State Of The Team

kerouac9

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we had, what, 3 loses by 3 points or less (I believe) doesn’t seem like it would take much improvement on offense to fix that where the game isn’t in the kickers hands (so to speak). Add in defensive improvements and I could see 11+ wins. Ok, I’m an optimist….

Yes, but we had 2 WINS by 3 points or less, so what does that really show? Close games are a 50-50 proposition. One random play makes the difference. We want to eliminate randomness by dominating teams into the 4th quarter.

Athletic linebackers are the key on defense.

ive said it now in a couple of threads: Dansby/dwash patrolled the field.

Those 2 had a stretch that made our defense scary. I remember a few games they shut teams down: annihilated offenses.

Isaiah and zaven are going to be better than those 2.

You know who else we had on that defense? Calais Campbell, Dan Campbell, and Darnell Dockett up front, and prime Patrick Peterson behind.

Even then, last year's defense was 10th in DVOA and 6th in weighted DVOA. They average 17 ppg down the stretch last year. We didn't miss the playoffs because the defense sucked; we missed the defense because our offense was inconsistent.

Our offense was 19th in DVOA and 23rd in weighted DVOA in 2020. The drag was at the running back position. Now, we're trusting that running game to Chase Edmonds and his 42 carries last year and Conner, who was replacement level last year.

I think there's too much certainty that Green is cooked.

There was a time people said the same about Larry and he went on to play several more quality years.

Injury is more a concern that level of play for me.

Fitz has had a negative DVOA in seven of the past 8 years. He's had nice counting stats because he's had massive volume thrown his way.

That said, I think that it's completely reasonable to expect A.J. Green to be an average starting outside WR.

joeshmo used to say that it's harder for a team to get from 8-8 to 11-5 than it is to get get from 5-11 to 8-8. I think that's still true. The problem for this team is that Kliff Kingsbury definitely doesn't know how to do that, and I'm not sure Steve Keim does, either.
 

BritCard

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I was just watching All or Nothing again as Sky are rerunning the Cards season this week and there's nothing on.

I just watched the playoff game vs Green Bay. Man, what a game that was. Maybe of of the best Cards games of all time from a drama perspective. Although I didn't think that at the time, I nearly had a heart attack.

Before that the previous episode at the late season Packers game where we smashed them by about 30 points. In my opinion that was the best Cardinals team on both sides of the ball that I've seen.

The point of this is that it got me thinking. If you look at that team is it really vastly better than the one we have that many seem to have issue with?

The receivers were Fitz, Brown, Floyd and Nelson. I don't think that's better than what we have now. A draw at least.

TEs were Fells and Gresham. Yuk. We need work but this isn't great.

O line was Veldheer, Iupati, Sendlein, Larson, Massie. I like what we have now. Again a draw at least.

Rookie DJ and Ellington at RB. DJ was great then, they get the win here.

And of course Palmer vs Murray. While I think ultimately Murray has more talent Palmers experience and leadership gives him the edge here, but it's not a huge gap.

Interior D line was Campbell, Rucker, Mauro with Gunter and Stinson. Peak Campbell is better than current Watt but overall I prefer our current group.

Edge was Golden, Freeney and Kareem Martin. Okafor was out but these were our 4 OLBs. Again I prefer our current group.

Linebackers were Buc and Minter. Need I say more?

DBs were Bethel, Powers, Peterson, Jefferson and Johnson (Badger on IR). This group with peak P2 was very good so they win this one.

My point is, all teams have holes. We had guys like Martin, Minter, Bethel, Stinson etc taking significant snaps.

What made that a great team was great coaching, great game plans and great play calling. That's what will determine if this team is good or not. It has enough talent.
 

football karma

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Just on the Rams a couple of nits:

yeah the ranking can go down from #1 on defense, but statistically it can improve. I’m pretty sure they didn’t up zero yards and zero points. So “only direction . . . “ comment is meaningless.

golladay played portions of four games. That 20th ranking of the lions is also meaningless.



on defensive ranking/ performance: absolute performance also has high variance year to year. Of the top five teams in defense in a given year, at least three of them wont be top 5 the next. Nearly all of them will give up more yards in the next year, a healthy majority will also give up more points. I feel its a certainty that the 2021 Rams defense wont be as good as the 2020 version.



not withstanding Golliday: the Lions put good people around Stafford on offense. so while their defense was putrid, that also suggests ample opportunity for fourth quarters vs soft zone defenses that inflate passing stats. Stafford finished 15th in QBR. There is evidence that he is a middle of the pack Qb. An at 32 years old, will get worse each year going forward not better.

(and context: i am making the bearish case)
 
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Solar7

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(Sorry to hear about your friend)

The point is that Cardinals fans are still panning what has been mostly a good offseason, but are quick to pump up the Rams even with them losing a significant portion of their secondary. They have some replacements in the wings, but John Johnson is a fantastic FS and Troy Hill is a pretty good CB. You can't just continue to replace guys with roster depth players and expect the defense to remain the same.

Plus Brandon Staley was phenomenal last year. That kid is a really good young football coach, while Raheem Morris has largely been a failure everywhere he's been.
For whatever losses the Rams had there though, they've become enormously better at the most important position on the field, QB. And they have a very strong running game, plus enough elite or really good defenders to get by. If you'd rather be in our position than theirs (this year at least), I'm not sure why.

Yes, but we had 2 WINS by 3 points or less, so what does that really show? Close games are a 50-50 proposition. One random play makes the difference. We want to eliminate randomness by dominating teams into the 4th quarter.
Yep. I'd challenge anyone extolling how many close games we had to go back and look at the Steve Wilks year and see just how close we were to being .500 with a few points here or there.
 

kerouac9

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I was just watching All or Nothing again as Sky are rerunning the Cards season this week and there's nothing on.

I just watched the playoff game vs Green Bay. Man, what a game that was. Maybe of of the best Cards games of all time from a drama perspective. Although I didn't think that at the time, I nearly had a heart attack.

Before that the previous episode at the late season Packers game where we smashed them by about 30 points. In my opinion that was the best Cardinals team on both sides of the ball that I've seen.

The point of this is that it got me thinking. If you look at that team is it really vastly better than the one we have that many seem to have issue with?

The receivers were Fitz, Brown, Floyd and Nelson. I don't think that's better than what we have now. A draw at least.

TEs were Fells and Gresham. Yuk. We need work but this isn't great.

O line was Veldheer, Iupati, Sendlein, Larson, Massie. I like what we have now. Again a draw at least.

Rookie DJ and Ellington at RB. DJ was great then, they get the win here.

And of course Palmer vs Murray. While I think ultimately Murray has more talent Palmers experience and leadership gives him the edge here, but it's not a huge gap.

Interior D line was Campbell, Rucker, Mauro with Gunter and Stinson. Peak Campbell is better than current Watt but overall I prefer our current group.

Edge was Golden, Freeney and Kareem Martin. Okafor was out but these were our 4 OLBs. Again I prefer our current group.

Linebackers were Buc and Minter. Need I say more?

DBs were Bethel, Powers, Peterson, Jefferson and Johnson (Badger on IR). This group with peak P2 was very good so they win this one.

My point is, all teams have holes. We had guys like Martin, Minter, Bethel, Stinson etc taking significant snaps.

What made that a great team was great coaching, great game plans and great play calling. That's what will determine if this team is good or not. It has enough talent.

Lot of fake news on this post.

We had David Johnson and Chis Johnson at RB in 2015. I'd obviously rather have those guys.

We had Fitz, John Brown (65 rec./1003 yds/7 TDs) and Michael Floyd (52/849/6) as the receivers. We'd be lucky to have Green and Kirk achieve those numbers this year.

You prefer our current group of OLBSs of Chandler Jones, old Markus Golden and ???? over Dwight Freeney, young Markus Golden, and Alex Okafor (who is still playing in the NFL)? C'mon.
 

imaCafan

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Post draft/FA rankings (PFT I think) had us at 12. Not too bad, except they had the 49r's at 11, Rams and Hawks at 8 and 9.
 

DVontel

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Our divisional opponents(Rams/Niners) now are also much better than what they were then. Seahawks are about the same.
 

cheesebeef

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Could he be? Sure. But it's far from certain.

There's a bunch of players been written off before who weren't done. Randy Moss was "cooked" in Vegas until he went to the Pats for example.

Moss was also 3 years younger than broken down Green.
 

DVontel

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Lot of fake news on this post.

We had David Johnson and Chis Johnson at RB in 2015. I'd obviously rather have those guys.

We had Fitz, John Brown (65 rec./1003 yds/7 TDs) and Michael Floyd (52/849/6) as the receivers. We'd be lucky to have Green and Kirk achieve those numbers this year.

You prefer our current group of OLBSs of Chandler Jones, old Markus Golden and ???? over Dwight Freeney, young Markus Golden, and Alex Okafor (who is still playing in the NFL)? C'mon.
I definitely would & I’m not even that high on this year’s group. I don’t even see how it’s debatable.


What was always a weakness on that 2015 team was our lack of pass-rush. Freeney got sacks at the most opportune times, but obviously showed old age. Golden did a adequate job I guess, but he’s clearly a better player now. And Alex Okafor....lol, c’mon. That 8(9?) sack game against GB in the regular season is one of the biggest aberrations I ever seen.
 

cheesebeef

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Comparing this offense to the 2015 offense is really a joke.

QB:
2015 had an MVP level Carson Palmer at QB.

2021 has Kyler who's got all the potential in the world, but fell off a cliff the second half of last season. Whether that was because of injury or teams catching up to us remains to be seen.

WR:
2015 Had one of the best WR groups in the league. A healthy HOFer at the end of his prime, a healthy burner who could rip the roof off a Defense and a big possession WR, again, all whom were healthy, dependable and in their prime. Also had Nelson as a 4th WR who could occassionally take a team deep.

This offense has a HOF WR... and nothing else dependable.

The idea that it's a push here is laughable.

OL:

2015 - they consistently opened up holes no matter what running back was in there. And they consistently gave Palmer time to throw. They were solid across the line. No gaping holes like we still have at G or mediocre at best at T. Veldheer was very good that season. Massie was solid.

2021: Humphries is at Veldheer level, Hudson is better than the C in 2015, Pugh is fine and then there's a gaping hole at the other G and a mediocre RT.

Until 2021 shows they can open up massive holes the way 2015's did for guys like Chris Johnson on his last legs.

RB:

2015: We had great depth at RB with Chris Johnson, Ellington and a killer DJ who exploded at the end of the season.

2021: Do I even need to make an argument here?

TE:

2015 and 2021 both stink.

That was a GREAT offense with incredible balance. Last year's offense was Kyler carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders... and when one shoulder couldn't take it, the offense crumbled off it.

That said, the defense this year could be better. 2015's secondary squashes 2021's, but the LBers and pass rush that year were pathetic. Always thought our defensive ranking in 2015 was a mirage.
 

football karma

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2021: Humphries is at Veldheer level

not really a comment on the entire comparison, but a comment on how good DJ is.

Humphries is a top 4 tackle in the NFL. really a study in how a player can get better year after year

Veldheer was good, but didnt reach DJs level
 

Solar7

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not really a comment on the entire comparison, but a comment on how good DJ is.

Humphries is a top 4 tackle in the NFL. really a study in how a player can get better year after year

Veldheer was good, but didnt reach DJs level
It is staggering how much people on this board overrate that guy and our own players. Top 4? Holy cow.
 

PACardsFan

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7-8 wins

DC's have KK figured out. Look at the last games in 2020

VJ does not now how to get best out of the players.

Another frustrating season coming our way
The fact is that we played better defenses down the stretch. Defenses that could expose the interior of our OL. Murray was running for his life & our WR room had 1 receiver. No offense will look good with a shabby interior line & very limited offensive weapons. We have far more talent on both sides of the ball this year, but like most seasons, injuries will determine just how successful we are.
 

PACardsFan

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I’ll be honest, I think we have a better chance of beating Tennessee on the road than we do beating Chicago at home. Tennessee dramatically got worse this offseason.
True, but Tennessee has the far better coaching staff.
 
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