The Drums Continue to Beat

[GuernseyCard]

Cool. It also tells me that is in the past.. and the NFL is changing. Whether we like it or not. If the guy can play football, he can play football. I think most understand this about Murray. Whether it pans out..no one knows. But I don't think anyone can discredit the fact that this kid can play at a high level regardless of height. Jmo

Yes. He can play at a 'high' College level, not to be confused with the NFL.

Feel free to ignore the historic evidence, people with skin in game aren't.

 

[GatorAZ]

I feel like a whirling dervish and I’m getting dizzy. I did a little personal info gathering and reached out to most of the guys with whom I spoke a couple weeks ago. At that point they were convinced the Cards would take Murray. Now the majority has changed their opinion. They now think the Cards (unless overwhelmed by a trade offer) will go defense. They’re divided between Bosa and Williams. Way back I said I thought Williams would fit the need better. However I wavered because several people I really respect feel Bosa is far and away the biggest impact player. If I’m picking I still go Williams, but I’d be happy with Bosa. I could live with a great trade but only if it nets a potentially impactful defensive player.

I do believe things can change once you start to develop a relationship. Prior to last week Kingsbury had yet to work with Josh (he did know Murray a little bit)... Now they’ve been working and getting to know each other. There isn’t a more important relationship in sports than HC/QB so they have to be comfortable with each other.

I was reading about QWilliams not playing much before last season because he needed to gain significant bulk. He moves great for his weight but isn’t naturally cut like Bosa. How hard will he need to work/eat to keep his weight from fluctuating for someone that big?

 

[football karma]

RG 3...horrible at avoiding hits.

in fairness for RG3: he hurt his knee on terrible FedEx field turf late in the season, and then attempted to play in the playoffs, and hurt the knee again (more seriously)

 

[az jam]

The real bottom line is that no one outside of the Cards big three (Bidwill, Keim, Kingsbury) know what the Cards will do with the pick. We will know when the pick is announced on draft day. This is a fact!!

 

[TheCardFan]

I was reading about QWilliams not playing much before last season because he needed to gain significant bulk. He moves great for his weight but isn’t naturally cut like Bosa. How hard will he need to work/eat to keep his weight from fluctuating for someone that big?

It was a position change. He was a DE and they suggested he bulk up and move to DT.

Excellent decision.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yup! The Bosa, Q, Oliver, Allen tape is outstanding and doesn't lie.

Agreed! They are awesome! I just hope we pick the guy with the higher positional value. That’s QB.

Keim has said he only takes QBs, Tackles, CBs, or Pass rushers with top picks. That would be one of either Q, Bosa, Murray, or Allen. No one knows who we value the most.

But hard data does tell us who would equal more wins, who can change more plays, and who has a better opportunity to influence the outcome of games on a more regular basis.

Again. QBs.


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[Solar7]

RG 3...horrible at avoiding hits. Which ultimately dimmed his lightbulb. Let's not forget how valued he was to start his career.
Tebow..no comparison. Never had the arm. The speed.

Fine, Michael Vick. Johnny Manziel. Vince Young. Marcus Mariota.

All guys with tantalizing, game changing speed that went at least in the first round, if not the top 5. They sure as hell didn't get there by "taking hits" in college. None were a success, at least not a game changing one.

One hit is all it takes when you're as small as Murray. The reality here is that we probably have to expect the guy to flash on the field and not put it together. It's a lack of sustained success, measurables, and attitude.

 

[TJ]

If we pass on Murray we deserve to stay at the bottom. A game changer like him comes around once a decade. The defensive players mentioned are certainly outstanding players but none of them have the game changing impact of KM. Rosen is a run of the mill QB like Smith or Tannenhill. KM could bring the Cards to exciting respectability immediately. I hope SK doesn't outthink himself on this one.

You’ll have to convince a lot of people that the diminutive QB is a generational player, because going into the draft, he was late-1st/early-2nd-round pick.

I’m not saying he won’t be good, but he has a number of red flags. Much less than Williams and Bosa

 

[TJ]

Cool. It also tells me that is in the past.. and the NFL is changing. Whether we like it or not. If the guy can play football, he can play football. I think most understand this about Murray. Whether it pans out..no one knows. But I don't think anyone can discredit the fact that this kid can play at a high level regardless of height. Jmo

You mean two months ago is too far in the past, when two tall, pocket passers were competing for the Super Bowl? @GuernseyCard is right. Half a century of evidence shows that the trend of pocket QBs being the norm isn’t changing anytime soon.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do believe things can change once you start to develop a relationship. Prior to last week Kingsbury had yet to work with Josh (he did know Murray a little bit)... Now they’ve been working and getting to know each other. There isn’t a more important relationship in sports than HC/QB so they have to be comfortable with each other.

If this is true, Kingsbury has gotten comfortable with Rosen, this changes the equation.

Then bring on the defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Mobile, electric heisman trophy winners that are supposed to be transcending talents:

RG3: The redskins traded the FARM because he was the next big thing.

Tebow: Mobile, super stud, heisman winning elite QB.

But Murrays hype machine is currently out of control. We'll see what happens when that settles down.

RG3 I’ll give you. Tebow, lol. I guess that’s “a lot” in some people’s world . . .

 

[dscher]

Yes. He can play at a 'high' College level, not to be confused with the NFL.

Feel free to ignore the historic evidence, people with skin in game aren't.

Just like Bosa and Williams...so they shouldnt be top picks either by that logic. Oh boy.

I'll feel free to ignore the fact that the game CAN change...and not be stuck in a conventional mindset. What people with skin in the game? I haven't seen anyone ignoring his talent, like you have..

 

[dscher]

The real bottom line is that no one outside of the Cards big three (Bidwill, Keim, Kingsbury) know what the Cards will do with the pick. We will know when the pick is announced on draft day. This is a fact!!

But if we can't bicker for the next 9 days what else will I do with my time...?!

 

[dscher]

Fine, Michael Vick. Johnny Manziel. Vince Young. Marcus Mariota.

All guys with tantalizing, game changing speed that went at least in the first round, if not the top 5. They sure as hell didn't get there by "taking hits" in college. None were a success, at least not a game changing one.

One hit is all it takes when you're as small as Murray. The reality here is that we probably have to expect the guy to flash on the field and not put it together. It's a lack of sustained success, measurables, and attitude.

....and all these guys don't have many comps to Murray. It's just not an apples to apples. imo. Weird how we leave out the one guy that looks like it would be his best comp. R Wilson. We only tend to focus on the negatives.. I get it. But we all know if this kid was 6 ft no one would have an issue.. or maybe they would. I have no clue anymore.. lol

 

[dscher]

You mean two months ago is too far in the past, when two tall, pocket passers were competing for the Super Bowl? @GuernseyCard is right. Half a century of evidence shows that the trend of pocket QBs being the norm isn’t changing anytime soon.

And? It changes in the fact that R Wilson and Drew Brees can be the exception nowadays. Like they've been and just like Murray can be . ...if you don't discount his talent. But the height is too much for some people. I get it.

 

[Solar7]

....and all these guys don't have many comps to Murray. It's just not an apples to apples. imo. Weird how we leave out the one guy that looks like it would be his best comp. R Wilson. We only tend to focus on the negatives.. I get it. But we all know if this kid was 6 ft no one would have an issue.. or maybe they would. I have no clue anymore.. lol

Dude. It's the overwhelming evidence. How are these guys not comps? Two highly athletic Heisman winners that went in the first round, who could "do it all" when it came to running and throwing. Two other guys who had insane running ability, that went in the top five, and never won anything of note, but were considered "game changers." Both in contention for the Heisman.

Like, how do you define comp? They need to be sub six-foot? Because the Wilson comp isn't working for me. He played for multiple years, in multiple organizations, had obvious leadership abilities, and the only real question was his height. That's essentially one factor, compared to the 4-5 Murray has going against him. And he went in the third round, not first overall.

If this kid was 6'0, I'd still have a lot of questions, and that's the problem.

 

[az jam]

But if we can't bicker for the next 9 days what else will I do with my time...?!

Try drinking!!! Just kidding. But it sure has been a whirlwind on trying to guess what will happened on draft day.

 

[dscher]

Dude. It's the overwhelming evidence. How are these guys not comps? Two highly athletic Heisman winners that went in the first round, who could "do it all" when it came to running and throwing. Two other guys who had insane running ability, that went in the top five, and never won anything of note, but were considered "game changers." Both in contention for the Heisman.

Like, how do you define comp? They need to be sub six-foot? Because the Wilson comp isn't working for me. He played for multiple years, in multiple organizations, had obvious leadership abilities, and the only real question was his height. That's essentially one factor, compared to the 4-5 Murray has going against him. And he went in the third round, not first overall.

If this kid was 6'0, I'd still have a lot of questions, and that's the problem.

I don't know man.. I watch highlights of Murray and see Russell Wilson. It's just the way he plays. That's what I go off with comps. I use the eyeball test...and trust me I've seen enough of that guy while cussing him out on my TV. It's eerily similar...to me at least.

 

[BigRedRage]

RG3 I’ll give you. Tebow, lol. I guess that’s “a lot” in some people’s world . . .

Just 2 off the top of my head.

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[Timm Rosenbach]

You’ll have to convince a lot of people that the diminutive QB is a generational player, because going into the draft, he was late-1st/early-2nd-round pick.

I’m not saying he won’t be good, but he has a number of red flags. Much less than Williams and Bosa

And what if he gets the heck knocked out of him during his first season and creates drama with a “will he play baseball?” Scenario. Is Bidwill then looking at Justin Herbert next season after another horrific season? I will be shocked if Bidwill puts all of his chips (and reputation) on Murray

 

[bojack]

Cards don't know what they are going to do until the chips hit the table. My best guess is they want to trade down by selling Murray #1 but there really isn't anyone other than Raiders or Giants I think that could and want to pull it off and Raiders are already in position to snag him if Cards don't. I don't think Cards want Murray, but would take him if they could sell Rosen high enough. But getting their price is a challenge there as well. And you have to play it down the middle... Try to play up Murray and it drops Rosen leverage, play down Murray like Rosen is solid and their trade down leverage drops.

Cards basically have the worst situation possible to end up with the #1 because the best outcomes to create leverage for what you really want (a draft pick haul) are untenable.

I have a feeling that Cards are going D at #1 overall, no trade down happens because they don't have the leverage. If they take Murray it is because they got a hell of a deal for Rosen making it feel like it was basically a wash to exchange them.

I truly don't believe any franchise is looking at Murray as a lock to their future franchise QB and instead see it more of a long odds gamble. Great if it pays, but with a lot better chance it doesn't, so bet accordingly.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Just like Bosa and Williams...so they shouldnt be top picks either by that logic. Oh boy.

I'll feel free to ignore the fact that the game CAN change...and not be stuck in a conventional mindset. What people with skin in the game? I haven't seen anyone ignoring his talent, like you have..

You seem to think that Mini-me is the prototype for this so-called modern game; he isn't. The prototypes are Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck : pocket passers who can throw from the edge and gain ground with their legs, if need be.

Rosen is closer to this ideal than KM.

 

[oaken1]

You seem to think that Mini-me is the prototype for this so-called modern game; he isn't. The prototypes are Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck : pocket passers who can throw from the edge and gain ground with their legs, if need be.

Rosen is closer to this ideal rhan KM.

Ssshhhhhh with the facts


some people just play too freaking much madden on their xbox

 

[Southpaw]

And somebody can squash Murray also.Acting like QBs don`t get hit is nonsense.He was sacked 18 times last season.That was in college with a OLINE with 4 draft picks protecting him.

In a conference that can't even spell defense.

 

[slanidrac16]

Here’s what I’ve observed on this board. The Murray backers believe he will come into this league and the nfl will part like the Red Sea as we coast thought the season. It won’t happen that way. Murray will go through a rookie season just like every other qb before him. Pass attempts to Receivers that look open in college will at times be picked off. Running lanes will close way faster than they did in college. What is under estimated is Rosen has gone through the rookie baptism. The game will/ should start to slow down. He would be put in a much better and more friendly offense and an improved defense. Kingsbury has said over and over he would play to his qb’s strength. Could Murray be the next Wilson? Maybe. But in a 100 years of nfl football there has been only one Wilson up to now. What are the odds?