My free agency plan

Gandhi

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Cut Mike Iupati, Jared Veldheer, Adrian Peterson

I think there is some really interesting offensive line draft prospects in the draft, and even if the Cardinals are not able to select them, or if the players are not ready to contribute as rookies, I think it is possible to replace Veldheer and Iupati at a much lower salary. The same goes for Adrian Peterson.

Re-sign Jaron Brown, Alex Boone, Earl Watford, Josh Bynes, Justin Bethel, Tramon Williams

I think Jaron Brown is kind of important since they seem to have a weak wide receiver-group going into the draft. I mean, besides Larry Fitzgerald I don’t really see any big contributors. I think they will let John Brown test the market and I don’t think J.J. Nelson will ever develop into more than an average deep threat. On top of that, I keep forgetting they have Chad Williams on the roster which I think says something. Jaron Brown is no world class player, but I think he is dependable.

I thought Alex Boone played well after they brought him in and more or less solidified the right side of the offensive line. Now, since I would cut Veldheer and maybe even insert a rookie in his place, I think it would be nice to have a veteran and good player next to that tackle. Earl Watford is, to me, a good depth player.

I also think Josh Bynes is a nice depth player, and that he played well in the latter part of last season. He probably won’t break the bank.

I believe Justin Bethel is one of the very best special team players in the NFL, and I believe that part of the game is often being highly undervalued, both by fans and by the teams.

Finally someone solidified the cornerback-spot opposite Patrick Peterson, and though Tramon Williams is getting up there in age, I think his play last season more than confirmed that he’s not done yet.

Restructure Tyrann Mathieu, Deone Buccanon

I know some fans would cut Mathieu for salary cap purposes, and I don’t think that is out of the question. I would, however, try hard to restructure his contract first. It’s easy to say now that he should never have gotten that big contract extension, but that sort of hindsight is obviously not constructive now. I just think Mathieu has earned the right to show that he can bounce back once more, and I think the Cardinals are a much more fun team with Mathieu on the field. I want him back.

With Buccanon it might be more about giving him a new contract than restructure his current, but since it is technically the same thing I thought I would leave him in this category. I would personally like to see what he can do back at safety. I know it’s been a long time since he has played the position, and maybe it won’t work out at all, but I just think it was clear that more or less the entire defense missed the hard-hitting presence and basically the swagger D.J. Swearinger played with. I think Buccanon has some of that and in some ways can be compared to Swearinger. Also, Steve Wilks has said multiple times that he wants his team to play very physical.

Sign in free agency


This is obviously based on these guys actually reaching free agency which is no sure thing.

Offensive guard Andrew Norwell – Carolina Panthers

He is by far the biggest fish of the offensive lineman in free agency. The Panthers will probably let him test the market since they already have three offensive linemen with major contracts, and a fourth might be too much for them. New Cardinals offensive line coach Ray Brown has a history of huge success with Norwell, and in this scenario the Cardinals will let go of Iupati, creating an obvious place for Norwell.

Wide receiver Albert Wilson – Kansas City Chiefs

I think he has been the Chiefs’ version of Jaron Brown for years. He has never been close to being their primary wide receiver, but he seems to always get his catches and contribute big to their offense. I like him a lot.

Wide receiver Jeremy Maclin – Baltimore Ravens

The Ravens obviously haven’t released Maclin yet, but most reporters seem to think it will happen since he has underperformed while in Baltimore and not at all lived up to his contract. I have always liked Maclin, and I would bet on him having a bounce back year. Since it has been some time since he has been really good, I doubt that he would command a huge contract.

Quarterback Sam Bradford – Minnesota Vikings

I have been on record stating that I would like the Cardinals to pursue Kirk Cousins. That has not changed. I have, however, also stated several times that I would like the Cardinals to trade up in the draft to select one of the quarterbacks. If the latter scenario happens, I would consider Sam Bradford to be a good option in free agency. In his very little amount of playing time with the Vikings last season, I thought he was very good, and he has obviously shown that on several other occasions as well. Now, he will probably get injured sometimes during the season which would create a natural opening for a rookie to step in. If they can get a good half season out of Bradford, I would be glad. If they can get a good entire season out of Bradford, I would be glad. Next offseason they could then either cut him, trade him or keep him as a backup if they want.

Quarterback Teddy Bridgewater – Minnesota Vikings

I understand that they probably won’t get two quarterbacks on incentive-laden contracts in free agency, but I sure would like it to happen. I have written in other threads how I think Bridgewater could be a fascinating signing. Whichever team he signs with, his contract will most likely reflect that he might never play another down. However, he could also show some of the promise that he did earlier in his career, and thus making the gamble to sign him plenty worthwhile. If they did sign another quarterback as well, and even drafted someone too, I really don’t see the downside to signing Bridgewater to a small prove it deal and let him compete in training camp.

Edge rusher Alex Okafor – New Orleans Saints


Yes, I would try to bring Okafor back. I think he was really good with the Saints last season before he got injured, and I think he was better with the Cardinals than Kareem Martin.

Defensive tackle Beau Allen – Philadelphia Eagles

Allen was a very good player last season as a key member of the Eagles’ defensive line. He had his breakout season right before hitting free agency, which is why he will probably get payed handsomely. I am a huge believer in the importance of the offensive and defensive lines, and I really want the Cardinals to invest in those units. I also think that Steve Wilks and Al Holcomb must be affected by how the Panthers continually invested in their defensive line with high draft picks and big contract extension.

Linebacker Christian Jones – Chicago Bears

I think the Bears’ defense last season was underrated, and I think Christian Jones were a fairly big part of their success. He can play both outside- and inside linebacker, and he is a highly impressive athlete. I am not saying he is anywhere near Shaq Thompson as a talent, but I think it’s fair to compare them as player types, and thus making Jones an interesting option to Wilks and Holcomb.

Cornerback Patrick Robinson – Philadelphia Eagles

I added Robinson to this list mostly because of the issues at cornerback across from Patrick Peterson, and because it was reported just yesterday that the Cardinals had interest in Robinson. I would probably rather have Tramon Williams back, but Robinson is a good player.

Safety Terrence Brooks – New York Jets

I think Tyvon Branch will leave the Cardinals, and with the Tyrann Mathieu-situation up in the air I wanted to add a safety to my free agency wishlist. I thought Brooks played well with the Eagles two seasons ago, and I simply take it is a seal of quality that he was a solid backup on a Todd Bowles-defense last season. Also, he is a very good special team player which I have given my opinion of in a section above.
 
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GimmedaBall

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Appreciate the work and research with your plan.

Do you see the Cards going draft or FA to replace Iupati and Veld? There will plenty of suitors for Norwell if Carolina has to let him go.

Bethel hits FA after his 'bet on himself' and contract restructure. Do you see him wanting to return to the Cards now that BA is gone---wonder if the new coaching staff sees him as a failure in progress? I think he played through some injury issues kept quite by the Cards and paid the price---just not able to keep pace with the WRs when he was at CB. He might be a player who needs the play in front of him (as his success with ST showed). Wonder if he could move to a safety role as opposed to CB?

We need a superior player at each unit or level be it on D or on O. We have Jones along the D line, PP and hopefully a healthy HB in the backfield, but currently do not have that with our LBers. Looks like Dansby has returned to the Cards for his last time. DBuc has played well enough for a S brought into the LBer role. Any ILBer out there that really stands out who can be brought in and act in the Thomas Davis/Luke K role for our new coaches?

PS The 'Over the Cap' website has update their spreadsheet to make it simple to caluculate moves and players signings, etc. They got the FA on the far right and the calculator for current players embedded in the spreadsheet. Fun to pop in the numbers for the moves.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/arizona-cardinals/
 
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Gandhi

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Appreciate the work and research with your plan.

Do you see the Cards going draft or FA to replace Iupati and Veld? There will plenty of suitors for Norwell if Carolina has to let him go.

Bethel hits FA after his 'bet on himself' and contract restructure. Do you see him wanting to return to the Cards now that BA is gone---wonder if the new coaching staff sees him as a failure in progress? I think he played through some injury issues kept quite by the Cards and paid the price---just not able to keep pace with the WRs when he was at CB. He might be a player who needs the play in front of him (as his success with ST showed). Wonder if he could move to a safety role as opposed to CB?

We need a superior player at each unit or level be it on D or on O. We have Jones along the D line, PP and hopefully a healthy HB in the backfield, but currently do not have that with our LBers. Looks like Dansby has returned to the Cards for his last time. DBuc has played well enough for a S brought into the LBer role. Any ILBer out there that really stands out who can be brought in and act in the Thomas Davis/Luke K role for our new coaches?

PS The 'Over the Cap' website has update their spreadsheet to make it simple to caluculate moves and players signings, etc. They got the FA on the far right and the calculator for current players embedded in the spreadsheet. Fun to pop in the numbers for the moves.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/arizona-cardinals/

Well, you are certainly right that it is a risk to rely on signing Norwell. Half the league is going to try that. I just don’t think there are many interesting offensive line players that are supposed to hit free agency. I guess it wouldn’t be bad to get Senio Kelemete back, and maybe Justin Pugh or Weston Richburg from the Giants would be worth it. I just wouldn’t like to bank on it. Rumor has it that the Dolphins will release right tackle Ja’Wuan James. I think he has been above average with them for a couple of years so maybe he is an option.

Personally, I would look in the draft. I think there is some very good players that might be available. Depending on what they do with the quarterback, they almost have to consider Orlando Brown out of Oklahoma if he is there at #15. I think he is one of the three or five best players in the entire draft. Also, I really like Tyrell Crosby out of Oregon. I could see him being selected in the first round, but if not, I think he would be a steal in the second. At guard I think guys like Isaiah Wynn out of Georgia, Austin Corbett out of Nevada or Brandon Parker out of North Carolina A&T would be solid picks in the second round, and at center I think highly of Frank Ragnow out of Nebraska in the second round. Now, I have only watched game tape of these prospects so I have a lot of reading to do about all prospects, and thus my rankings will definitely change more than once before the draft, but those are some of the guys I like for the Cardinals right now. There are several others, by the way. What do you think? How would you put the offensive line together?

About Bethel I think it could happen that he returns. I mean, if he doesn’t get great offers I would personally lean towards returning to the team, city and environment that I know, and probably be one of the best special team players in the league. That’s a huge achievement, I think, and something that should be very attractive.

You are probably right that they need playmakers in nearly every unit. They have some of the best players in the league at certain positions, but it’s just not enough in my eyes. That is actually why I would like them to heavily pursue a good enough quarterback. I don’t think they are strong enough all-around to simply insert Case Keenum, Nick Foles or another quarterback at that level and still win.

Do you have a plan, GDB? I would really like to hear your input.
 
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oaken1

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they almost have to consider Orlando Brown out of Oklahoma if he is there at #15. I think he is one of the three or five best players in the entire draft.


Whoa there brother put on the brakes!!.... Orlando Brown is the first bust on the board for the 2018 NFL Draft. Talent?? Yep, natural talent.

But the kid has never spent a moment of his life working to develop that talent... and apparently never spent a moment preparing for the combine either.

The kid does not want it. The kid does not want to work for it. The kid will fail in the NFL.

I am 50... 360lbs, with a broken back and a knee that needs replaced... and right now, off my couch I could match most of what Orlando Brown did at the combine.

here they are:

14 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press
• 5.85-second 40-yard dash
• 19½-inch vertical jump
• 6-foot-10 broad jump

They are saying..."worst combine performance of all time"

"wait a minute, come on...a guy can have a bad combine".... thats true... but not when statements like "the guy has never set foot in the gym in his life" are being made about him.

This dude will get eaten alive in the NFL... get his QB destroyed... and nobody is going to want to invest the YEARS of training it will take to make him an NFL lineman.... and apparently past history shows he doesnt want to put in the work to be the best anyway.

Unless Brown comes on and puts up an absolutely stellar pro day... this is not the workout of an NFL first round draft pick.... because he has talent,.. think...late third early fourth
 

Chopper0080

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Well, you are certainly right that it is a risk to rely on signing Norwell. Half the league is going to try that. I just don’t think there are many interesting offensive line players that are supposed to hit free agency. I guess it wouldn’t be bad to get Senio Kelemete back, and maybe Justin Pugh or Weston Richburg from the Giants would be worth it. I just wouldn’t like to bank on it. Rumor has it that the Dolphins will release right tackle Ja’Wuan James. I think he has been above average with them for a couple of years so maybe he is an option.

Personally, I would look in the draft. I think there is some very good players that might be available. Depending on what they do with the quarterback, they almost have to consider Orlando Brown out of Oklahoma if he is there at #15. I think he is one of the three or five best players in the entire draft. Also, I really like Tyrell Crosby out of Oregon. I could see him being selected in the first round, but if not, I think he would be a steal in the second. At guard I think guys like Isaiah Wynn out of Georgia, Austin Corbett out of Nevada or Brandon Parker out of North Carolina A&T would be solid picks in the second round, and at center I think highly of Frank Ragnow out of Nebraska in the second round. Now, I have only watched game tape of these prospects so I have a lot of reading to do about all prospects, and thus my rankings will definitely change more than once before the draft, but those are some of the guys I like for the Cardinals right now. There are several others, by the way. What do you think? How would you put the offensive line together?

About Bethel I think it could happen that he returns. I mean, if he doesn’t get great offers I would personally lean towards returning to the team, city and environment that I know, and probably be one of the best special team players in the league. That’s a huge achievement, I think, and something that should be very attractive.

You are probably right that they need playmakers in nearly every unit. They have some of the best players in the league at certain positions, but it’s just not enough in my eyes. That is actually why I would like them to heavily pursue a good enough quarterback. I don’t think they are strong enough all-around to simply insert Case Keenum, Nick Foles or another quarterback at that level and still win.

Do you have a plan, GDB? I would really like to hear your input.
I think you are way too high on Orlando Brown. He was super inconsistent at Oklahoma, and has always been a plodder. I think he sticks in the league, but he is going to have even more issues than Ereck Flowers has in NY. Big, slow footed OT who can't keep up with speed off the edge. You are drafting RT only in round 1 which is not ideal.
 

GimmedaBall

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Well, you are certainly right that it is a risk to rely on signing Norwell. Half the league is going to try that. I just don’t think there are many interesting offensive line players that are supposed to hit free agency. I guess it wouldn’t be bad to get Senio Kelemete back, and maybe Justin Pugh or Weston Richburg from the Giants would be worth it. I just wouldn’t like to bank on it. Rumor has it that the Dolphins will release right tackle Ja’Wuan James. I think he has been above average with them for a couple of years so maybe he is an option.

Personally, I would look in the draft. I think there is some very good players that might be available. Depending on what they do with the quarterback, they almost have to consider Orlando Brown out of Oklahoma if he is there at #15. I think he is one of the three or five best players in the entire draft. Also, I really like Tyrell Crosby out of Oregon. I could see him being selected in the first round, but if not, I think he would be a steal in the second. At guard I think guys like Isaiah Wynn out of Georgia, Austin Corbett out of Nevada or Brandon Parker out of North Carolina A&T would be solid picks in the second round, and at center I think highly of Frank Ragnow out of Nebraska in the second round. Now, I have only watched game tape of these prospects so I have a lot of reading to do about all prospects, and thus my rankings will definitely change more than once before the draft, but those are some of the guys I like for the Cardinals right now. There are several others, by the way. What do you think? How would you put the offensive line together?

About Bethel I think it could happen that he returns. I mean, if he doesn’t get great offers I would personally lean towards returning to the team, city and environment that I know, and probably be one of the best special team players in the league. That’s a huge achievement, I think, and something that should be very attractive.

You are probably right that they need playmakers in nearly every unit. They have some of the best players in the league at certain positions, but it’s just not enough in my eyes. That is actually why I would like them to heavily pursue a good enough quarterback. I don’t think they are strong enough all-around to simply insert Case Keenum, Nick Foles or another quarterback at that level and still win.

Do you have a plan, GDB? I would really like to hear your input.


For the O, I usually look first to the QB and the playbook to see which pieces to bring in via FA and the draft. In this very unusual situation without a QB on the roster, I have no idea where SK and SW are going to go with the QB. Until they get someone, I'd pass on the shopping for OL and even WR.

With BA's offense, we had a good idea of what was going to be demanded of the OL---they were going to have to defend a QB launch point and pocket for CP and DS and also have the heft/strength for run blocking and opening holes for DJ and AE. Different guy needed if Cards go with a more mobile QB who is going to have planned runs, roll-outs, etc. Also, need a bigger WR who can fight in the middle of the field and come back for passes off a scramble compared to a speed demon streaking for one of BA's 6 deep passes per game (Think Doug Baldwin and not Smoke or JJ).

Looks like Oaken1 has beaten me to the punch in regards to Brown---he really cost himself with his awful Combine numbers. He should have hit the gym instead of Dunkin' Donuts. If he gets drafted high, he had better be ready for some boot camp training and the Atkins diet.

For the D, SW fhas been more specific. He wants 'physicality' first and foremost. I see some long talks with PP on how he should play the position---a little more Josh Norman style compared to the Revis-DSanders approach. We need a beast at ILB similar to Thomas Davis and Luke K---Reddick was picked at #1 and then played out of position. Tough to make that big of switch but he has the athletic ability to improve. Like to see someone like Zach Brown brought in for the LBer crew. That, or get in the time machine and go back a few years for Dansby/Washinton combo.

I want to see HB in Cardinal Red. It was painful last season to see him trying to perform but not having the burst when he first came into league. Looks like Baker was drafted as a HB clone and replacement. I'd like to see HB re-do his deal and fight his way to health as a Cardinal. Some hopeful signs toward the end of last year when he was jumping routes and getting an INT or two. Even as he was working through his recovery---he was on the field more than any D player in the league. We need that kind of effort.

I do not spend a large amount of time evaluating the FA market or the college ranks to any degree---my plan is to read everyone else's plan and avoid the homework. That's based on years of being 100% wrong on how the first round will play out---let alone a full draft or FA recruitment. PP was my last correct 1st round pick for the Cards. LOL.
 

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Cut Mike Iupati, Jared Veldheer, Adrian Peterson

I think there is some really interesting offensive line draft prospects in the draft, and even if the Cardinals are not able to select them, or if the players are not ready to contribute as rookies, I think it is possible to replace Veldheer and Iupati at a much lower salary. The same goes for Adrian Peterson.

Re-sign Jaron Brown, Alex Boone, Earl Watford, Josh Bynes, Justin Bethel, Tramon Williams

I think Jaron Brown is kind of important since they seem to have a weak wide receiver-group going into the draft. I mean, besides Larry Fitzgerald I don’t really see any big contributors. I think they will let John Brown test the market and I don’t think J.J. Nelson will ever develop into more than an average deep threat. On top of that, I keep forgetting they have Chad Williams on the roster which I think says something. Jaron Brown is no world class player, but I think he is dependable.

I thought Alex Boone played well after they brought him in and more or less solidified the right side of the offensive line. Now, since I would cut Veldheer and maybe even insert a rookie in his place, I think it would be nice to have a veteran and good player next to that tackle. Earl Watford is, to me, a good depth player.

I also think Josh Bynes is a nice depth player, and that he played well in the latter part of last season. He probably won’t break the bank.

I believe Justin Bethel is one of the very best special team players in the NFL, and I believe that part of the game is often being highly undervalued, both by fans and by the teams.

Finally someone solidified the cornerback-spot opposite Patrick Peterson, and though Tramon Williams is getting up there in age, I think his play last season more than confirmed that he’s not done yet.

Restructure Tyrann Mathieu, Deone Buccanon

I know some fans would cut Mathieu for salary cap purposes, and I don’t think that is out of the question. I would, however, try hard to restructure his contract first. It’s easy to say now that he should never have gotten that big contract extension, but that sort of hindsight is obviously not constructive now. I just think Mathieu has earned the right to show that he can bounce back once more, and I think the Cardinals are a much more fun team with Mathieu on the field. I want him back.

With Buccanon it might be more about giving him a new contract than restructure his current, but since it is technically the same thing I thought I would leave him in this category. I would personally like to see what he can do back at safety. I know it’s been a long time since he has played the position, and maybe it won’t work out at all, but I just think it was clear that more or less the entire defense missed the hard-hitting presence and basically the swagger D.J. Swearinger played with. I think Buccanon has some of that and in some ways can be compared to Swearinger. Also, Steve Wilks has said multiple times that he wants his team to play very physical.

Sign in free agency


This is obviously based on these guys actually reaching free agency which is no sure thing.

Offensive guard Andrew Norwell – Carolina Panthers

He is by far the biggest fish of the offensive lineman in free agency. The Panthers will probably let him test the market since they already have three offensive linemen with major contracts, and a fourth might be too much for them. New Cardinals offensive line coach Ray Brown has a history of huge success with Norwell, and in this scenario the Cardinals will let go of Iupati, creating an obvious place for Norwell.

Wide receiver Albert Wilson – Kansas City Chiefs

I think he has been the Chiefs’ version of Jaron Brown for years. He has never been close to being their primary wide receiver, but he seems to always get his catches and contribute big to their offense. I like him a lot.

Wide receiver Jeremy Maclin – Baltimore Ravens

The Ravens obviously haven’t released Maclin yet, but most reporters seem to think it will happen since he has underperformed while in Baltimore and not at all lived up to his contract. I have always liked Maclin, and I would bet on him having a bounce back year. Since it has been some time since he has been really good, I doubt that he would command a huge contract.

Quarterback Sam Bradford – Minnesota Vikings

I have been on record stating that I would like the Cardinals to pursue Kirk Cousins. That has not changed. I have, however, also stated several times that I would like the Cardinals to trade up in the draft to select one of the quarterbacks. If the latter scenario happens, I would consider Sam Bradford to be a good option in free agency. In his very little amount of playing time with the Vikings last season, I thought he was very good, and he has obviously shown that on several other occasions as well. Now, he will probably get injured sometimes during the season which would create a natural opening for a rookie to step in. If they can get a good half season out of Bradford, I would be glad. If they can get a good entire season out of Bradford, I would be glad. Next offseason they could then either cut him, trade him or keep him as a backup if they want.

Quarterback Teddy Bridgewater – Minnesota Vikings

I understand that they probably won’t get two quarterbacks on incentive-laden contracts in free agency, but I sure would like it to happen. I have written in other threads how I think Bridgewater could be a fascinating signing. Whichever team he signs with, his contract will most likely reflect that he might never play another down. However, he could also show some of the promise that he did earlier in his career, and thus making the gamble to sign him plenty worthwhile. If they did sign another quarterback as well, and even drafted someone too, I really don’t see the downside to signing Bridgewater to a small prove it deal and let him compete in training camp.

Edge rusher Alex Okafor – New Orleans Saints


Yes, I would try to bring Okafor back. I think he was really good with the Saints last season before he got injured, and I think he was better with the Cardinals than Kareem Martin.

Defensive tackle Beau Allen – Philadelphia Eagles

Allen was a very good player last season as a key member of the Eagles’ defensive line. He had his breakout season right before hitting free agency, which is why he will probably get payed handsomely. I am a huge believer in the importance of the offensive and defensive lines, and I really want the Cardinals to invest in those units. I also think that Steve Wilks and Al Holcomb must be affected by how the Panthers continually invested in their defensive line with high draft picks and big contract extension.

Linebacker Christian Jones – Chicago Bears

I think the Bears’ defense last season was underrated, and I think Christian Jones were a fairly big part of their success. He can play both outside- and inside linebacker, and he is a highly impressive athlete. I am not saying he is anywhere near Shaq Thompson as a talent, but I think it’s fair to compare them as player types, and thus making Jones an interesting option to Wilks and Holcomb.

Cornerback Patrick Robinson – Philadelphia Eagles

I added Robinson to this list mostly because of the issues at cornerback across from Patrick Peterson, and because it was reported just yesterday that the Cardinals had interest in Robinson. I would probably rather have Tramon Williams back, but Robinson is a good player.

Safety Terrence Brooks – New York Jets

I think Tyvon Branch will leave the Cardinals, and with the Tyrann Mathieu-situation up in the air I wanted to add a safety to my free agency wishlist. I thought Brooks played well with the Eagles two seasons ago, and I simply take it is a seal of quality that he was a solid backup on a Todd Bowles-defense last season. Also, he is a very good special team player which I have given my opinion of in a section above.
On board with your plan but two changes.
1. Do not bring back Bethel unless he is okay being full time ST only.

2. Replace Bradford & Bridgewater with Taylor & Glennon. Too much of medical risk.

In your plan OT & QBOF will be addressed in draft I assume.
 
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Gandhi

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Whoa there brother put on the brakes!!.... Orlando Brown is the first bust on the board for the 2018 NFL Draft. Talent?? Yep, natural talent.

But the kid has never spent a moment of his life working to develop that talent... and apparently never spent a moment preparing for the combine either.

The kid does not want it. The kid does not want to work for it. The kid will fail in the NFL.

I am 50... 360lbs, with a broken back and a knee that needs replaced... and right now, off my couch I could match most of what Orlando Brown did at the combine.

here they are:

14 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press
• 5.85-second 40-yard dash
• 19½-inch vertical jump
• 6-foot-10 broad jump

They are saying..."worst combine performance of all time"

"wait a minute, come on...a guy can have a bad combine".... thats true... but not when statements like "the guy has never set foot in the gym in his life" are being made about him.

This dude will get eaten alive in the NFL... get his QB destroyed... and nobody is going to want to invest the YEARS of training it will take to make him an NFL lineman.... and apparently past history shows he doesnt want to put in the work to be the best anyway.

Unless Brown comes on and puts up an absolutely stellar pro day... this is not the workout of an NFL first round draft pick.... because he has talent,.. think...late third early fourth

Well, I do trust my evaluations, Oaken, but it does come with the aforementioned caveat that I haven’t read anything about these prospects. I basically don’t know anything about Orlando Brown’s life outside the field other than that his dad played in the NFL. So far, I am basing it only on game tape, and when I get to read up on them that will without a doubt change my rankings.

I have to say, though, that I don’t think it matters what he did at the combine. I knew those numbers before I wrote the post, and it didn’t change anything. I do agree with you that it could potentially impact where he is drafted but I think that’s for another debate.

I understand your point that it is kind of a red flag if he didn’t prepare for it, or if he simply doesn’t want to be great, but do you know those things? I mean, have you read it anywhere? Because I haven’t and would really like it if you could show me those articles. If not, it could be nothing more than that he’s just not a workout warrior.
 
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Gandhi

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I think you are way too high on Orlando Brown. He was super inconsistent at Oklahoma, and has always been a plodder. I think he sticks in the league, but he is going to have even more issues than Ereck Flowers has in NY. Big, slow footed OT who can't keep up with speed off the edge. You are drafting RT only in round 1 which is not ideal.

If he has more issues than Ereck Flowers, he will not stick. Flowers is not good enough to be an offensive tackle in the league.

Honestly, I have only watched four or five games of game tape on Brown, and only from this past season, so it could easily be that other games show something completely different. That wouldn’t be the first time.

On another note, I don’t think you can really distinguish between left- and right tackle anymore. Nowadays it is considered that important to get to the quarterback that most teams will have almost similar edge rushers on both sides. Some teams even put their best edge rusher on the left side. You could argue that the left tackle is more important because he will protect the quarterback’s blindside if the quarterback throws with his right hand, but then again, the counterargument could be that there is a saying that a quarterback is more affected by a pass rusher that he can see five yards in front of him than a pass rusher he can’t see two yards behind ham.

I don’t think it’s correct to downgrade the value of drafting a right tackle in the first round, and since I think Humphries showed promise in his brief playing time last season, that is what I would do if I where to take an offensive tackle in the first round.
 

GimmedaBall

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For whatever reason, OBrown put forth some historically bad numbers at the Combine for someone rated so high in mock drafts. Does he have any health issues that would have him showing up at his million dollar job interview and not beating out Oaken1 with his reps?

If it is not health-related, then is it motivation?

Simply being the biggest kid on the playground won't cut it in the NFL. (See Vita Vea's numbers for a man this size).
 
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Gandhi

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Simply being the biggest kid on the playground won't cut it in the NFL. (See Vita Vea's numbers for a man this size).

You are absolutely right, and there’s no doubt Orlando Brown did horrible at the Combine. I am just saying that I don’t think it matter that much. In some cases, the Combine can make for an okay tool, but in most cases I think you must be skeptical about it. Calais Campbell did not have a good Combine, for instance. Tom Brady posted literally the worst quarterback-numbers of any starting quarterback in the NFL. Other current stars who has done bad at the Combine include among others wide receiver Antonio Brown, linebacker Terrell Suggs, runningback Mark Ingram, and we all know how Anquan Boldin did. About ten years ago the offensive tackle out of Alabama, Andre Smith, had about as bad a Combine as Orlando Brown had. In the end, Smith even left Indianapolis before he was done with all he had to do. Yet he still ended up as the #6 pick overall, and after some average years he became a fairly good offensive tackle.

It goes the other way too. Quarterback Robert Griffin, wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey, wide receiver Tavon Austin, linebacker Aaron Curry, defensive end Barkevious Mingo and defensive end Vernon Gholston is just some examples on workout warrior who did great at the Combine. Some people might not remember some of those players, but that’s exactly my point since they have been major underachievers in the NFL. I can tell you that all of them were picked in the top ten of the first round.

If it is not health-related, then is it motivation?

I don’t think the reason for Orlando Brown’s Combine performance is necessarily either his health or his motivation. It could be, but I think it could also be that he just had a bad day, that he simply doesn’t run fast or jump high, that he had just received some news that resulted in his mind being somewhere else or some other reason that none of us know of.
 

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We can get a good idea what the NFL FO types and coaches think OBrowns his performance once the draft rolls around. Most mock drafts and player evals I looked at had him at the top of the first round.

You can also challenge the Combine drills. I posted a new thread on the drills---do they really measure what we hope they measure---but didn't get any takers. The Olympic sporting events may not be the best measure of a football player. The game tape throughout college may be a better tool for draft decisions.

You mentioned Vernon Gholston---the guy looked like the Hulk and put up impressive Combine numbers---got drafted and didn't produce a thing. Reverse for Brady---slow as molasses but is putting up the GOAT career at QB. Go figure.

That said, OBrown needs to dedicate himself to improvement if he wants a successful NFL career.
 

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Good stuff.

Word on the street Jaron Brown is going to get paid.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Good for him. He is a great #3. Reliable hands.

That is the word on the street, there are even teams that think he could be a #2........but I would not agree. I agree with you, he will be a good #3, and deserves it.
 
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Gandhi

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That is the word on the street, there are even teams that think he could be a #2........but I would not agree. I agree with you, he will be a good #3, and deserves it.

I think that would be great. Not that I would do it either, but I would be really happy for him. I have always liked him.
 

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