Froholdt

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who gets excited for centers?

When we signed the Rams center back in the day I was stoked just to get a pro at the position bc we had been so bad for so long. Then he was constantly hurt. That hurt.

 

[Zalixar]

Possibly, it could turn out to be huge. If Kyler looks like a franchise QB we might have huge trade back options or if he doesn’t look good we may be in position to get a possible franchise QB. Good options either way for dropping back 3 picks. Nothing is guaranteed.

If we get the number 1/2 pick, how good does he have to be to warrant not selecting a QB? He will have limited time to prove himself.

Even if he is pretty okay to good, we most likely won't be picking that high again or the QB class may not be great when/if we do.

He could just continue to play to pretty good in 2024 and beyond, but that's not good enough. He also gets injured every year/not consistent. While he didn't miss a lot of games, his injury has contributed to the collapse of two/three years.

2024 will be rough cap wise if we move on, but 2025 with a rookie salary QB would be nice. It's sorta about Murray and uncertainty, but also coupled with prime opportunity.

 

[Krangodnzr]

When we signed the Rams center back in the day I was stoked just to get a pro at the position bc we had been so bad for so long. Then he was constantly hurt. That hurt.

Gruttadauria. I was excited for that signing as well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I honestly think college centers aren't the best players on most OLs in College. The rules favor them, so you can hide a weaker player who happens to be able to snap. How many Centers come out each year that are actually good? And how many Guards become Centers that end up being good? I'd reckon the number is pretty close.

Was about to post the same thing.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Gruttadauria. I was excited for that signing as well.

Neck issues if i remember correctly? Didnt they also sign a center from Dallas?

 

[kerouac9]

Gruttadauria. I was excited for that signing as well.

Big red line!

 

[oaken1]

I'm not saying they don't exist. There just not many of them. It feels like maybe 1 good center develops a year when was drafted as a center. I could be at off since I actually haven't run the number, but it feels that way.

The thing is, historically, starting type guards were pulled from round 3...centers from round 4. ( by starting type i mean players who can develop into adequate starters in 3 years)
If a player showed potential to start immediately they could go in round 2... this was mostly because IOL were considered low value positions.
But the increasingly insane investments in quarterbacks is causing the nfl to value IOL more.
The deadly pass rushers no longer just come off the edge...as Cards fans we know all too well that when you face guys like AD multiple times a season you need IOL that can hold the pocket. Otherwise your 50mil QB will spend the season on IR and you aint winning squat.
So IOL guys move up in the draft. Probably wont see them in the top 5 like the best LT prospects but we do see the best prospects creep into the first round these days.

 

[oaken1]

If we get the number 1/2 pick, how good does he have to be to warrant not selecting a QB? He will have limited time to prove himself.

Even if he is pretty okay to good, we most likely won't be picking that high again or the QB class may not be great when/if we do.

He could just continue to play to pretty good in 2024 and beyond, but that's not good enough. He also gets injured every year/not consistent. While he didn't miss a lot of games, his injury has contributed to the collapse of two/three years.

2024 will be rough cap wise if we move on, but 2025 with a rookie salary QB would be nice. It's sorta about Murray and uncertainty, but also coupled with prime opportunity.

Imo... if kyler plays 8 games and our natural pick is top 6...we need to get one of those quarterbacks

 

[gmabel830]

Just do something - Frodo and the baby hobbits aren’t going to cut it!

 

[Goodyear Card]

I looked at the top 11 centers in the NFL by average salary to see if they played center or guard in college. Surprisingly, some of those players were making over $10m a year. It's hard to believe teams would invest so much money in a low value position.

One player I could not find any data on what position he played in college.

Of the 10 players I could find data on, 7 played mostly at center in college. Three played mostly guard although, two had limited time at center.

 

[gimpy]

I don’t understand why people think center is believed to be a low value position? They touch the ball and start the play to get the ball to your most important player, the quarterback, on every play.
That initial exchange is very important. Don’t they also normally assign our point or the blocking assignments?

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don’t understand why people think center is believed to be a low value position? They touch the ball and start the play to get the ball to your most important player, the quarterback, on every play.
That initial exchange is very important. Don’t they also normally assign our point or the blocking assignments?

And tough enough to hold teammate's accountable when they blow assignments

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don’t understand why people think center is believed to be a low value position? They touch the ball and start the play to get the ball to your most important player, the quarterback, on every play.
That initial exchange is very important. Don’t they also normally assign our point or the blocking assignments?

There are five OL and 3 or 4 DL. Who is usually the free OL?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I looked at the top 11 centers in the NFL by average salary to see if they played center or guard in college. Surprisingly, some of those players were making over $10m a year. It's hard to believe teams would invest so much money in a low value position.

A quarterback worth $50 million and a long snapper making $1.43 million — the highest paid player at every position in the NFL

Aaron Rodgers makes more money per season than any player in the NFL, but even non-quarterbacks can earn a pretty big payday in professional football.

www.insider.com

Only FB and special teams is lower than center.

One player I could not find any data on what position he played in college.

Of the 10 players I could find data on, 7 played mostly at center in college. Three played mostly guard although, two had limited time at center.

Link.

 

[BritCard]

There are five OL and 3 or 4 DL. Who is usually the free OL?

I was just going to say the same about college but more so. There's a tendency in college to play fronts you just never see in the NFL.

How many teams play a 5 man front in college? Not many. You probably see more 3 IDL fronts with no Edge. Centers in college spend much more time uncovered and looking for work.

And how many consistently see 330+ lb nose tackles? Many iDL in college are 290 max.

 

[BritCard]

Of the 10 players I could find data on, 7 played mostly at center in college. Three played mostly guard although, two had limited time at center.

I don't think this is right mate. The top guys are,

Kelce - Mostly played Guard. 12 games at C in 47 games.
Ragnow - Mostly Center
Jensen - Tackle. Never played Center in college.
Linsley - 2 seasons as backup G. One season (12 games) at C.
Kelly - Center
McCoy - Center
Roullier - 2 years as LG before 12 games at C as a Junior
Morse - Never played C. Tackle in college.
Bozeman - Mostly Center
Karras - Was a right guard in college. Never played C.

Of the top 10 guys 4 played the majority of their football at C in college. 3 never played C until the NFL and 3 had 12 games or less at C and more time at Guard. And of course until last year you could add Rodney Hudson in here as not played C in college.

I suppose it depends if you think there is a huge difference between 184 snaps at C in college vs 800. I personally don't considering many guards/tackles have converted to C in the NFL without a snap at C in college.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think this is right mate. The top guys are,

Kelce - Mostly played Guard. 12 games at C in 47 games.
Ragnow - Mostly Center
Jensen - Tackle. Never played Center in college.
Linsley - 2 seasons as backup G. One season (12 games) at C.
Kelly - Center
McCoy - Center
Roullier - 2 years as LG before 12 games at C as a Junior
Morse - Never played C. Tackle in college.
Bozeman - Mostly Center
Karras - Was a right guard in college. Never played C.

Of the top 10 guys 4 played the majority of their football at C in college. 3 never played C until the NFL and 3 had 12 games or less at C and more time at Guard. And of course until last year you could add Rodney Hudson in here as not played C in college.

I suppose it depends if you think there is a huge difference between 184 snaps at C in college vs 800. I personally don't considering many guards/tackles have converted to C in the NFL without a snap at C in college.

Hmm, did Roulliere, Linsey, and Kelce play center in their final season? If so, I think your argument is kinda purposefully disingenuous. Yes Goodyear said “mostly” but what I think he meant (he can correct me if I’m wrong) is that those guys came out as centers. In other words, they eventually found their spot as centers. It would be like a cornerback that eventually moved to safety his final year and found his calling. We wouldn’t consider him a corner. We’d consider him a safety. To do otherwise in this conversation is just trying to fit a narrative. A guy who played center for an entire season, and his final season, is a center. You can’t count him as a guy who “didn’t play center in college.” Just like you can’t really count a dude who played two games in his college career at as being a center. He really wasn’t. Either he was filling in during an emergency or he was tried at center and failed.

 

[TRW]

192 posts (193 now) and 8 pages on Froholdt and the inevitable devolution into the science of the determination of when does a center become a center and the value or lack thereof of a center. LOL Even a Gruttadauria citation. Gotta love it.

WHOEVER is the center next year, this team is going to suck (perhaps on a historic level). At least IMO. And, no, I will NOT eat any crow if they go 4-13 and that's proof they didn't suck on a historic level. LOL

This is the Way.

 

[Krangodnzr]

192 posts (193 now) and 8 pages on Froholdt and the inevitable devolution into the science of the determination of when does a center become a center and the value or lack thereof of a center. LOL Even a Gruttadauria citation. Gotta love it.

WHOEVER is the center next year, this team is going to suck (perhaps on a historic level). At least IMO. And, no, I will NOT eat any crow if they go 4-13 and that's proof they didn't suck on a historic level. LOL

This is the Way.

No way this will be true. This years team would beat the snot out of a number of Cardinals teams of the past.

 

[TRW]

No way this will be true. This years team would beat the snot out of a number of Cardinals teams of the past.

Perhaps.

 

[juza76]

8 pages about this player

 

[Goodyear Card]

No way this will be true. This years team would beat the snot out of a number of Cardinals teams of the past.

Unfortunately, they are not playing past Cardinal teams.

 

[BritCard]

8 pages about this player

To be fair very little is about the player

 

[AZCB34]

Things are getting weird around here. A couple Raynoch Thompson mentions…aGruttadauria mention. Good grief the mental and psychological damage done to Cards fans

 

[AZCB34]

Stoney Case