them the lead with a pick for a TD in the fourth) and continually sacking Kurt Warner with a three point lead and scoring a TD against the Dolphins when we were gettingbeaten around down 14-3 late in the third quarter - THAT WAS WHAT WAS GIVING US A CHANCE TO WIN GAMES.

You're acting as if Josh had been playing during that stretch of games as he is now - that ain't the case. We beat the Phins and the Giants - barely - both of which are horrendous football teams and got BLOWN OUT by the only team in that stretch that was worth a damn - that says something even though you won't admit it.

 

[abomb]

Maybe I bellive in Josh too much, but Green threw the whole team off with the bencing.

The team believes in him and, in my opinion it shows...

So by your logic, if the Cards Defense has a game constent with their other performances this year and the Cardinals lose, then it is Josh's fault.

We can agree to disagree; we must remember we are both Cards fans.

A-Bomb

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Cardinal Bob - my friend - you are simply someone who likes to start trouble. If the guy wasn't throwing for 90 yards and being a reason we almost lost to both the 2nd and 3rd worst teams in football in back to back weeks - we wouldn't have said boo. But the fact was he was and we did. But keep telling yourself that we all "hate" Josh because then you wouldn't have to fess up to the reality that HE HADN'T PLAYED WELL TO THAT POINT.

I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm merely pointing out the ridiculous lack of patience displayed on this board, this "on damand" mentality that has everyone wanting everything NOW, NOW, NOW!!

Who cares if he throws for 90 yards (besides Ouchie, who seems to believe that passing yards = wins)?!? WE WON THE GAME! It doesn't matter how many passing yards someone has! It matters who won! Winning ugly is still winning! You don't get style points in the NFL! And the obttom line is we still won!

I know Josh wasn't playing all that well at that point...I'm not claiming he was. But I am patient enough to believe that if given time, he'd become a very servicable QB. Apparently, you are not. Regardless of the state of the NFC this year, and the fact that the Cardinals have a chance to win the division at 7-9 (which is ludicrous), I am under no illusions that this is a playoff team in any way, shape or form. Maybe next year (probably based on GReen's drafting this year), but not this year.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

You're acting as if Josh had been playing during that stretch of games as he is now - that ain't the case. We beat the Phins and the Giants - barely - both of which are horrendous football teams and got BLOWN OUT by the only team in that stretch that was worth a damn - that says something even though you won't admit it.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe that at all, I just feel that Josh managed the game well enough to keep us in games versus teams that were as bad as we are. Those are evenly matched games.

The 2 49er loses are more a product of bad defense in those games rather than Josh's performance...

I believe Josh still has a way to go, but it is obvious that he gives us the best chance to win and we shouldn't have had to go through every QB on the roster to figure that out...that is what pre-season is for.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Bob werent you one of the guys that said to give him 10 games?

He got his 10 games he still sucks. Quit whining. (if it wasnt you there were plenty that said in week 4 to give the guy 10-12 games. He will have had 12 and still suck.

No, I never put a definite # of games on his progression. I merely said give him time...which you obviously are not willing to do. You are most certainly one of the impatient "give me instant results now" types I was referring to. By your reasoning, you would have given up on Peyton Manning after the Colts went 3-13 in his rookie year...and given up on Try Aikman after he led the Cowpukes to a stellar 1-15 mark in his rookie year.

 

[Russ Smith]

I believe we would have had a good chance to beat Carolina if King did not start. The team was totally out of sync and commited a ton of false starts etc.--in my opinion--due to the lack of time with Shaun King. Shaun King is the reason Cards lost the game because of the rediculous amount of interceptions and fumbles. If McCown plays in that game 4th qtr. score probably would have been Pathers 14 and Cards 10--giving the Cards plenty of op. to win the game.

.

I happened across a Season Review of Minnesota, I think 92 recently it was the year Green benched Gannon for Salisbury. It was interesting in that a very young Green was on camera explaining how you hate to change QB's midseason unless you have to because of the huge impact it has on the team. QB's have to be the leader of the offense, you can't have 2 leaders on offense in the NFL, that's why rotating QB's doesn't work. You only do it when there's a CLEAR reason. Then he went on about how going from one game to the next is a FIVE day process of breaking down mistakes the previous game, and correcting them, and that's another reason changing QB's midseason is tough, because you have to do it immediately after the game because the new QB needs those 5 days to prepare, otherwise it's unfair to the new QB.

Struck me so many ways, Green went to King Saturday evening for a sunday game, I guess the 5 day rule didn't apply because of Josh' concussion, we may never know on that one. When Green went to Navarre, he did it on Monday, clearly he realized that he couldn't do to Navarre what he did to King.

The way the schedule worked out this year made the whole thing tougher. the logical game to make any switch was the first Seattle game, it was after a bye, at home, but of course the prior game was SF, Josh' best game of the season to date, so making a switch at that point would have ticked a lot of people off.

See Rats, these threads get going completely without me ..

 

[Cheesebeef]

I know Josh wasn't playing all that well at that point...I'm not claiming he was. But I am patient enough to believe that if given time, he'd become a very servicable QB. Apparently, you are not.

first - that's just wrong. If I had seen any of the flashes in Josh that he's displayed in the last two weeks, I would have had no problem giving him more of shot and even AT THE TIME - I was saying I didn't mind if he started more games, but I was seeing regression from what I saw as earlier this year progression from the kid. Sorry - maybe you do have more patience than I do - but mine was wearing thin because I could understand that wins are wins - but some wins are more impressive than other s(like beating - oh say a tema with an above .500 record versus beating two of the three worst teams in the league or putting up 17 points against a D who had just lost both it's starting DEs and only scoring 17 points because Emmitt had his last day in the sun). You are making claims about what other people believe here and that's where I think I have problems with what you are saying, in addition to the useless calling out of "people who just hate Josh" and all that gunk.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

This is sheer madness. Did King give up 157 rushing yards to CAR, including 121 and 3 TDs to Nick FREAKING Goings?!? Our defense didnt make the trip to Carolina, plain and simple.

A-Bomb

Did it ever occur to you (and I'm using you as an example for all that are pointing out how our defense played so badly in Carolina) that the defense may have lost a lot of its fire after the sudden QB switch and that may have had a lot to do with their underpreforming against the Panthers? I mean, I know it requires that one use their brain and actually think...but it's really not that hard. Give it a try!

 

[CaptTurbo]

Did it ever occur to you (and I'm using you as an example for all that are pointing out how our defense played so badly in Carolina) that the defense may have lost a lot of its fire after the sudden QB switch and that may have had a lot to do with their underpreforming against the Panthers? I mean, I know it requires that one use their brain and actually think...but it's really not that hard. Give it a try!

I think they were losing their fire as Josh kept coming out game after game. try that one on for size

 

[Russ Smith]

This is sheer madness. Did King give up 157 rushing yards to CAR, including 121 and 3 TDs to Nick FREAKING Goings?!? Our defense didnt make the trip to Carolina, plain and simple.

A-Bomb

I agree with your point but in fairness, Goings has THREE 100 yard games SINCE that game and is proving that Carolina's OL is really good at run blocking and you can put anybody behind it.

Foster had 174 in his first start, Davis had 1400+ last year, hell Brad Hoover had 99 against San Diego which leads the NFL in fewest rushing yards per game. Carolina can run the ball on anybody.

Clearly the defense fell off in the starts with King and Navarre, but in part because King and Navarre turned the ball over so much.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Sorry - maybe you do have more patience than I do - but mine was wearing thin because I could understand that wins are wins - but some wins are more impressive than other s(like beating - oh say a tema with an above .500 record versus beating two of the three worst teams in the league or putting up 17 points against a D who had just lost both it's starting DEs and only scoring 17 points because Emmitt had his last day in the sun). .

Cheese:

It does not matter how impressive a win is...Its the win that matters, should the Pats bench Brady because he regressed during the Dolphin game (Nice interception by Femi's brother) on of the worst teams in Football?

 

[Cardinal Bob]

I think they were losing their fire as Josh kept coming out game after game. try that one on for size

Sure didn't look that way in the Giants game! The defense played great after the first two Giant possessions.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Cheese:

It does not matter how impressive a win is...Its the win that matters, should the Pats bench Brady because he regressed during the Dolphin game (Nice interception by Femi's brother) on of the worst teams in Football?

OMG we are comparing Josh's putrid play to Brady's one bad game now.

This is getting hysterical. Somebody lock this thread!

 

[red desert]

I wrote this on another topic, but I believe this question deserves its own forum

Benching him was a terrible idea, the team was 3-1 over previous 4 games, the decision sent the Cards reeling for 4 weeks

That being said, Josh may have had a fire lit under him because of the benching, but one game would have sufficed!

Having him sit 3 more games while King and Navarre floundered was simple arrogance.

Heck, if Navarre doesn't get injured Green probably would have kept him in and the cards would end up 4-12.

I give the credit to Josh and only Josh on this one, why is everyone giving Green a mulligan on this one?

The 4 game benching was a complete and utter mistake!

That being said, I still want Green as our coach, but giving him credit for benching our starting QB when we could have been in the driver's seat for the division title is going a little to far.

Go Josh and Go CARDS!!

I totally agree.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Sure didn't look that way in the Giants game! The defense played great after the first two Giant possessions.

oh lets play pick one instance to back up my stance game!!!!!

Hey defense looked good for King against the Jets!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

OMG we are comparing Josh's putrid play to Brady's one bad game now.

This is getting hysterical. Somebody lock this thread!

I am not comparing the two, I am merely pointing out the fact that all QB's have bad days(I know, some more than others) So, Josh regressed in that game...THE Y STILL WON!

That is all I care about...wins

 

[Russ Smith]

Cheese:

It does not matter how impressive a win is...Its the win that matters, should the Pats bench Brady because he regressed during the Dolphin game (Nice interception by Femi's brother) on of the worst teams in Football?

Come on that's a complete strawman they were 12-1 at the time and the Dolphins have one of the better defenses in football, just a horrible offense. For a Qb to have a bad day against Miami is not all that shocking.

The real problem with the benching was the timing of it, he didn't give King anywhere near ample time to prepare for his first start, and then when King proved there was a reason Tampa got rid of him, instead of going back to Josh, Green went to Navarre. And then with Navarre injured and struggling, Green STAYED with Navarre instead of going back to Josh in the Detroit game.

The decision to bench Josh initially made sense, it was the timing and decision to go back to Josh that was wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't believe that at all, I just feel that Josh managed the game well enough to keep us in games versus teams that were as bad as we are. Those are evenly matched games.

The 2 49er loses are more a product of bad defense in those games rather than Josh's performance...

that's just it - as far as your first point up above - OUR SCHEDULE GOT TOUGHER - Carolina had alsready started their turnaround and the Jets arfe one fo the best teams in the league so it wouldn't have mattered if Josh could keep us in games versus teams as bad as us - because we weren't playing teams as bad as us. And even so - it was still the D that was keeping us in those games anyway.

As to point two - I'll give you the first Niner's game - the majority of that one goes on the D, but not the second one. When you are down 21-3 at the half - that means EVERYTHING is wrong. The Niners are horrendous and for our D to have given up 21 point sis bad, but for our O to have only scored 3 is JUST AS BAD - both units came together on the second half, but just like it's being overlooked even this weekend when the D pitched a shutout and yet all the talk was about Josh - the defense never gets enough credit because the tangible results - ie - score - is really all that matters with casual fans.

I think you're theory would hold more water if Josh goes out there and rips it up again this week and leads us to a huge road W against the Hawks, but merely playing well *and losing* to the worst team in the league and then coming back and beating a Rams squad(who had completely melted down, only having barely beaten the Niners for their only win in their previous 4 games losing by an average margin of 34-14 before us) just doesn't say ALL THAT MUCH - yet.

I can't wait for Sunday's game though - Josh can really cement himself as QB here which means it would be a position we wouldn't have to worry about.

 

[abomb]

I agree with your point but in fairness, Goings has THREE 100 yard games SINCE that game and is proving that Carolina's OL is really good at run blocking and you can put anybody behind it.

Good point. I guess my whole take on it as that Josh has received a bit too much credit in the wins and an adequate amount of blame in the losses. (Man I really want us to whoop the Seahawks on Sunday, seems we are toughening up by fighting with each other! )

Go Cards!

A-Bomb

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese:

It does not matter how impressive a win is...Its the win that matters, should the Pats bench Brady because he regressed during the Dolphin game (Nice interception by Femi's brother) on of the worst teams in Football?

You just jumped the Shark. Yes - the Pats should bench the two-time Super Bowl MVP and the guy who has led them to a 12-2 record because of one bad game. The above post is sheer stupidity because there is NO BASIS IN COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO.

 

[ajcardfan]

If Josh puts together a game this Sunday much like the one he just had, I think everyone will be much happier. Including Dennis Green.

 

[Russ Smith]

You just jumped the Shark. Yes - the Pats should bench the two-time Super Bowl MVP and the guy who has led them to a 12-2 record because of one bad game. The above post is sheer stupidity because there is NO BASIS IN COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO.

I love that jump the shark phrase, forget where I first heard it explained but it is a PERFECT one.

Fonzie on waterskis, who came up with that one?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I love that jump the shark phrase, forget where I first heard it explained but it is a PERFECT one.

Fonzie on waterskis, who came up with that one?

In his leather jackett no less! TV exec's are ******** - that's all I can say.