Who will be the "Surprise Cuts" that won't make the final 53?

[SECTION 11]

Tue, 5 Nov 2002
The Arizona Republic reports Arizona Cardinals WR David Boston had just one catch against St. Louis and also had two dropped passes. Head coach Dave McGinnis was at a loss for what's wrong with Boston, saying that Boston needs to catch those passes and that he doesn't know what else to say.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Tue, 5 Nov 2002
The Arizona Republic reports Arizona Cardinals WR David Boston had just one catch against St. Louis and also had two dropped passes. Head coach Dave McGinnis was at a loss for what's wrong with Boston, saying that Boston needs to catch those passes and that he doesn't know what else to say.

Boston turned into a head case last year even before his injury. Many on this board at the time said that, and I didn't want to believe it. I was his biggest supporter, but I now know better.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh and by the way Keroauc....THESE AREN'T MY STATS! THESE ARE STATS PROVIDED BY THE LEADER IN ALL SPORTS STATS: STATS INC.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Kerouac, that proves NOTHING.

You have to remember that this isn't DROP percentage this is CATCH percentage. Having lame-armmed Plummer throw to him with his 53% completion percentage adds to his not catching as well as a severe bicep bruise that he played through because we needed him (he got the injury in his big Seahawks game).

Yep what that stat shows is what % of balls thrown to McAddley were caught, it doesn't show drops it doesn't show if the ball was catchable or not. Some of that is clearly they never worked much together and weren't in synch, some of it was just Jake not being able to get the ball deep. Longer passes are lower % passes, when a defense has 8-9 guys within 5 yards of the LOS I would think you want your WR's going downfield so McAddley's tendency to run the routes longer make sense to me last year.

How many times did he have to stop running, look back, wave for the fair catch while waiting for a floater to get there, was like Boston his first 2 years here when Jake just couldn't figure out when to throw the deep balls he was constantly underthrowing him.

Nobody is saying McAddley is Randy Moss mind you, just that if he dropped balls there was an obvious physical reason why. BUt at least he got some separation and showed he could get deep.

 

[kerouac9]

As much as I want to believe IWon.com's stats, I'll wait for a legitimate accounting. DB dropped passes last season, that I'll agree to. Too many passes, when he needed to catch them. So did Frank Sanders, last year and in 2001. Lots of WRs drop passes. Especially WRs who constantly get double or triple covered, with safties looking to kill them after the catch. It's less excusable for WRs who have no one near them (at least three yards) in a zone, and it bouces off their outstreched palms. I was there; I saw it happen. To McAddley.

It's really hard to compare DB and McAddley, because they're in totally different classes as players, but I hold DB's drops against him, as I hold McAddley's. I also hold McAddley's lack of skill against him, as I credit DB's presence of it towards his account. Compare DB's rookie year vs. McAddley's rookie year, and there's no comparison.

I think that McAddley will be released this offseason or placed back on the practice squad, because I think there are five to seven better WRs on the roster than him, or there will be (Boldin, Johnson, Foster, Gilmore, Savage, and probably a post-June 1 addition like Muhammad (who PFW is saying is in the Card's sights come June 1 [Krang: See, this is called "legitimate citing of sources"]). McAddley probably won't return, so I wouldn't be surprised if we kept Kasper instead of him, so that the Republic can do another "Hi, my name is what?" fluff piece on him come October or November. I'm not sure if I agree with it, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
As much as I want to believe IWon.com's stats, I'll wait for a legitimate accounting. DB dropped passes last season, that I'll agree to. Too many passes, when he needed to catch them. So did Frank Sanders, last year and in 2001. Lots of WRs drop passes. Especially WRs who constantly get double or triple covered, with safties looking to kill them after the catch. It's less excusable for WRs who have no one near them (at least three yards) in a zone, and it bouces off their outstreched palms. I was there; I saw it happen. To McAddley.

It's really hard to compare DB and McAddley, because they're in totally different classes as players, but I hold DB's drops against him, as I hold McAddley's. I also hold McAddley's lack of skill against him, as I credit DB's presence of it towards his account. Compare DB's rookie year vs. McAddley's rookie year, and there's no comparison.

I think that McAddley will be released this offseason or placed back on the practice squad, because I think there are five to seven better WRs on the roster than him, or there will be (Boldin, Johnson, Foster, Gilmore, Savage, and probably a post-June 1 addition like Muhammad (who PFW is saying is in the Card's sights come June 1 [Krang: See, this is called "legitimate citing of sources"]). McAddley probably won't return, so I wouldn't be surprised if we kept Kasper instead of him, so that the Republic can do another "Hi, my name is what?" fluff piece on him come October or November. I'm not sure if I agree with it, but I wouldn't be surprised.

DID YOU READ THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE? THESE STATS ARE PROVIDED BY STATS INC.!

God you really are hard headed!

 

[Krangodnzr]

You are a Kerouac.

My source is: STATS INC. the biggest Stat company for all sports.

Your source: some "guy" from some article who says that McAddley didn't catch a lot of passes thrown his way (without any real insight whatsoever.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
My source is: STATS INC. the biggest Stat company for all sports.

It was my impression that the Elias Sports Bureau was the authority on all statistical tracking for bascially all the major American sports.

I didn't see your STATS, Inc, very caps-lock-intensive post, because I was writing mine.

I think I'm going to ignore your posts for a while. You're a little too out of control.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kerouac, all I am saying is:

DBo dropped 10 passes last year. If you have an issue with that, contact STATS INC.

McAddley wasn't as bad as you make him out. He made mental mistakes (which are very correctable) due to lack of playing time and youth. He dropped SOME passes, but not that many. He is not a good NFL receiver, but he isn't terrible either.

I don't have anything against DBo (and why does it matter anyway, he doesn't play for the Cards) other than the fact that he said he wanted to be here, and bolted (pun intended) the first second he had a chance. His attitude last year was terrible and many on here (before you came here) reported that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9

I think I'm going to ignore your posts for a while. You're a little too out of control.

Good ignore em' all you want. I took great offense to you saying that I made up stats. I don't do that Kerouac, and I look at that as the lowest of the low (Lex territory).

If you want to disagree, fine do so all you want. But don't question my integrity. I'm not questioning yours.

I actually enjoy your posts, because they are generally well thought out and thought provoking. You have actually convinced me of a few things in the past.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Good ignore em' all you want. I took great offense to you saying that I made up stats.

If you want to disagree, fine do so all you want. But don't question my integrity. I'm not questioning yours.

You did accuse him of making up stats.
And to make it worse, when he cited his source, all you did was make a weak little girly slap attempt at discrediting it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
You did accuse him of making up stats.
And to make it worse, when he cited his source, all you did was make a weak little girly slap attempt at discrediting it.

Is this to me or him?

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Is this to me or him?

It's to kerouac.

 

[kerouac9]

Isn't it nice to get resolution on spats within threads?

I'm sorry I questioned your stats, Krang. Perhaps you'd posted the source before, but for a while, it sounded like a Lex-esque assertion. STATS, Inc. generally has some good stuff. I'll check the link to see their methodology, because if I've learned anything from too much Madden, it's that apparently a drop to me is not always a drop to those in the know. A good thing that STATS does is tell you exactly how they're measuring stuff. I wish I'd posted the link to that McAddley thing, because it was a good analysis, but I'm frightened of getting sued by Disney.

Personally, I don't think that McAddley is a great WR, or a good one, or even a decent one. I think that he'd make an adequate #4 and a good #5 (instead of having Marcel or Emmitt running routes). I think his speed is overrated on this board, and I question his concentration, especally when he "got his shot" to make his mark. I hope I'm wrong.

I think that we can agree that the WR situation as it stands is incredibly concerning, and if we're wagering that we can convince Muhummad to come here and be our #1, and that's what our passing offense is depending on, we might be in for a very, very long season.

Also, I think it's way funny that Section 11 chimes in every four posts or so and says "Yeah, that's right, Krang!"

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Isn't it nice to get resolution on spats within threads?

I'm sorry I questioned your stats, Krang. Perhaps you'd posted the source before, but for a while, it sounded like a Lex-esque assertion. STATS, Inc. generally has some good stuff. I'll check the link to see their methodology, because if I've learned anything from too much Madden, it's that apparently a drop to me is not always a drop to those in the know. A good thing that STATS does is tell you exactly how they're measuring stuff. I wish I'd posted the link to that McAddley thing, because it was a good analysis, but I'm frightened of getting sued by Disney.

Personally, I don't think that McAddley is a great WR, or a good one, or even a decent one. I think that he'd make an adequate #4 and a good #5 (instead of having Marcel or Emmitt running routes). I think his speed is overrated on this board, and I question his concentration, especally when he "got his shot" to make his mark. I hope I'm wrong.

I think that we can agree that the WR situation as it stands is incredibly concerning, and if we're wagering that we can convince Muhummad to come here and be our #1, and that's what our passing offense is depending on, we might be in for a very, very long season.

Also, I think it's way funny that Section 11 chimes in every four posts or so and says "Yeah, that's right, Krang!"

OK, as usual....we do actually agree once all the different rhetoric is out the window. I think A LITTLE higher of McAddley, but not much. I think that he should be our number 3 this year, but might have to be our number 1.

We are screwed this year, and I don't know how much Muhammed will help, though I do think that overall he has been better than M-Rob. I think this year is (GOD I HATE SAYING THIS) a year to develop our talent more, and realistically, we should be competitive by 2004.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I think it's way funny that Section 11 chimes in every four posts or so and says "Yeah, that's right, Krang!"

I just don't have any patience for fallacies.
I don't care if it's you in particular or anyone else that applies them.

One of your first posts at AZCentral was "You are an idiot" for suggesting that Andre Johnson would go in the top ten. Your reasoning was that you'd never heard of him.



"As much as I want to believe IWon.com's stats, I'll wait for a legitimate accounting."
Who needs to read crap like this?

The problem isn't stats, receivers, quarterbacks or anything else. It's your social ineptitude that rubs people the wrong way.
I'll be more thick skinned. Sorry.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
It was my impression that the Elias Sports Bureau was the authority on all statistical tracking for bascially all the major American sports.

I didn't see your STATS, Inc, very caps-lock-intensive post, because I was writing mine.

I think I'm going to ignore your posts for a while. You're a little too out of control.

Elias is primarily baseball, Stats inc seems to be the closest to official for NFL stats. THey have an annual book for most sports the NFL ones are really good although these days most of the stats in the book can be found online.

STATS in all caps is their logo by the way, not Krang's attempt to make it look important.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Isn't it nice to get resolution on spats within threads?

I'm sorry I questioned your stats, Krang. Perhaps you'd posted the source before, but for a while, it sounded like a Lex-esque assertion. STATS, Inc. generally has some good stuff. I'll check the link to see their methodology, because if I've learned anything from too much Madden, it's that apparently a drop to me is not always a drop to those in the know.

From the 2001 NFL Handbook

Dropped pass "any incomplete pass which was catchable with normal effort. To determine if a pass was dropped, STATS compares and reviews the judgment of multiple reporters."

They actually hire people to watch films and record this stuff.

They and Elias did a lot of cool stuff in baseball that was largely ignored by people who didn't trust stats. The one that stands out was Defensive Average. In essence they divided the field into "zones" and each fielder had a zone, and there was overlap between zones. THen they recorded where each ball was hit, in what zone, and what % of balls in each zone were converted into outs(which is ultimately the goal of defense in baseball). Completely ignores assists, errors, fielding % basically it just says Ozzie Smith converts 5% more outs on balls hit into his zone than other MLB SS's(just made up I honestly don't remember specifics).

It was fascinating, guys you were told were marvelous fielders were actually not that good (Cal Ripken was consistently near the bottom annually at SS despite all the hype he simply got to less balls than other SS did). I am fairly certain STATS did that one and I don't think they still do but I'm not positive. STATS and Elias are the primary reason you see things like OBP and SLUG% on ESPN now they campaigned to convince people they meant more than RBI's and BA.

 

[kerouac9]

Section 11, I wasn't hating on you, and my social retardation is something that I'm trying to work on in my own life: I know it's a problem. I just thought the way it came across on this thread was really funny. I don't remember anything that I'd written on AZCentral, except my breakdown of TJ vs. Marcel vs. Elite RBs. I do appreciate you recommending this board to me, because it's kept me from staring blankly at HotorNot.com for hours on end.

I thought Elias kept NFL stats, too. I remember it was Elias that had to be convinced to give Aeneas the record for longest INT or Fumble return after that game vs. the Redskins just before the stadium vote. I like STATS, Inc. I'm always excited when they do an analysis of something for ESPN Insider. For the record, Krang had two unnecessary AllCaps posts that had STATS, Inc. as one word in the post that needed to be capitalized.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Section 11, I wasn't hating on you, and my social retardation is something that I'm trying to work on in my own life: I know it's a problem. I just thought the way it came across on this thread was really funny. I don't remember anything that I'd written on AZCentral, except my breakdown of TJ vs. Marcel vs. Elite RBs. I do appreciate you recommending this board to me, because it's kept me from staring blankly at HotorNot.com for hours on end.

I thought Elias kept NFL stats, too. I remember it was Elias that had to be convinced to give Aeneas the record for longest INT or Fumble return after that game vs. the Redskins just before the stadium vote. I like STATS, Inc. I'm always excited when they do an analysis of something for ESPN Insider. For the record, Krang had two unnecessary AllCaps posts that had STATS, Inc. as one word in the post that needed to be capitalized.

I was going to post that Elias does mainly Baseball....but Russ beat me to it.

The way I look at it.....you are an a-hole Kerouac.....but so am I . That's why we get into it sometimes. We both have our opinions and we stick to them until thoroughly proven otherwise. I admire that about you.....at least you aren't too wishy-washy.

 

[SweetD]

My suprise cut would be kerouac9. With his on the board troubles is not the type of post the Bidwills like.

And Stats .com don't lie.

 

[Matt L]

hey russ, the deal with cal though was that he was always in great position to field the baseball, that was what made him so special was that he had talent but he had alot of baseball smarts too.

 

[Harpo]

Skkorp quote "Shaking Kevin Kasper's hand, while sizing him up - pun intended - Kevin looked to be 5' 9.5" and 175 lbs. He's buffed but small.

Bryan Gilmore looked to be a legitimate 6', maybe more, but he is sinewy, not bulky. My guess is he doesn't push 180 lbs."

Here is a picture of kasper on stilts next to the 6 ft tall Keith Poole and Scottie Montgomery.

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You see Skorp, the NFL has this thing called the scouting combine held in Indy every year. What they do is measure and weigh every player invited. (and I think they use something more sophisticated than shaking a guys hand) These aren't NBA heights, but the real deal. They don't give guys the benefit of the doubt. At the combine Kasper was 6ft, 199lbs. Believe me, they didn't add 2.5 inches to his height to make him look good. The kids size isn't an issue. If he would have run a 4.7 at the combine (as our 2nd rd pick did) that probably would have been an issue.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Harpo
Here is a picture of kasper on stilts next to the 6 ft tall Keith Poole and Scottie Montgomery.



You see Skorp, the NFL has this thing called the scouting combine held in Indy every year. What they do is measure and weigh every player invited. (and I think they use something more sophisticated than shaking a guys hand) These aren't NBA heights, but the real deal. They don't give guys the benefit of the doubt. At the combine Kasper was 6ft, 199lbs. Believe me, they didn't add 2.5 inches to his height to make him look good. The kids size isn't an issue. If he would have run a 4.7 at the combine (as our 2nd rd pick did) that probably would have been an issue.

Ah but Boldin will be twice the receiver Kasper is. He might've run a 4.7 at the combine (due to an ACL tear a little over a year ago) but he was running in the low 4.6s and is quickly regaining his speed. Boldin is also 6'1, 216....

 

[marshallrider]

Ah but Boldin will be twice the receiver Kasper is. He might've run a 4.7 at the combine (due to an ACL tear a little over a year ago) but he was running in the low 4.6s and is quickly regaining his speed. Boldin is also 6'1, 216....

I think we should wait to see him on the field before you start making speculations about a rookie like Boldin.
I bet you know nothing about the guy except maybe seeing him play once or twice and reading some draft "experts" take on him.