What a Hard Draft to Evaluate

[Chopper0080]

Rondale is way better than Dortch. And he is not a running back. That is just crazy talk.

You really must not remember his 3 game stretch last year where Kliff finally used him correctly.

What statistical backing shows Moore is "way better" than Dortch?

 

[BritCard]

What statistical backing shows Moore is "way better" than Dortch?

Rondale wins on all these but 2

These are all from last year in pretty much the same role. Although most importantly Rondale had 52 yards per game and Dortch had 29.

	Moore	Dortch
Yards per team pass attempt	1.38​	0.74​
True Catch rate	83.70%​	88.1​
Yards per route run	1.67​	1.47​
Yards per reception	10.1​	9​
Target seperation	2.13​	1.38​
Contested catch rate	50%​	42.90%​
QBR per target	99.9​	101​
Route win rate	45.60%​	40.7​
aDot	5.3​	5.7​
Yards after catch per target	5​	4.3​

 

[BulldogCard]

It often takes 2-3 years to evaluate drafts, each pick. It looked like more of the same as other Cards drafts but we'll have to see. The Standford wr, Wilson is good when he's actually playing. The dbs, pass rushers also questions about all but round 2s edge pick. MO went OL in round 1 which was a need but kind of reached. He did a good job in getting future picks. But can he select good draft picks. I say that because passing in on Anderson was bold. It might have been ordered for him not to go that route and go OL. That is a big factor in that job.

 

[kerouac9]

Rondale wins on all these but 2

These are all from last year in pretty much the same role. Although most importantly Rondale had 52 yards per game and Dortch had 29.

	Moore	Dortch
Yards per team pass attempt	1.38​	0.74​
True Catch rate	83.70%​	88.1​
Yards per route run	1.67​	1.47​
Yards per reception	10.1​	9​
Target seperation	2.13​	1.38​
Contested catch rate	50%​	42.90%​
QBR per target	99.9​	101​
Route win rate	45.60%​	40.7​
aDot	5.3​	5.7​
Yards after catch per target	5​	4.3​

Small sample size theatre. Moore had 56 targets last year; Dortch had 64. No breakdowns from these small sample sizes are indicative of anything.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Small sample size theatre. Moore had 56 targets last year; Dortch had 64. No breakdowns from these small sample sizes are indicative of anything.

Agree on this....and it really goes to show just how similar they are. With such similarity, why not just use the guy who isn't hurt every other game?

 

[BritCard]

Small sample size theatre. Moore had 56 targets last year; Dortch had 64. No breakdowns from these small sample sizes are indicative of anything.

"What stats prove Rondale is better?"

Shows stats showing Rondale is better.

"Yeah but it's a small sample size"

Rondale played 459 snaps last year. Dorth played 467. Practically identical. And Moore beat him in nearly every way. We could use that, or we could use vibes.

 

[kerouac9]

"What stats prove Rondale is better?"

Shows stats showing Rondale is better.

"Yeah but it's a small sample size"

Rondale played 459 snaps last year. Dorth played 467. Practically identical. And Moore beat him in nearly every way. We could use that, or we could use vibes.

Yes, but seven of the metrics you cited have targets as the denominator. I'm not sure why "Yards per team pass attempt" is even a valuable metric. What does it indicate?

Rondale was given every opportunity to excel and validate his hype. He barely outperformed undrafted Greg Dortch in even the cherry picked metrics you provided.

While missing nine games due to injury.

 

[Stout]

Yes, but seven of the metrics you cited have targets as the denominator. I'm not sure why "Yards per team pass attempt" is even a valuable metric. What does it indicate?

Rondale was given every opportunity to excel and validate his hype. He barely outperformed undrafted Greg Dortch in even the cherry picked metrics you provided.

While missing nine games due to injury.

Yeah, of those metrics, maybe two were relevant?

 

[MadCardDisease]

"What stats prove Rondale is better?"

Shows stats showing Rondale is better.

"Yeah but it's a small sample size"

Rondale played 459 snaps last year. Dorth played 467. Practically identical. And Moore beat him in nearly every way. We could use that, or we could use vibes.

Rondale was available for 8 games last season.

Dortch was available for 16 games last season.

The best ability...

And I am the biggest Rondale supporter around. He just needs to stay healthy but hasn't been able to so far.

 

[Garthshort]

It often takes 2-3 years to evaluate drafts, each pick. It looked like more of the same as other Cards drafts but we'll have to see. The Standford wr, Wilson is good when he's actually playing. The dbs, pass rushers also questions about all but round 2s edge pick. MO went OL in round 1 which was a need but kind of reached. He did a good job in getting future picks. But can he select good draft picks. I say that because passing in on Anderson was bold. It might have been ordered for him not to go that route and go OL. That is a big factor in that job.

Why was Paris Johnson a reach?

 

[BritCard]

Rondale was available for 8 games last season.

Dortch was available for 16 games last season.

The best ability...

And I am the biggest Rondale supporter around. He just needs to stay healthy but hasn't been able to so far.

That's not the argument though. The argument is which players is better, and it's Rondale.

 

[BulldogCard]

Why was Paris Johnson a reach?

Not in itself; just the way he went about it. I felt like some picks got squandered in the process. He did get his man but I wanted him to stay put and still get his guy then build up those trenches.

 

[phillycard]

I watched JJ Artega-Whiteside fail miserably, up close and personal. Wilson just totally reminds me of him. I'm sure it's the Stanford thing but I'm worried for sure about this pick.

 

[kerouac9]

That's not the argument though. The argument is which players is better, and it's Rondale.

Rondale isn’t so much more productive that the difference overwhelms only being available half the time.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I watched JJ Artega-Whiteside fail miserably, up close and personal. Wilson just totally reminds me of him. I'm sure it's the Stanford thing but I'm worried for sure about this pick.

Whiteside just essentially beat everyone on 50-50 balls. He wasn't a good route runner at all.

 

[oaken1]

when we drafted Rondale I suggested moving him to RB and got poo poo'd...
but the kid is absolutely a Barry Sanders clone.... same height and weight, same 40 time, same body type, same personality, neither worked out at the combine, but private workout numbers are nearly identical all across the board.
If we ran that wide zone run scheme that BA ran with DJ, Rondale could be a very dangerous weapon out of the backfield. he would probably be a 1500 yard back...cant imagine what he might do if he played a full season

 

[BritCard]

I watched JJ Artega-Whiteside fail miserably, up close and personal. Wilson just totally reminds me of him. I'm sure it's the Stanford thing but I'm worried for sure about this pick.

Whiteside couldn't run a route to save his life

 

[BritCard]

when we drafted Rondale I suggested moving him to RB and got poo poo'd...
but the kid is absolutely a Barry Sanders clone.... same height and weight, same 40 time, same body type, same personality, neither worked out at the combine, but private workout numbers are nearly identical all across the board.
If we ran that wide zone run scheme that BA ran with DJ, Rondale could be a very dangerous weapon out of the backfield. he would probably be a 1500 yard back...cant imagine what he might do if he played a full season

There's a vast difference between being elusive in the open field and having the experience, patience, vision and fortitude to run through and into a bunch of 300lb dudes.

 

[unseenaz]

when we drafted Rondale I suggested moving him to RB and got poo poo'd...
but the kid is absolutely a Barry Sanders clone.... same height and weight, same 40 time, same body type, same personality, neither worked out at the combine, but private workout numbers are nearly identical all across the board.
If we ran that wide zone run scheme that BA ran with DJ, Rondale could be a very dangerous weapon out of the backfield. he would probably be a 1500 yard back...cant imagine what he might do if he played a full season

Can't even stay healthy at WR, no chance he plays a full season at RB.

 

[Dayman]

Curiously omitted from the Rondale vs Dortch stats:

Drops
Moore - 6 (10.7% of targets)
Dortch - 0 (0% of targets)

6 drops in 8 games is an issue, especially on 56 targets.

 

[Stout]

Curiously omitted from the Rondale vs Dortch stats:

Drops
Moore - 6 (10.7% of targets)
Dortch - 0 (0% of targets)

6 drops in 8 games is an issue, especially on 56 targets.

A real stat, too, not number of yards the hot dog guy has to run to watch the player on the field stats.

 

[Garthshort]

Not in itself; just the way he went about it. I felt like some picks got squandered in the process. He did get his man but I wanted him to stay put and still get his guy then build up those trenches.

The way the Draft played out, we got our #1 OT. If we stayed at 12, we probably would have had to choose between the third or fourth OT, but would have kept a 2nd round pick. But neither of us know what our Board looked like. JMO, but I don't think it's fair to MO to label PJ a reach.

 

[BulldogCard]

The way the Draft played out, we got our #1 OT. If we stayed at 12, we probably would have had to choose between the third or fourth OT, but would have kept a 2nd round pick. But neither of us know what our Board looked like. JMO, but I don't think it's fair to MO to label PJ a reach.

I would have taken B. Robinson after Anderson then Skoronski at 12. That would make that center in round 2 more accessible.

 

[Garthshort]

I would have taken B. Robinson after Anderson then Skoronski at 12. That would make that center in round 2 more accessible.

If MO had done that, and it might turn out to be a good move, but not only the national media, but many on this Board would have trashed him for:
1. Taking a RB so high.
2. Drafting a guy with short arms that many say is better suited for OG.
Time will tell.

 

[juza76]

when we drafted Rondale I suggested moving him to RB and got poo poo'd...
but the kid is absolutely a Barry Sanders clone.... same height and weight, same 40 time, same body type, same personality, neither worked out at the combine, but private workout numbers are nearly identical all across the board.
If we ran that wide zone run scheme that BA ran with DJ, Rondale could be a very dangerous weapon out of the backfield. he would probably be a 1500 yard back...cant imagine what he might do if he played a full season

Moving Rondale to rb it means having him available just for a couple of matches