Reality Check - Roster Construction

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
89,467
Reaction score
63,074
this is my criticism

a plan that said: 2023 is a reset year, we will take our dead money hits and get rid of bad contracts so we can make the 2023 offseason the one where we load up

but thats not what is happening -- its been half measures so far.
I was about to say this isn’t hard for anyone to understand, but this isn’t a matter of understanding or not.

This is just another example of battered Cardinals fans being yes men to WHATEVER the Cardinals do, no matter what.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,770
Reaction score
32,905
Location
Orange County, CA
I was about to say this isn’t hard for anyone to understand, but this isn’t a matter of understanding or not.

This is just another example of battered Cardinals fans being yes men to WHATEVER the Cardinals do, no matter what.
My hope is that the Cardinals are waiting until after the draft to sign value guys that slip through the cracks now. Those guys are out there every year; that doesn't mean the Cardinals actually sign them however.

Not going to lie, it's a painful time to be a Cardinals fan. So much hope during the early part of 2021.
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,682
Reaction score
7,651
Location
Home of the Thunder
I think that @kerouac9 is 100% correct in stating that finding 4 starters in any draft is a tall task. It just rarely happens, even for the best teams.

I think the Cardinals should only plan for 2-3 starters from any given draft.

I agree with the "darksiders" that the Cardinals are missing the opportunity to add a few players NOW. An argument can be made that they have added ONE in Kyzir White this year.

We will know after the draft what the plan is. If the Cardinals trade down and get extra day two picks and future picks, they probably think that they can just fill all needs through the draft. This is a very dicey proposition. Only the absolute best front offices can pull this off and even then, they probably won't really compete for championships.

I've been thinking about the bolded lately. Specifically, what is a realistic yield from this draft? Assuming no trade downs, how many of the following should Monti and team get in terms of:

1. Above average starters
2. Average starters
3. Solid backups/ST players

Here's where we're picking:
  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 34
  • Round 3, Pick 66
  • Round 3, Pick 96
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 5, Pick 168
  • Round 6, Pick 180
  • Round 6, Pick 213

I'll say
1. Above average starters - 1 (from #3)
2. average starters - 1 (from either 34, 66, or 96)
3. Solid backups/ST players - 3

Would love to hear what the group thinks!
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,174
Reaction score
5,949
Location
Mesa, AZ
I've been thinking about the bolded lately. Specifically, what is a realistic yield from this draft? Assuming no trade downs, how many of the following should Monti and team get in terms of:

1. Above average starters
2. Average starters
3. Solid backups/ST players

Here's where we're picking:
  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 34
  • Round 3, Pick 66
  • Round 3, Pick 96
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 5, Pick 168
  • Round 6, Pick 180
  • Round 6, Pick 213

I'll say
1. Above average starters - 1 (from #3)
2. average starters - 1 (from either 34, 66, or 96)
3. Solid backups/ST players - 3

Would love to hear what the group thinks!
I think the problem is you cannot determine a realistic yield (your words) when it comes to the draft.

The Cardinals could pick Anderson and still not walk away with a long term starter. Too many variables.

Instead of realistic yield, I would look for hopeful yield. In that case, your hopes of 5 productive players is possible
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
12,877
Reaction score
16,637
Location
Arcadia
I've been thinking about the bolded lately. Specifically, what is a realistic yield from this draft? Assuming no trade downs, how many of the following should Monti and team get in terms of:

1. Above average starters
2. Average starters
3. Solid backups/ST players

Here's where we're picking:
  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 34
  • Round 3, Pick 66
  • Round 3, Pick 96
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 5, Pick 168
  • Round 6, Pick 180
  • Round 6, Pick 213

I'll say
1. Above average starters - 1 (from #3)
2. average starters - 1 (from either 34, 66, or 96)
3. Solid backups/ST players - 3

Would love to hear what the group thinks!
I think Anderson and Schmidt will be above average starters. But once you get that deep (66th pick) I think it's anybody's guess - one might find a more than serviceable RB tho

Predicting anything past that is like a March Madness bracket imo, there's no way in hell to know who will still be around
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,613
Reaction score
21,722
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
I don't agree with that even a little. You're just making stuff up now to justify standing by a position that makes no sense. You (and all the others in your little group) are entrenched in this idea that cutting Conner and Ertz makes sense (it doesn't, not even a little), that the June 1st designations and Hump restructure were stupid (without them we would have $2m useable cap space) and that we should be signing guys "for the future" that would be a waste of money next year.

League history is filled with teams that spent big in FA and turned a team around. It makes very little difference if you had 4 guys this year and 4 next year vs 8 at once. We would likely have the same numbers of FA's as most seasons, they will just be high quality ones. And in fact you can have 9 or 10 instead of 8 with the money you saved in 2023.
You're going back to Ertz and Conner lol You think one ginormous FA Madden spending spree of a hundred mill is going to make us competitive. League history is filled with teams that spent big in FA and failed--and show me one team that dropped a hundred mill and became good. I'll wait. And, yes, signing a year ahead matters because--duh--cohesion and gelling matters. Asking a dozen new high-priced players to integrate at once versus 6 one year and 6 another is bad policy. I mean, you are literally advancing a Madden strategy. Doesn't even come close to working like that in good FOs and on good teams.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,613
Reaction score
21,722
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
welp that settles it-- drafts are not important. Its all about signing free agents and thats it.

Hell-- why even draft? According to some here theres barely any chance they will even pan out.

Maybe thats why Steve Keim lasted as long as he did--- Michael Bidwill ALSO thinks drafts are a waste of time

I dont know why ball clubs like the Steelers and Patriots put so much emphasis on these drafts. Such a waste of time

#ElevenSuperBowlsBetweenThem
Now you're just playing dumb. It doesn't suit you. Drafts are important. FA is important. Trades are important. Every route of making your roster better is important.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,974
Reaction score
35,901
Location
Colorado
I've been thinking about the bolded lately. Specifically, what is a realistic yield from this draft? Assuming no trade downs, how many of the following should Monti and team get in terms of:

1. Above average starters
2. Average starters
3. Solid backups/ST players

Here's where we're picking:
  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 34
  • Round 3, Pick 66
  • Round 3, Pick 96
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 5, Pick 168
  • Round 6, Pick 180
  • Round 6, Pick 213

I'll say
1. Above average starters - 1 (from #3)
2. average starters - 1 (from either 34, 66, or 96)
3. Solid backups/ST players - 3

Would love to hear what the group thinks!
I think that expecting 5 out of 8 players to contribute in 2023 and stick after that is very ambitious.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,917
Reaction score
13,698
Location
Modesto, California
I've been thinking about the bolded lately. Specifically, what is a realistic yield from this draft? Assuming no trade downs, how many of the following should Monti and team get in terms of:

1. Above average starters
2. Average starters
3. Solid backups/ST players

Here's where we're picking:
  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 34
  • Round 3, Pick 66
  • Round 3, Pick 96
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 5, Pick 168
  • Round 6, Pick 180
  • Round 6, Pick 213

I'll say
1. Above average starters - 1 (from #3)
2. average starters - 1 (from either 34, 66, or 96)
3. Solid backups/ST players - 3

Would love to hear what the group thinks!
Imo we should be able to nab starters as far as 96 in this draft...assuming 96 is a runningback
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,682
Reaction score
7,651
Location
Home of the Thunder
I think that expecting 5 out of 8 players to contribute in 2023 and stick after that is very ambitious.

No I agree. I meant "eventually developing into" a starter or back up, and not necessarily contributing in that capacity in 2023. But I guess would hope/expect that 5 out of 8 would stay on the roster through their rookie contact.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,917
Reaction score
13,698
Location
Modesto, California
No I agree. I meant "eventually developing into" a starter or back up, and not necessarily contributing in that capacity in 2023. But I guess would hope/expect that 5 out of 8 would stay on the roster through their rookie contact.
Gets sketchy when your talking Dline... if you got 4 DT's all rotating and bouncing around 45-55% of the snaps you can argue they are all starters...or they are all rotational guys...IMO if the talent and production is similar the terms are interchangeable.
 

lobo

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
3,310
Reaction score
229
Location
Inverness, Il
I've been thinking about the bolded lately. Specifically, what is a realistic yield from this draft? Assuming no trade downs, how many of the following should Monti and team get in terms of:

1. Above average starters
2. Average starters
3. Solid backups/ST players

Here's where we're picking:
  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 34
  • Round 3, Pick 66
  • Round 3, Pick 96
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 5, Pick 168
  • Round 6, Pick 180
  • Round 6, Pick 213

I'll say
1. Above average starters - 1 (from #3)A DRAFTYIELD
2. average starters - 1 (from either 34, 66, or 96)
3. Solid backups/ST players - 3

Would love to hear what the group thinks!
IF a draft can yield 25% legit starters or on the cusp of starting, the team did well
 
  • Like
Reactions: PJ1

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,974
Reaction score
35,901
Location
Colorado
I honestly like Benton more than Smith.

More pass-rushing upside there.
I like a stout guy next to a smaller guy like Anderson. I get that Mazi hasn't been able to get his athletic ability to flash on the field in terms of rushing the passer.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,974
Reaction score
35,901
Location
Colorado
@DVontel what do you think about Keion White as a 3T? 6'5 285 is light but might be able to beef up a little. Probably need a legit NT next to him but if you put him between Thomas and a NT it might keep him from being a run liability.
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
12,877
Reaction score
16,637
Location
Arcadia
Correct me if I'm wrong but Gannon's defense in Philadelphia hinged on not having to blitz constantly because the front four(?) was consistently able to pressure the QB - this leads me to believe Gannon would be all about some Will Anderson - even more than we are
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Posts
10,247
Reaction score
6,951
Location
Chandler
Do it hard, Cub. Maybe it’ll actually knock some sense into you for once.:mrgreen:

It's like we're running a marathon & after the first 100 yards we're in last place & it's oh noes we suck & are going to lose. It's been 9 days since the start of the new league year & the sky is falling or not falling the way some want it to. That's the way I'm seeing things on this board.
It's way too early for the bitching & moaning. There will be plenty of time for that later on during training camp & the regular season & you know there will be lots of it.
 
Last edited:

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,401
Reaction score
7,650
Location
North of the 49th.
It's like we're running a marathon & after the first 100 yards we're in last place & it's oh noes we suck & are going to lose. It's been 9 days since the start of the new league year & the sky is falling or not falling the way some want it to. That's the way I'm seeing things on this board.
It's way too earlier for the bitching & moaning. There will be plenty of time for that later on during training camp & the regular season & you know there will be lots of it.

It's in their DNA. Don't waste keystrokes. ;)
 

Outerlimits

Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Posts
394
Reaction score
860
Location
Richmond Virginia
I think we all expected a tough year, but one hopefully showing improvement towards a much better 2024.

Yes, it's early, but I'm confused by the approach. I wasn't expecting the plan to include likely watching David Blough get pummeled for weeks until Kyler returns to a dysfunctional team largely absent of any talent. I'm not sure how having a horrific season with very few positives is building a strong foundation towards the team being at least very competitive the following season.

Granted, the draft hasn't occurred yet, so I'm trying hard to not be entirely doom and gloom. Hopefully the FO does a great job with it and some optimism occurs after that.

I do know if the draft ends up being a debacle, this place will go nuclear. Lol.
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
12,877
Reaction score
16,637
Location
Arcadia
Yes, it's early, but I'm confused by the approach. I wasn't expecting the plan to include Colt McCoy being murdered in the first game and then likely watching David Blough get pummeled for weeks until Kyler returns to a dysfunctional team largely absent of any talent.
FTFY
 
Top