Can the Suns win with this version of Ayton?

[82CardsGrad]

Just curious how you all feel about how Ayton has played thus far this season, and whether it's good enough to get this team over the hump? Or, does it even matter?

 

[Proximo]

Just curious how you all feel about how Ayton has played thus far this season, and whether it's good enough to get this team over the hump? Or, does it even matter?

I feel he has played almost exactly as he did in the playoffs.

Was I hoping he would have developed a few dribble moves - yes. Is he good enough for us to win with him sure. Only one or two plays a game in two games were the difference between us winning it all last year or not.

But even if he does not improve at all - there are 8 or 9 other players on the team all capable of improving so he is not the only factor by a long shot. For instance Bookers improved 3 point percentage so far this year is a huge bonus, but Crowders worse percentage is a negative.

And we now have McGee which means we have a legit replacement for him if he has one of his disapearing act games.

 

[elindholm]

Another way of phrasing this question is, why did the Suns blow a 2-0 lead in the Finals? To me there are three answers:

1. Inexperience and/or choking. Remember, when the playoffs started, there was a lot of talk about how almost none of the Suns core had postseason experience, and that maybe they wouldn't be psychologically ready. Instead, they were, right up to the moment when the trophy was in their grasp. Then they lost their confidence, especially on the offensive end, and showed exactly the imprecision and tentativeness that we thought they'd dodged.

2. Inability or unwillingness to compete with Antetokounmpo. Sure, he's a great player who had a great series, but there's a reason that he posted historical numbers instead of merely excellent ones.

3. Lack of an inside offensive game. Paul and Booker were stymied by Holiday and Middleton, each of whom is longer, stronger, and more athletic than his Suns counterpart. The Suns needed to counter in the paint, and they couldn't.

#1 should get better on its own. #2 will be a little better if Ain'tn has a backup, which he didn't in the Finals. But #3 isn't getting better until Ain'tn makes it his responsibility, or else a PF with a legitimate post game falls into the Suns' laps.

 

[Finito]

Can we win with this version of Ayton? Aren’t we on a 16 game win streak?

And ranked #2 in defense

 

[Chaplin]

Another way of phrasing this question is, why did the Suns blow a 2-0 lead in the Finals? To me there are three answers:

1. Inexperience and/or choking. Remember, when the playoffs started, there was a lot of talk about how almost none of the Suns core had postseason experience, and that maybe they wouldn't be psychologically ready. Instead, they were, right up to the moment when the trophy was in their grasp. Then they lost their confidence, especially on the offensive end, and showed exactly the imprecision and tentativeness that we thought they'd dodged.

2. Inability or unwillingness to compete with Antetokounmpo. Sure, he's a great player who had a great series, but there's a reason that he posted historical numbers instead of merely excellent ones.

3. Lack of an inside offensive game. Paul and Booker were stymied by Holiday and Middleton, each of whom is longer, stronger, and more athletic than his Suns counterpart. The Suns needed to counter in the paint, and they couldn't.

#1 should get better on its own. #2 will be a little better if Ain'tn has a backup, which he didn't in the Finals. But #3 isn't getting better until Ain'tn makes it his responsibility, or else a PF with a legitimate post game falls into the Suns' laps.

Wow, no mention of injuries? CP3's hand was pretty much useless. That isn't a reason we blew the 2-0 lead?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Wow, no mention of injuries? CP3's hand was pretty much useless. That isn't a reason we blew the 2-0 lead?

I was there in Milwaukee...... It was a huge problem. So was Bookers hammy and nose.

So depressing.

As far as Ayton...... I wish he dunked like Cam and fought like JaVale. That Giannis block happened right in front of me and although amazing...... It never happens if DA goes hard to the cup. Not Amare hard, but harder for sure. Otherwise...... he can get it done IMO.

And I'm starting to come around that we hold all the leverage with DA in negotiations this summer. He may not cost us the full max and, honestly, he doesn't fully deserve to be on Book's level IMO.

 

[Phrazbit]

We came within a possession (in 2 separate games) of playing a finals game 7 at home... We're currently 17-3. I think it is pretty obvious we CAN win with this version of Ayton.

If he improves, especially on offense it will be much easier to do so.

 

[Mainstreet]

Can we win with this version of Ayton? Aren’t we on a 16 game win streak?

And ranked #2 in defense

JaVale McGee is a huge part of the winning streak with Deandre Ayton missing 6 games... all wins.

Also let's not forget the Suns lost Dario Saric in the first game against the Bucks.

 

[Finito]

JaVale McGee is a huge part of the winning streak with Deandre Ayton missing 6 games... all wins.

Also let's not forget the Suns lost Dario Saric in the first game against the Bucks.

Everybody is a huge part of this streak. Hell even Frank bailed us out at one point.

This team is playing great

 

[Finito]

Wow, no mention of injuries? CP3's hand was pretty much useless. That isn't a reason we blew the 2-0 lead?

Right. Our all NBA MVP caliber PG couldn’t even get the ball over half court and was fumbling the ball at times. That’s why we didn’t win it all.

Even with that we came damn close

 

[Suns_fan69]

JaVale McGee is a huge part of the winning streak with Deandre Ayton missing 6 games... all wins.

Also let's not forget the Suns lost Dario Saric in the first game against the Bucks.

I read this somewhere so had to look it up to confirm, but of the regular rotation players, McGee has the highest +/- per 100 possessions: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2022.html (under Play-by-Play)

I'm not going to pretend I understand all the nuances of that stat, but it does confirm to me that he's been a massive pickup this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I read this somewhere so had to look it up to confirm, but of the regular rotation players, McGee has the highest +/- per 100 possessions: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2022.html (under Play-by-Play)

I'm not going to pretend I understand all the nuances of that stat, but it does confirm to me that he's been a massive pickup this year.

It's not even necessary to check stats. McGee passes the eye test.

The Suns are generally a much better team with him at center.

 

[Finito]

It's not even necessary to check stats. McGee passes the eye test.

The Suns are generally a much better team with him at center.

I agree

 

[Proximo]

It's not even necessary to check stats. McGee passes the eye test.

The Suns are generally a much better team with him at center.

Are you saying better than Ayton?

I think they are close, but when motivated Ayton shows up, that lineup is better.

 

[Mainstreet]

Are you saying better than Ayton?

I think they are close, but when motivated Ayton shows up, that lineup is better.

I find myself more comfortable with McGee on the court unless Ayton is clicking.

 

[TJ]

I cant open an Ayton thread without being scorched by all the hawt takes

 

[TJ]

This topic is kind of silly for many reasons:

1. Yes, we can win with this "current version" of Ayton. 16 game winning streak says enough
2. If the team was willing to unlock a different version of Ayton, it'd be in a better place. Using 75% of his ability is a waste of a resource, and Ayton knows this.
3. Without Ayton, we dont get out of the first round of the playoffs, this year and last.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was the X factor last night, him and CP3.

 

[Covert Rain]

Another way of phrasing this question is, why did the Suns blow a 2-0 lead in the Finals? To me there are three answers:

1. Inexperience and/or choking. Remember, when the playoffs started, there was a lot of talk about how almost none of the Suns core had postseason experience, and that maybe they wouldn't be psychologically ready. Instead, they were, right up to the moment when the trophy was in their grasp. Then they lost their confidence, especially on the offensive end, and showed exactly the imprecision and tentativeness that we thought they'd dodged.

2. Inability or unwillingness to compete with Antetokounmpo. Sure, he's a great player who had a great series, but there's a reason that he posted historical numbers instead of merely excellent ones.

3. Lack of an inside offensive game. Paul and Booker were stymied by Holiday and Middleton, each of whom is longer, stronger, and more athletic than his Suns counterpart. The Suns needed to counter in the paint, and they couldn't.

#1 should get better on its own. #2 will be a little better if Ain'tn has a backup, which he didn't in the Finals. But #3 isn't getting better until Ain'tn makes it his responsibility, or else a PF with a legitimate post game falls into the Suns' laps.

Antetokounmpo is an MVP and one of the most dominate players in the league. Most teams night in and night out couldn't stop him. Once Ayton went to the bench the teams +/- and paint defense dropped off a cliff. The gameplan was brilliant. They went at Ayton to get him to use fouls which forced him to the bench at times during games. Had we had McGee last year? That strategy wouldn't have worked.

Ayton is #2 in paint touches among centers. The Suns are the 6th best points paint team in the NBA right now. They are only a tenth of a point away from cracking the top 5. To put that into perspective. They were #22 last season. Only Washington, Sacramento, Charlotte, Memphis and San Antonio are better scoring in the paint. They are the #6 team in defense in the paint. #3 doesn't apply this season. Getting a PF though would shore up one area we need help in. Eliminating second chance points. The Suns are near the bottom of the NBA.