A glance at the season

The season

  • Great

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Great

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • OK

    Votes: 12 46.2%
  • Bad

    Votes: 13 50.0%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Carolinacacti

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Posts
2,247
Reaction score
1,235
Location
Charlotte NC
This is the End. Started bad with Ayton, Crowder and Monty. Ended bad with all............? Savor BS was Nice break from broken team. Book gets hurt early and Paul, Johnson, Mikal and Ayton can't win. Craig looks good and Bench looks good with Lee, Jock and Ish. Payne most of year.. Booker comes back playing realy well. Hopefully people notice how well Book played to get the Suns in the playoffs. New owner and big trade. Was it right or wrong? Durant looked old no doubt about it. But Denver is good, what now
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,891
With limited resources we need to rebuild the entire roster, outside of Durant and Booker.

Durant is going to be 35 next year. The task of building a championship roster around those 2 before Durant's wheels fall of seems like a large one.

Without question, we're going to get a new coach... probably Nick Nurse, Bud or Dwayne Casey.

Hopefully them and, be it James Jones, the fool Isiah Thomas, or whoever runs the front office, can do some really amazing work.

Contention is not outside the realm of possibility, but it is going to require some great coaching and roster construction... and Durant getting more durable.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,891
I'm calling it a night, I'm sorry for my barrage of anger tonight.

I hope the Ishbia can find the right people to salvage this situation and I do think there is a chance that it can happen.

But... my posts are probably going to have some bile attached for a bit.

I calls em like I sees em. Hopefully I sees some good this summer.
 

DJ Tabooh

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Posts
1,077
Reaction score
881
Location
Austin, TX
I'm calling it a night, I'm sorry for my barrage of anger tonight.

I hope the Ishbia can find the right people to salvage this situation and I do think there is a chance that it can happen.

But... my posts are probably going to have some bile attached for a bit.

I calls em like I sees em. Hopefully I sees some good this summer.
I hear you. Just disappointed. Thought this team learned from last year…we didn’t. 81 points given up at the half is inexcusable. Bad turnovers. Best 2 players laying duds…very disappointing end to the season.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
34,262
Reaction score
19,774
Location
South Bay
Any season with this talent that doesn’t win a natty is bad. I’m done with any season that ends title-less
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,967
Reaction score
5,157
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Got to start with the head coach. Does not have a cohesive team. Going to be lots of changes with the new owner. Stay tuned.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Posts
115
Reaction score
134
Location
Chandler
Looking at the other playoff teams, I have little hope for this team
Agree.

I wanted KD to work, but as you see in my threads I thought long-term this was a bad deal. Not just for his age, but because we gave up Bridges. Cam Johnson was hot and cold.
When you look at the loss of Crowder (I get it, you can't keep someone who doesn't want to be here) and Bridges, two key defenders were lost.
I think (could be wrong but we only held Denver to 100 or less only one time, and we lost that one. The biggest issue is our D. Been sayin' it and sayin' it.
Ayton does NOT warrant a spot because his D is too weak, his O rebounding non-existent, and his energy level (overall) low.

Paul and KD will be quite old and I can't see us keeping Paul. But because of his weaknesses, I can't see us keeping Ayton either. I think you have a very tough time but have to rebuild around Book and KD. All others are on the block, and we won't get much value for anyone.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,310
Reaction score
15,457
Any season with this talent that doesn’t win a natty is bad. I’m done with any season that ends title-less
To me this was one of the least talented "teams" to win a round in the playoffs in quite a while. Top heavy, and almost nothing else.

Most good teams came close to matching us at the top. But most teams had us beat badly at the 3rd starter, 4th starter, 5th starter, 1st off the bench, 2nd off the bench and probably 3rd off the bench too. Yeah, our 4th and 5th guys off the bench were probably better than a lot of other team's 4th and 5th bench guys but that doesn't win you many ball games. Throw in the coach and his staff and you have the makings for a prime time basketball disaster. Which we delivered.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,310
Reaction score
15,457
I'm calling it a night, I'm sorry for my barrage of anger tonight.

I hope the Ishbia can find the right people to salvage this situation and I do think there is a chance that it can happen.

But... my posts are probably going to have some bile attached for a bit.

I calls em like I sees em. Hopefully I sees some good this summer.
I'm trying to dispel my anger through thinly veiled humor. It's not working. But yeah, I'm still holding out a little hope that we can make something out of the mess we've created.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
35,348
Reaction score
13,712
Location
Arizona
Agree.

I wanted KD to work, but as you see in my threads I thought long-term this was a bad deal. Not just for his age, but because we gave up Bridges. Cam Johnson was hot and cold.
When you look at the loss of Crowder (I get it, you can't keep someone who doesn't want to be here) and Bridges, two key defenders were lost.
I think (could be wrong but we only held Denver to 100 or less only one time, and we lost that one. The biggest issue is our D. Been sayin' it and sayin' it.
Ayton does NOT warrant a spot because his D is too weak, his O rebounding non-existent, and his energy level (overall) low.

Paul and KD will be quite old and I can't see us keeping Paul. But because of his weaknesses, I can't see us keeping Ayton either. I think you have a very tough time but have to rebuild around Book and KD. All others are on the block, and we won't get much value for anyone.
To me this season's failure was a culmination of things over multiple seasons that lead up to this year's failure:

-James Jones failure to use MLE
-James Jones not taking the draft seriously
-James Jones not shoring up spots PG and PF (although I think Sarver had hand in that).
-Monty's repeated stubbornness that seemingly had no logic at all (i.e., force feeding players like Shamet)
-Monty never settling on lineups
-Monty's lack of in adjustments (offensive sets, defensive sets, in game strategy)
-Monty getting out-coached
-Monty not getting along with guys like McGee, Crowder, Ayton (although the Ayton one I don't put just on Monty)
-Ayton who was our shot to establish a long-term core disappointing and not living up to his draft position to me is one of the biggest issues
-Having a core that mentally folded two years running (including Book) which forced the hand of the organization to make changes as the West became more competitive

If you think about it, it's been a comedy of missteps over the last 3 years.
 
Last edited:

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,310
Reaction score
15,457
To me this season's failure was a culmination of things over multiple seasons that lead up to this year's failure:

-James Jones failure to use MLE
-James Jones not taking the draft seriously
-James Jones not shoring up spots PG and PF (although I think Sarver had hand in that).
-Monty's repeated stubbornness that seemingly had no logic at all (i.e., force feeding players like Shamet)
-Monty never settling on lineups
-Monty's lack of adjustments
-Monty getting outcoached
-Monty not getting along with guys like McGee, Crowder, Ayton (although the Ayton one I don't put just on Monty)
-Ayton who was our shot to establish a long-term core disappointing and not living up to his draft position to me is one of the biggest issues
-Having a core that mentally folded two years running (including Book) which forced the hand of the organization to make changes as the West became more competitive

If you think about it, it's been a comedy of missteps over the last 3 years.
I'm not sure how many of the missteps belong on JJ's door rather than Sarver's given his control over the purse strings and the fact he frequently made decisions that should have fallen to underlings. But, for us, it amounts to the same thing. So, that said, I agree there's been a bunch of mistakes over the past 3 years. And yet, we're still suffering from the far worse mistakes we made the previous several years.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
35,348
Reaction score
13,712
Location
Arizona
I'm not sure how many of the missteps belong on JJ's door rather than Sarver's given his control over the purse strings and the fact he frequently made decisions that should have fallen to underlings. But, for us, it amounts to the same thing. So, that said, I agree there's been a bunch of mistakes over the past 3 years. And yet, we're still suffering from the far worse mistakes we made the previous several years.
The mistakes the previous season and the ongoing issues led to this season IMO. One doesn't happen without the things that happened previous seasons.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,568
Reaction score
11,658
Location
Tempe, AZ
-Monty never settling on lineups
-Monty's lack of adjustments

These 2 seem to contradict themselves. So many people called for Monty to make adjustments and play guys like TJ, Ross, etc and when he did he was lambasted because those guys don't play defense and then they'd say Monty didn't make any adjustments. Adjustments to the rotation are adjustments. I do think he could have established more continuity but I don't think there were a lack of adjustments. There were a lack of quality options to make good adjustments. When you're forced to play 7th or 8th men as starters for 30+ minutes a night against the 1 seed, it's not going to turn out well.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,310
Reaction score
15,457
The mistakes the previous season and the ongoing issues led to this season IMO. One doesn't happen without the things that happened previous seasons.
Maybe you misunderstood me? Otherwise, I don't get the point of this post as I've not intended to imply that I disagree with what you said here.

Anyway, I agree there have been a lot of mistakes the past few years. I just think the ones that occurred in the years before JJ were even more damaging. And the screwups that normally fall under the purview of the GM the past 19 years may well be on the GM but knowing what we know about the owner, it's a coin toss to call where the blame should be placed on each of these mistakes.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,055
Reaction score
53,728
These 2 seem to contradict themselves. So many people called for Monty to make adjustments and play guys like TJ, Ross, etc and when he did he was lambasted because those guys don't play defense and then they'd say Monty didn't make any adjustments. Adjustments to the rotation are adjustments. I do think he could have established more continuity but I don't think there were a lack of adjustments. There were a lack of quality options to make good adjustments. When you're forced to play 7th or 8th men as starters for 30+ minutes a night against the 1 seed, it's not going to turn out well.

I'm not even sure if the Suns if 7th or 8th men who played as starters qualify to be ranked that high.
 
Last edited:

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
35,348
Reaction score
13,712
Location
Arizona
These 2 seem to contradict themselves. So many people called for Monty to make adjustments and play guys like TJ, Ross, etc and when he did he was lambasted because those guys don't play defense and then they'd say Monty didn't make any adjustments. Adjustments to the rotation are adjustments. I do think he could have established more continuity but I don't think there were a lack of adjustments. There were a lack of quality options to make good adjustments. When you're forced to play 7th or 8th men as starters for 30+ minutes a night against the 1 seed, it's not going to turn out well.
They don't. They are two different things. Let me clarify. When I say adjustments I mean to strategy. Offensive sets. Defensive sets. Strategy in game. I updated and clarified it above.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,655
Reaction score
54,308
Location
SoCal
These 2 seem to contradict themselves. So many people called for Monty to make adjustments and play guys like TJ, Ross, etc and when he did he was lambasted because those guys don't play defense and then they'd say Monty didn't make any adjustments. Adjustments to the rotation are adjustments. I do think he could have established more continuity but I don't think there were a lack of adjustments. There were a lack of quality options to make good adjustments. When you're forced to play 7th or 8th men as starters for 30+ minutes a night against the 1 seed, it's not going to turn out well.
Imo changing lineups is the easiest and least thoughtful “adjustment” a coach can make. It’s just hoping different oriole in the same plan will lead to better outcomes. It works once in awhile, but it’s not an analytical solution and it’s reactive. That’s passive strategy. Last night in the postgame comments jokic stated that they made us go where they wanted us defensively. Which away from our spots. You’re never going to win when your strategy allows the opposition to dictate your gameplan. Imo that’s Monty in a nutshell.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,655
Reaction score
54,308
Location
SoCal
I'm not even the Suns if the 7th or 8th men who played as starters qualify to be ranked that high.
I think we have two stars. A declining starter. An adequate starter. A couple 7th men (Craig, Payne) and a bunch of 8th men. We are missing a starter and a legit 6th man imo.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
35,348
Reaction score
13,712
Location
Arizona
Imo changing lineups is the easiest and least thoughtful “adjustment” a coach can make. It’s just hoping different oriole in the same plan will lead to better outcomes. It works once in awhile, but it’s not an analytical solution and it’s reactive. That’s passive strategy. Last night in the postgame comments jokic stated that they made us go where they wanted us defensively. Which away from our spots. You’re never going to win when your strategy allows the opposition to dictate your gameplan. Imo that’s Monty in a nutshell.
Yep...this is what I was referring to in terms of adjustments.
 

Skratchy_Seal

Registered
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Posts
492
Reaction score
160
Location
San Diego, CA
Looks like I’m the only one voting great. I would vote okay, but losing Sarver was such a big plus for me. I just hope for a great offseason and that Zeke’s role will never be more than just Ishbia’s courtside companion at the games.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
114,055
Reaction score
53,728
It's hard for me to put it into words, but this past season has been devastating for me as a Suns fan. I've had a hard time rationalizing the moves the Suns made or didn't make before the trade deadline.

For those that don't agree, that's fine. I'm only giving my opinion.

I thought the Suns had a good young team that could contend for years to come. Now that opportunity appears to be greatly reduced with the trade for Kevin Durant. The new CBA took care of that.

The Suns had the perfect mix of young players, draft picks (they had all of them) and expiring contracts to use to improve the team before the trade deadline and going forward, e.g., Crowder and Saric.

If the Suns could have traded for Kevin Durant and kept key players together, particularly Mikal Bridges, I could have lived with that. Actually, I wanted the Suns to trade for Durant earlier in the season but NEVER for what the Suns gave up in trade.

The Suns grossly overpaid for Durant even if other teams might have given more.

I've heard, well, if Bridges wasn't included in the trade, the Suns couldn't have traded for Durant. Then fine, I would never have made the trade. The Suns did not have to push the panic button. There are often different paths to the same destination. Ask the Lakers.

I viewed Mikal Bridges as a rising star and Cam Johnson as a smooth shooting power forward with athleticism. They were starters. The Suns should have been dealing from a position of power, not weakness. The Suns even traded FOUR unprotected first round picks for a player who will turn 35 next season who has a history of injury.

The Suns closed their eyes to other possible trades like Reggie Jackson or Bones Hyland. Jackson was a bought out while Hyland was traded for two second round picks. Mason Plumless, Jarred Vanderbilt and Thomas Bryant were other trade possibilities. I'm sure there were many more.

The Suns were not that far away from contending for a championship both last season and into the future.

Now it feels like they could easily be years and years away, as they may have to piecemeal a team together around perhaps only a couple of players. Chris Paul and Deandre Ayton could well be gone.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
542,789
Posts
5,313,412
Members
6,290
Latest member
stbmd
Top