Oh What a Night

Harry

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I’ve come away from games with a wide variety of feelings. After the Bears game; however, I find myself both confused and worried. Don’t get me wrong, I’m okay that they lost.

I’m confused because I thought I was watching a preseason game. The Cards seemed to be experimenting with odd calls at odd times. They inexplicably went for 2 again, which has become some sort of odds defying strategy. They continue to play nearly useless players. I warned at draft time that Pappoe was a fine athlete who had no concept of how the game is played. He can’t tackle. He rushes up to engage OLs rather than letting the play come to him. This results in his not filling a gap and allowing his opponent to race through that gap. CB Thomas couldn’t cover a statue. Somehow Wilkinson is starting again. Moore gets less from his prodigious talent than almost any receiver I’ve ever seen. He flashes greatness, but achieves mediocrity. Cameron Thomas has oddly regressed this season. WR Wilson gets virtually no separation, yet plays ahead of Dortch, who continues to make plays with the few chances he’s given. When trailing and short on time, it often seemed they called plays designed to burn the clock. The only way to resolve my confusion is to conclude I was right all along. I’ve been maintaining Monti was aiming for a terrible record. It now seems the Cards have abandoned all subtlety. The coaching staff appears to have joined the party.

Now comes the worried part. If Murray is going to QB this team he needs to do some soul searching. It’s true he has few weapons. However, he’s got to get himself under control. When the opposing QB, whose job is in jeopardy, shows more poise than you do, you’re not getting the job done. He should watch this game tape several times, comparing the poise he displays to what Fields does. Fields has limitations and may well be replaced. However, he’s learned to use the chaos of the rush, not fight it. I’m not saying Murray panics, he just doesn’t have the right mindset. He doesn’t visualize what’s going. He fights it rather than using it. He just doesn’t get it at this point.

I think he’s been back from injury long enough to administer some tough love. Either his ego can take it or he’s not the guy. I’m not saying scream at him or threaten him. I’m saying he needs to watch film on a better way of coping with pressure and start to improve his game. Can he accept he has things to learn and apply what he sees? We all know what happens if you ignore adjusting to issues and simply hope for improvement. He has to start maximizing his talent.

Warning of coming attractions? I’m soon going to post a series of articles dissecting how to rebuild the team. I started to put it in one post(too long) but I came to believe I’d rather get us involved in an in depth analysis of the project. It’s going to be a mammoth undertaking as I think this may be the weakest roster since they moved to AZ. I’d like to urge tolerance of divergent views. This is so complex, all options should be on the table. By taking it a piece at a time, everyone can get their say. If, after it wraps up, I’ve missed an area of concern please advance it. I know it’s tough to compartmentalize but I think we’ll do better if we try to stay with the area of focus. I know they interrelate, but otherwise we’ll be all over the place. Again let’s try to give everyone a fair hearing. Please stay away from personal attacks and present reasons opposing positions.
 

MadCardDisease

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Excellent post.

This should be a very interesting and extremely important offseason. The Cardinals have pretty much a blank slate to build this team in Monti’s image (minus being stuck with Kyler for another year). I’m excited to see the Cardinals finally start truly rebuilding after this season was a massive tear down of Keim’s total mess.
 

Cheesebeef

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Excellent post.

This should be a very interesting and extremely important offseason. The Cardinals have pretty much a blank slate to build this team in Monti’s image (minus being stuck with Kyler for another year). I’m excited to see the Cardinals finally start truly rebuilding after this season was a massive tear down of Keim’s total mess.
I continue to be flummoxed by people who think it was impossible for Monti to walk and chew gum at the same.

Expectations for this franchise are so horrifically low.
 

kerouac9

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I continue to be flummoxed by people who think it was impossible for Monti to walk and chew gum at the same.

Expectations for this franchise are so horrifically low.
It's pretty wild that we're walking into 2024 with almost no foundation to speak of. Monti turned the third position in the NFL draft into a pretty good right tackle and a bunch of part-time players.

Not really what you want.
 

TheCardFan

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They inexplicably went for 2 again, which has become some sort of odds defying strategy.

Please tell me this is all just a JG experiment this year. Stupid stuff man.

If those same calls happen next year - he is clearly not the guy.
 

slanidrac16

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Harry, Looking forward to it! Here’s my biggest fear.
Kyler has been playing his style football for 20 years against inferior opponents. Asking him to “ learn” a new style seems like a waste of time. His habits, physical stature and strengths doesn’t fit the NFL prototype offense. His physical abilities and style rarely succeed in the NFL. Unless of course you have a top 3 defense and top 3 running game. If you have that, many qbs can succeed.
How long do we stick with the Kyler experiment? How long do we wait to get an insurance policy in place.

At this point, and I’ll catch some heat for this, I would take Fields over Murray for the exact reasons you pointed out.
 

TheCardFan

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Fields has limitations and may well be replaced. However, he’s learned to use the chaos of the rush, not fight it. I’m not saying Murray panics, he just doesn’t have the right mindset. He doesn’t visualize what’s going. He fights it rather than using it. He just doesn’t get it at this point.

I never thought I would ever say this but Fields was clearly the better QB yesterday.

He looked poised and in control.
 

TheCardFan

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It's pretty wild that we're walking into 2024 with almost no foundation to speak of. Monti turned the third position in the NFL draft into a pretty good right tackle and a bunch of part-time players.

Not really what you want.

Eh.

I think you are being a bit harsh and you keep forgetting about the #1 pick this year.
 

slanidrac16

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The more I look at what's happening, the more I am determined that we are going to move away from Kyler and get whatever we can for him and draft a quarterback.

Do you want that? Not necessarily but look at the options.

We will possibly have a pick of several halfway decent quarterbacks in the draft and this quarterback will be this regime's guy.

Whether we get a first, second, or third for Kyler doesn't really matter as we will take a big salary tap hit but having a rookie quarterback to grow with we'll make much sense from a patient's standpoint than Murray who should be getting right into his prime.

So I think we get a QB with our first pick, offensive line or wide receiver with our second pick, and then possibly defense for the rest while plugging in whatever we can through free agency.

Next year is going to be a tough year as well and I just don't think K1 will be happy so get what we can when we can.

So the fine line is putting him in a position to succeed and be attractive but yet not win. That can be a difficult tightrope.
Get ready to get blasted for the thought of drafting a Qb with our first pick. I won’t be one of them.
 

jf-08

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Get ready to get blasted for the thought of drafting a Qb with our first pick. I won’t be one of them.
The rookie salary structure for a quarterback is the only reason that I can see them doing that.
 

jf-08

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Get ready to get blasted for the thought of drafting a Qb with our first pick. I won’t be one of them.
Oops I posted this in the wrong thread I'm going to repost it in the correct thread.
 

slanidrac16

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The rookie salary structure for a quarterback is the only reason that I can see them doing that.
Look at what teams needing a qb are going to have to give up to get one. It’s not unreal we would be one of those teams next year.
 

Cards Crazy

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Harry, Looking forward to it! Here’s my biggest fear.
Kyler has been playing his style football for 20 years against inferior opponents. Asking him to “ learn” a new style seems like a waste of time. His habits, physical stature and strengths doesn’t fit the NFL prototype offense. His physical abilities and style rarely succeed in the NFL. Unless of course you have a top 3 defense and top 3 running game. If you have that, many qbs can succeed.
How long do we stick with the Kyler experiment? How long do we wait to get an insurance policy in place.

At this point, and I’ll catch some heat for this, I would take Fields over Murray for the exact reasons you pointed out.
I said that the year he was drafted wandered out loud if he could adjust to another system and if course was Shouted down over this "Once in a Generation Talent" who was singlehandily transform the NFL so far Ive been correct (Really I wasnt though)
 

MadCardDisease

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It's pretty wild that we're walking into 2024 with almost no foundation to speak of. Monti turned the third position in the NFL draft into a pretty good right tackle and a bunch of part-time players.

Not really what you want.

I would say that the Cardinals running game is the foundation that they are starting with heading into the 2024 offseason.

The Offense Line is solid with a hole at LG that needs to be filled. The Cardinals have finally figured out how to use a TE and have a budding superstar in McBride. Conner is a beast running the ball. That would be the foundation that I build this team around next season.
 

DVontel

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The rookie salary structure for a quarterback is the only reason that I can see them doing that.
Except it’s such overrated ass talking point from talking heads & has convinced fans that’s the way to go when in reality it has only benefited teams that already have good overall talent & makes it more welcoming for that rookie/young QB & are able to add good depth players.
 

kerouac9

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I would say that the Cardinals running game is the foundation that they are starting with heading into the 2024 offseason.

The Offense Line is solid with a hole at LG that needs to be filled. The Cardinals have finally figured out how to use a TE and have a budding superstar in McBride. Conner is a beast running the ball. That would be the foundation that I build this team around next season.
A 29-year-old running back who has never started 14 games in his career! Sounds like a foundation for success!

So far, it's the foundation for a lower-tier NFL offense.
 

MadCardDisease

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A 29-year-old running back who has never started 14 games in his career! Sounds like a foundation for success!

So far, it's the foundation for a lower-tier NFL offense.
Yes the Cardinals obviously need to bring in another younger running back to groom for the future. However I believe Conner can provide at least one more season of solid production.
 

Fitz4Ever

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Like ot or not, the on field product has put all options on the table. If we get a trade offer for Kyler that gets us off his contract and we are in position to get Maye...then it has to be strongly considered.

Even if you think Murray is not the problem, having a 50m a year qb on a terrible team gets you nowhere.
 

TheCardFan

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I would say that the Cardinals running game is the foundation that they are starting with heading into the 2024 offseason.

The Offense Line is solid with a hole at LG that needs to be filled. The Cardinals have finally figured out how to use a TE and have a budding superstar in McBride. Conner is a beast running the ball. That would be the foundation that I build this team around next season.

Agreed. I think we should sign a very good LG in FA and the oline could actually be a strength in 2024.

The RB room is good but we need to add a rookie with high upside to the mix. Think starter type (we have two good change of pace backs now).

WR room is obviously very bad. Need 2-3 new ones, including a true #1 and #2.

I hope Dortch stays as PR and WR contributor but if I was him, I would be gone with any reasonable offer in FA.
 
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