Oh What a Night

Dan H

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
4,833
Reaction score
3,157
Location
Circle City, IN

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,190
Reaction score
51,787
Location
SoCal
But he didn't disprove the point that teams featuring highly drafted receivers won Super Bowls. Not at all.

A lot of player success in the NFL is matching the right traits to the right system.
Eh, again I don’t think where a particular position was drafted has any correlation to winning a super bowl. Seems a silly metric for measurement considering that there are 21 other starters that have an impact on winning a Super Bowl.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,297
Reaction score
60,848
Here’s my question for anyone thinking twice about drafting MJH at 3:

Can anyone remember any WR, with that level of hype, for multiple years, busting at the next level?

Not a gotcha question or anything. Just can’t seem to come up with one off top of mind. He seems like a no doubt home-run and this team is in DESPERATE need of home-run hitters, especially with another first rounder and a solid of cache of picks in the top 3 rounds to go get quantity on top of quality.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,007
Reaction score
14,441
Location
Plainfield, Il.
Eh, again I don’t think where a particular position was drafted has any correlation to winning a super bowl. Seems a silly metric for measurement considering that there are 21 other starters that have an impact on winning a Super Bowl.
Teams that are good have good player, good coaching and stay relatively healthy.
To not take the best wr prospect in years because wr position doesn’t necessarily get you to the Super Bowl is ludicrous, Especially considering we have NO WR’s makes it even dumber.

One position does have impact and that’s the Qb. If we are not taking a Qb, then take MHJ and move on.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,190
Reaction score
51,787
Location
SoCal
Teams that are good have good player, good coaching and stay relatively healthy.
To not take the best wr prospect in years because wr position doesn’t necessarily get you to the Super Bowl is ludicrous, Especially considering we have NO WR’s makes it even dumber.

One position does have impact and that’s the Qb. If we are not taking a Qb, then take MHJ and move on.
Agreed. QB or HOF defensive linemen seem to be super bowl makers (if such a thing exists).
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,560
Reaction score
7,300
Location
Home of the Thunder
That was a rough intro to the boards for me... I am pretty sure that bad first impression got me on ignore from quite a few posters. The old ESPN boards had just been shut down and the style of "discourse" over there was very different than here... I had a bit of adjusting and growing up to do.

Anyway, onto the tale of Kolb.

I thought he was basically a right handed poor man's Matt Leinart. A dude who throws 90% check downs, zero pocket awareness and got injured like every other game. He only started a handful of games in Philly and he'd already been injured like 5 times, including multiple concussions. He was like the 3rd or 4th awful QB that Andy Reid had pawned off on some unsuspecting team in only a few years.

Red flags were everywhere.

I didn't hate him, the person, I hated the trade and was incensed that we did something that I felt was so patently stupid and was obviously going to make us waste 2 or 3 years on a dude who was a dud from the jump.

I am not near as down on Kyler as I was on Kolb. I was heavily in the Kyler camp for most of his first 3 years, but the playoff game pretty much eradicated my confidence in him. Not so much that he had a terrible game, it was the way he carried himself during it.

My expectation that the team would likely move on after this year was mostly because the front office has been purging virtually everything from before their reign and already put themselves in a spot to absorb the massive cap hit. I figure Kyler was in a spot where he'd really need to wow them to stick around and he certainly hasn't wowed so far.

I think it is likely he will be back next year though, there isn't the obvious "franchise guy" or 2 in the draft that people were anticipating. Might as well play him next year when it's the year with the largest chunk of guaranteed money left on his deal... and there isn't really a decent alternative to go with anyway.





Probably do need to update my avatar though...

Very interesting, thank you! That makes sense about KK.

A lot of people agree with your last paragraph, and I have to admit K1 could play his way off the team next year. It's possible. (I'm still pretty confident in him though).

Anyway, hopefully one day the Cardinals will be champions and we can all celebrate! Thanks again!
 

Dayman

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
5,919
Reaction score
7,143
Location
Portland, Oregon
No question the Bears have a much better DL. I still think Fields showed poise. It also occurred to me I heard the coaches want Murray to focus staying in the pocket. Nonetheless when there’s an immediate rusher you move and use their momentum against them. Fields does that well. As I watched the tape Fields immediately moved away from the breakthrough. Seemed to me the DL’s agility was a bigger issue. Murray was often quickly surrounded and lacks the power to break away. He’s got to anticipate and move until he gets a bette OL.
Fields commented on this:

Asked the key to his production, Fields said, “Just extending plays. Last week they (the Browns) did a lot of drop-eight stuff, so we were kind of expecting some of that stuff. But they don’t have as fast of (pass rushers), so I knew I would be able to extend plays and stuff like that. I think that’s really it.

“I told the O-linemen, like, we don’t have to hold. If I break free, they are not as fast as Myles (Garrett) and the guys we played last week.”
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,560
Reaction score
7,300
Location
Home of the Thunder
Fields commented on this:

Asked the key to his production, Fields said, “Just extending plays. Last week they (the Browns) did a lot of drop-eight stuff, so we were kind of expecting some of that stuff. But they don’t have as fast of (pass rushers), so I knew I would be able to extend plays and stuff like that. I think that’s really it.

“I told the O-linemen, like, we don’t have to hold. If I break free, they are not as fast as Myles (Garrett) and the guys we played last week.”

That's stings.
 

Passepartout

July 4th Fireworks
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Posts
556
Reaction score
67
Location
Sevierville TN
Well the team will have to go back to the drawing board come 2024. Giving the new coach a free pass due to him being a rookie HC. But second year hopefully with one year under his belt, he can really figure out on things he needs to improve.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,333
Reaction score
16,526
Location
The Giant Toaster
Here’s my question for anyone thinking twice about drafting MJH at 3:

Can anyone remember any WR, with that level of hype, for multiple years, busting at the next level?

Not a gotcha question or anything. Just can’t seem to come up with one off top of mind. He seems like a no doubt home-run and this team is in DESPERATE need of home-run hitters, especially with another first rounder and a solid of cache of picks in the top 3 rounds to go get quantity on top of quality.

Charles Rodgers
Peter Warrick
Justin Blackmon
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,049
Reaction score
31,980
Location
Las Vegas
Here’s my question for anyone thinking twice about drafting MJH at 3:

Can anyone remember any WR, with that level of hype, for multiple years, busting at the next level?

Not a gotcha question or anything. Just can’t seem to come up with one off top of mind. He seems like a no doubt home-run and this team is in DESPERATE need of home-run hitters, especially with another first rounder and a solid of cache of picks in the top 3 rounds to go get quantity on top of quality.
Only ones I can really think of are Charles Rogers and maybe peter Warrick??? I do remember old @Russ Smith thinking Rogers was a full proof as you could get. :D

Oh, and maybe the guy from Michigan? Whose name escapes me won the Heisman?
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,720
Reaction score
26,400
Location
Gilbert, AZ
The hype part is weird because it’s not a metric and everything is overhyped these days.

Also, WRs aren’t chosen super-high that often. Few guys have the chance for multiple big years because they don’t play as much as underclassmen.

Tavon Austin comes to mind. Braylon Edwards.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,066
Reaction score
20,685
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Very interesting, thank you! That makes sense about KK.

A lot of people agree with your last paragraph, and I have to admit K1 could play his way off the team next year. It's possible. (I'm still pretty confident in him though).

Anyway, hopefully one day the Cardinals will be champions and we can all celebrate! Thanks again!
Not trying to bag on you; just curious. What makes you think he hasn't played his way off the team this season? Unless you think Kyler was a guaranteed starting in 2024 the minute we hired our FO and coach, then this was an audition for him. What has he done to earn the job rather than not lose it?
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,526
Reaction score
30,648
Location
Orange County, CA
Charles Rodgers
Peter Warrick
Justin Blackmon

Desmond Howard.

David Terrel?

The hype part is weird because it’s not a metric and everything is overhyped these days.

Also, WRs aren’t chosen super-high that often. Few guys have the chance for multiple big years because they don’t play as much as underclassmen.

Tavon Austin comes to mind. Braylon Edwards.

Sammy Watkins
Braylon Edwards
I'd say none of these guys really approach the grade MHJ is getting from scouts. Maybe Howard did, but that was like 3 decades ago, and the NFL was very different and Howard was also kind of a shrimp.

MHJ is more on the Megatron, Fitzgerald, Keyshawn grade, which is higher than all of the listed WRs.

In my view the only way MHJ really busts is either injuries or if he is some unknown head case.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
84,341
Reaction score
32,984
Only ones I can really think of are Charles Rogers and maybe peter Warrick??? I do remember old @Russ Smith thinking Rogers was a full proof as you could get. :D

Oh, and maybe the guy from Michigan? Whose name escapes me won the Heisman?


Yep he was one of many.

I do think WR seems to be the position that's hardest to judge, at least for me as to how they will fare in the NFL.

I actually don't see him as the future HOF WR that everyone else does, I think he COULD get to that level but I don't see it as a lock. I think he's a terrific player absolutely, but I have some concerns on him, which probably means HOF for him.

I absolutely want the Cards to get him, we need a game breaking WR, but I am concerned if you watch him, he has a lot of AJ Green in him who I was a big fan of when he was younger and not screwing up the Cards season, but I'm not sure he's that good yet. The most common complaint you see on him is he struggles with low throws and he's not that great after the catch, my thing is at times for a big guy he seems to struggle getting off the LOS. College teams largely just back off and give him space but the guys who get up on him seem to bother him, which is surprising for a big guy.
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,031
Reaction score
14,558
Location
Charlotte
MHJ is more on the Megatron, Fitzgerald, Keyshawn grade, which is higher than all of the listed WRs.

Do we know the actual grades on those guys?

I think Megatron was in a class by himself and MHJ is not in it.

MHJ seems more like Davante Adams to me, which is awesome of course.

Sammy Watkins was 7.10 and the 2nd highest grade in the 2014 class. Jamar Chase was 7.12.

Couldn't find anything earlier.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,526
Reaction score
30,648
Location
Orange County, CA
Do we know the actual grades on those guys?
No but just going off what scouts are saying. I've literally read multiple scouting reports stating that MHJ is in the Megatron class.
I think Megatron was in a class by himself and MHJ is not in it.
I've heard otherwise. MHJ also has better production and pedigree than Megatron had.
MHJ seems more like Davante Adams to me, which is awesome of course.
Davante was a 2nd rounder though, so he obviously isnt in the same class as MHJ is coming out. It's rare that a receiver has top three in a draft class grade, and is especially impressive when you consider the overall depth of the 2024 receiver class.
Sammy Watkins was 7.10 and the 2nd highest grade in the 2014 class. Jamar Chase was 7.12.
Watkins isn't MHJ class either. And neither is Chase.
Couldn't find anything earlier.

You must be registered for see images attach
Crazy how underwhelming Clowney and Barr have been as pros. Barr is on a practice squad.
 
Top